Are IGW REIT’s distributions sustainable ? Is this a good investment ?
I would say: NO.
My opinion: If you have an investment: get out as the units are worth far less than $1 because the pricing NAV is not the real market net asset value (NAV). The money paid to you over the last 2-4 years has been a return of capital and has eroded your asset value. Invest $100,000 and get 9% per year for 2 years, and then get 50 cents back (unless you get out now). What a great investment ! My opinion: get out while a buck is a buck.
Why?
I have an accounting background, but it is getting a bit rusty in my old age. Let’s look at
- very high fees,
- unsustainable distributions from cash-flow,
- inter company exposure and
- very high interest rates.
Base of analysis and page numbers are here http://www.bcsc.bc.ca/eservices/Inc/ViewDoc.asp?DocNum=V7G3K6IBK7W1M7KEN6Q1J7PDV7K3&s=False
1. The fees are very high:
on page 151: fees of $5.2m in 2009 and over $7.8m in 2010 .. on revenues of about $25m in 2010 and $15m in 2009 (see page 157). Is this a good investment ? Are these fees reasonable ?
2. Unsustainable 9% Distributions
(page 159) shows cash-flow of about $5m, which is around 3% on investor investments of about $167m (page 45). The distribution is sustainable only with asset sales which is happening a lot lately in the IGW REIT.
Page 19 shows that distributions are from re-financing or asset sales to a large degree and not from operations.
Asset sales lowers equity for investors, namely net asset value, yet with League it always goes up, even in a recession ! That is why they use the legally correct term “pricing NAV” which has nothing to do with real world asset values !
Magic ? Deception ? Legal ? A scam ? Or clever accounting ? Or brilliant marketing ?
You decide !
3. Exposure to other LPs / Inter company loans
Exposure to Colwood LP:
Page 152: exchange of a class B units into a note. See here: In January 2010, REIT exchanged its Class B units of Colwood City Centre Limited Partnership for a promissory note. The exchange was recorded at the unit’s fair value on the transaction date; which resulted in REIT recognizing a gain of $7,828,824. The value of the promissory note is $18,432,362 and bears interest at a rate of 10% per annum. An incentive management fee of $1,567,576 was charged on this transaction by League Assets Corp., which is offset against the gain recorded. This fee is recorded in accounts payable at December 31, 2010.
A nice gain for the REIT, and a nice $1.5m fee for League Assets.
See my other post regarding Colwood LP .. with over $56m in unsecured loan outstanding. Using assets of $259m and liabilities (excluding $60m income priority units) of $128M (page 156) I arrive at equity of $131m. Deduct $56m in loans to Colwood LP I arrive at 50-60 cents on the dollar invested.
More meddling / exposure to the condo conversion project in Hamilton (page 151): During 2009 REIT sold Sundel Square, a mixed-use commercial building in Langley, British Columbia, and Wellington Suites and Rosewood Tower, residential apartment buildings in Hamilton, Ontario to IGW Residential Capital Limited Partnership, an entity under common management of League Assets Corp., for total proceeds of $38,407,000. The transactions were settled through the assumption of existing mortgages and establishment of inter-entity loans.
Deduct $10m or more in loans to this LP I arrive at less than 50 cents on the IGW REIT dollar invested.
4. High interest rates on some loans
Page 42:
Item 4.8 Firm Capital Credit Agreement
The Firm Capital Credit Facility of a maximum of $6,234,017.47 was made available on August 30, 2011, under a credit agreement dated August 30, 2011, between Firm Capital as the lender and IGW Public
LP and IGW Public GP (“Firm Capital Credit Facility Borrowers”) as joint and several borrowers. The Firm Capital Credit Facility matures on September 1, 2012, unless extended pursuant to the Firm Capital
Credit Agreement. Interest at the rate of the greater of Prime Rate plus six percent (6%) per annum and twelve percent (12%) per annum is compounded monthly and payable monthly in arrears.
see page 153:
Subsequent to year end, REIT repaid loans payable from an institutional investor of $5,750,000. In order to pay these loans, REIT secured three additional sources of financing. A loan payable of $1,051,000 bearing interest at 11% is secured by units of Partners Real Estate Investment Trust and is due on July 28, 2011. In addition, PSUs of $537,250 were issued, bearing interest at 11% and due on July 28, 2011. A mortgage for $4,000,000, interest only, bearing interest at the greater of 12% per annum and prime plus 6%, secured by first, second and third mortgages on the portfolio, is due in April 2013.
leaguereviewed 
http://www.league.ca/projects/listing
I get a real charge out of that asshole parkinson still using the league web site that still advertises the league projects
I am watching with great interest the BCSC website and all of the new content re: InvestRight. It is as though they took League’s playbook and made a giant list of everything to watch out for (play by play, including the way scams advertise) when ferreting out a scam. Rather than taking the scammers away in handcuffs, they are going to white wash the entire thing, blame it on investors who did not do their d.d., and say ‘we tried our best’. Unfortunately for people like me, League has poisoned the investment well in Canada. It will be a long time before any investor takes a serious look at Real Estate syndication. Believe me, all of the rules are about to get much stricter, and BCSC will be unscathed.
AND, BCSC doesn’t have to use any of their own (taxpayer funded) resources to investigate League thoroughly…the investors are footing that bill. I am sure that just one look at doing what PWC is doing now (and will continue to do for many more months), made BCSC quail. They knew what a mess there was, and they knew how many investors were involved. We must demand far more from this (very rich) Public body.
I am sure this article will make you sick –
League Extends Protection for Member-Partners
VICTORIA, BRITISH COLUMBIA–(Marketwire – July 23, 2009) – League Assets Corporation – the world’s Intergenerational Wealth(TM) Institution – announced today that it has taken another step in safeguarding the capital of its investors and protecting them against acts of internal malfeasance with the purchase of Executive Liability and Employee Fidelity insurance coverage.
League manages more than $300 million worth of private real estate investments on behalf of its 1,700-plus Member-Partners – its term for private investors. “We acquired this coverage,” said Emanuel Arruda, Founding Partner, “not because we had to do it, but because it was the right thing to do.”
“We’re all aware of recent cases where certain investment managers have carried out fraud on a massive scale, and have hurt a lot of people in the process,” said Mr. Arruda. “Our insurance will protect our Member-Partners against the possibility of fraud carried out by employees or by parties associated with League. While we have the greatest faith in our employees, these plans will provide our investors with an additional layer of comfort.”
“What this also means,” added Adam Gant, League’s other Founding Partner, “is that the insurance underwriters, both neutral third-parties, have taken a hard look at our business policies, practices and standards and decided that they have enough confidence in us to insure us.”
Both insurance policies were obtained from Aon Reed Stenhouse, a global provider of insurance coverage. It has some 37,000 professionals worldwide and provides insurance and human resources consulting services.
This action, said Mr. Arruda, is fully in accordance with the Credo that guides all League’s endeavors. “We believe our word is our bond. It should always be worthy of trust.”
“Acquiring this coverage is part of our commitment to our Member-Partners: to do for them, what we would have others do for us,” said Mr. Gant. “If we can further their peace of mind, then we’ll have done our job.”
Victoria-based League Assets Corp. manages the IGW REIT, one of North America’s fastest growing private Real Estate Investment Trusts, comprising a portfolio of Canadian commercial, industrial, multi-family residential properties with combined assets approaching $300 million. The Trust exists to find, acquire, improve, and manage real estate properties on behalf of its Member-Partners. Combined with its other investment pools, League is currently managing and developing assets with approximate build-out values totaling $2-billion.
For more information, download The Blue Book of Real Estate Syndication and Company Backgrounder from http://www.league.ca.
There are risks associated with any investment. Read the Offering Memorandum for requisite disclosure.
For more information, please contact
League Assets Corporation
Emanuel Arruda
1-877-772-8836
info@league.ca
http://www.league.ca
so does that mean if we can prove fraud we can get paid out ?
did they keep their premiums up to date?
Again, it is all marketing bullshit. They took out directors insurance. They told you it was to protect you, but it wasn’t. It was to protect the company. This has been gone over in the past.
has anyone any idea where the scum bag arruda is at??
he,s probably back in brazil living the high life with our money
I see from the landlord rescue site a steering committee has been formed
does anyone know how many on this committee and what is their mandate?
I think there is 15 people on it. Basically anyone who volunteered. The first goal of the (Interim) steering committee is to get Fasken to share the list so that all investors can be contacted.
As the Investor Steering committee has not been organized for long, there is no contact information yet I can share. As soon as there is I will let everyone know.
would have liked to volunteer for it,however if 15 people is enough then thats fine if more are needed then let me know
Iam totally surprized that You have never supplied a email addess to be notified as like 100 of us already have?
someone commented that gant had let 80% of his staff go…….if this is the case why does he need $500,000 for payroll?
Probably for the executives: Minuttie, Routly, gant, arruda etc.
the whole bunch of them put together aint worth a dollar
one would think that guys like Minuttie,wallace,etc would simply move on and find a honest job? why do leaches keep trying to milk the cow and better yet why would a CCAA court deal allow this??
Don’t forget that they are all deeply involved in Partners REIT. Have you been watching the charts on that POS? These people are bottom feeding pond scum, with resumes similar to G and Mini G. Losers, thieves, crooks and liars. Oh, wait, I forgot: OUR WORD IS OUR BOND, OUR HONOUR IS OUR GLORY
well one good thing has come of this mess.we don’t have to read and or be subjected to Aruddas sickning Christmas message
A league Investor emailed a bunch of us investors and has made this claim?? anyone know what the heck hes talking about??
QUOTE:To date they have been successful in excluding several financially solid League entities from the CCAA proceedings
it would seem that they want to ditch the losers and keep the winners, one fund that i think makes them money is their solar fund out of ontario the other 6 im not sure of
another one I believe is the segregated debt which if you look gant bought into a liitle while ago
so one has to assume these are all stand alone identitys and do not involve reit or ipu monies?
right,I think another one is the eagle landing lp in chilliwack
We have a small investment in Seg. Debt II and it’s actually made us money (!), but not if we can’t get our principal back. We wonder if this and the other “stand-alone” things will eventually get sucked into the black hole of League, out of which nothing can escape. Who’s in charge of League’s very few viable entities now? Will we ever be able to get our money out?
as current management has done a very poor job of running the reit and other entities it should come as no suprise that if the same management is running these other entities the same results will apply
???????????????????
Fasken will NEVER ever give u this list as it will fall under our lame excuse federal privacey laws
everyone uses that excuse these days
I noticed that the Petitioner switched lawyers from Davis & Co. to Farris, Vaughn et al. Also in last motion to increase the debt on the Quadra properties to over $9.5 million Gant did not swear the affidavit but some person named John Alderson. Maybe Gant has no credibility to his own lawyers.
That Quadra property is another screw up. It looks like even if full it might generate an net income just enough to cover the first mortgage. If the net income is a little over $600,000/year and you use a cap rate of 5% you get a value of over $12 million but for that property in that area the real cap rate would be over 6 so there is zero equity. What is the cap rate in Victoria for those type of properties? In Oak Bay it is less than 5 according to some sales that I saw but the Quadra has a reputation even if refurbished and is not in a prime location. You supposedly can build another 60 plus units but given construction costs and the rents that is not feasible. Even if the land was free you can not construct more units and make money.
Allison is right that only secured creditors have a right to contest the CCAA however are not some of the investors in League secured. If so what is the investor’s lawyer doing, fouchez le chien.
The other thing we need to do is somehow post the court filings. The PWC site only posts the monitors filings I believe. For us to see the actual court records and files we would have to pay so as a group we need to make sure we have access to the court filings not just what PWC discloses.
Timbercreek should be the secured creditor contesting the CCAA as it has the most to lose.
Where can you buy a hajib in Victoria?
Why wouldn’t PWC post all the court records? I think they’ve posted all there are to post – what others could there be?
The PWC is one sided. Currently not on the PWC site are 3 responses to the League Petition, various changes of solicitosr, and court transcripts
Can you share those docs? ajmbconsulting@gmail.com
Could you tell us all where to see those documents? I don’t know where even to begin looking.
As Nov 18 (when Gant is scheduled to submit his proposal) approaches, I’m predicting he will say to creditors, “Renegotiate the terms or League files for bankruptcy.” League won’t be able to secure enough, or any, lower interest financing for restructuring, nor will it ever sell another investment product. And League is nothing without sales of investment products. Therefore, the writing on the wall is that League has no future, and even Gant can read that.
As of now League’s web site is down. I read somewhere Gant fired 80% of the staff. May be the IT guy got fired too.
I doubt he had any choice.How would he pay them? He has no money and no sales? so he don’t need staff.He should have payed attention to me when over 3 years ago I quizzed him as to how may people he was hiring and also asked him why they needed the exspensive fancy offices.Guess I saw something he did not
And the Ponzi collapses. As they always do.
Secured creditors get paid first. Everyone else, including investors get a % of the remainder, if there is a remainder.
A judge will have to order it, along those priorities of “security”:
1) receiver and appointed reps such as Fasken
2) DIP loans taken out (debtor in possession)
3) first mortgage holders, usually in full plus accrued interest, or if insufficient on the secured asset the first mortgage holder gets the asset free and clear (a so called “order nisi”)
4) second mortgage holders / collaterized debt across multiple properties in second position (aka Timbercreek)
5) taxes owed to cities, although they too may be in line with the rest
The rest.
The receiver will then go after Gant and Arruda personally due to loan guarantees and as directors. They cleverly hid a lot of asset in trust, so they will also file for bankruptcy and pay little or nothing.
Since the receiver has no incentive to work fast, and since it is such a convoluted mess, the “rest” will be very very small after 2-3 years of receivership work with millions in fees collected. “investors” better assume they get nothing.
How many folks have reported Arruda and Gant, and the many League securities sales people, to the RCMP for theft, securities violation, gross misrepresentation, etc. ??
The crown will take this up, eventually, as they did with Ron Aitkens of Foundation Capital in Calgary, but this will take a while. Investors better get their local MLA involved as the BC Security Commission knew about this for 3 or 4 years and did nothing. The “crown” needs a fire under their ass. Doing nothing will yield nothing.
Enjoy the show. Maybe this is made into a movie one day.
Investors, of course, are to blame too, to a degree, as this blog, for example, has been up for 2+ years and people invested a large chunk of their savings based on dubious overly rosy promises without reading, let alone understanding the OM. Diversification, i.e. investing perhaps only 10% of your cash into League would have meant you lost only 10% of your investment.
Why did people invest 50% or more of their savings here ?
To Pat:
Don’t be so negative. It’s uncertain what IPUs can recover, but it’s still likely to be substantial. You don’t know how the receiver will work, so give it the benefit of the doubt. It will take a few years to liquidate all the assets even in the most efficient receivership. The receiver is not out to rip off investors.
As to why investors invested so much of their capital in IGW REIT, instead of only 10%, that’s because they were mislead into believing it was safe. If they thought the REIT was so risky that they should risk no more than 10%, they would not have invested anything.
jermy. Don’t pay attention to people like PAT. Arm chair quarterbacks are a dime a dozen in these types of situations .Outfits like PWC are not out to rip off investors but they still rub their hands together when they get handed a pile of shit such as the league has become to apllie their “receivership” services
Let’s not confuse reality with negativity.
Timbercreek ( http://www.timbercreek.com ) is a billion $ firm with talented lawyers, so they will ensure they get paid every cent of their secured loan, collaterized across a large number of assets. Ditto with all first mortgage lenders. Ditto with receiver, a multi-national firm. Investors are last in line, with all other creditors like the City of Colwood, KPMG the auditor, appraisers lawyers as per the PWC list posted.
Keep dreamin’
Does anyone know what Gant and Arruda will get paid through this process?
they will get paid to much nomatter the amount
Obviously the Know Your Client rule is un-enforceable, or holds no meaning what so ever. BCSC better get off their collective asses and stop this. I got this email today (expurgated):
So here is my story…….
I am a senior, and someone who knows nothing about investing. I was contacted by a League Representative, a lady named Jacqueline Raman-Nair. In discussions with her, I made it quite clear that I knew very little about investing…….she kept singing the praises of the League’s investments and telling me that they were good ones. We discussed my investing and she emailed me the Offering Memorandum but advised me not to bother printing it out. It was 80 some pages and that she instead would email just the necessary pages to sign. At the time I thought she was being helpful but I now feel that she was being deceitful and trying to get me to invest without doing any due diligence.
In our phone discussions, this lady also kept telling me that the latest offering of 10% return was almost sold out and would be gone almost immediately, but she could hold a portion of that for me. In several phone calls, she said things like…..there was another huge amount sold, the opportunity is almost gone now….you have to move quickly, etc. etc. I was led to believe that there were many qualified investors that were jumping into such a good investment. I was also told that unless I got the signed documents to her right away that I would miss out on the deadline to get interest for that month….in other words, I would invest but would miss the interest payment for that month unless I got it in right away. I realize now these are standard tactics designed to convince people to buy without delay…….to make them think that everyone else is getting in and unless you move very quickly the opportunity is lost. Unfortunately I did fall for these tactics.
I think the most deceitful part was that when I filled in the necessary pages she had emailed, which I might add by the way were already mostly filled in by her…….there was one page that I remember where you put your qualifications as an investor ( something like beginner, experienced, expert, etc.)…….she had filled in that I was experienced. I am not an experienced investor and I had told her that quite clearly a number of times over the phone. So I changed that on the form to represent myself as a beginner with no experience. When she received those signed documents, she phoned and told me that there might be a problem because I had identified myself as an inexperienced investor. She said that would cause delays because my investment application would have to go through some other people for investigation and that I would likely lose out on the opportunity. She said she should change that on the form back to experienced so that there would be no delay, and that I shouldn’t worry about it. So without really understanding what the problem was with me being an inexperienced investor and with some misgivings, I did say ok, because I didn’t want to miss out on the opportunity.
There was also one page that I had to sign that spoke about risk and that I could lose all the money. When I asked the lady about this…..she replied that this was just standard legal paperwork……that they had to put that in, but that I shouldn’t worry about it, that this was a safe investment. I was led to believe that it was just procedural but didn’t mean that the investment was indeed a risky one.
Another thing that happened was that I had to get a professional to witness my and my wife’s identification. There was a list of professional occupations that qualified. I was in such a hurry to get this to her before the deadline for the interest that I got a friend that is an RCMP officer to witness our identification information, an occupation that wasn’t on the approved list. Much later, she emailed me that a review had caught this fault and that it was necessary to get the right professional to witness our identification to make our investment legal. I had already come to the point of regretting this investment by this time, so I told her that I would not do that and that if my investment was not right that she should arrange for my money to be returned. She replied that this was not possible and that she would send my answer on the identification issue on to the investigator and get back to me. She never did get back to me.
So that is my sad account. I invested $50,000 dollars which represents a good portion of my life savings, money I expected to use in my retirement, money that I guess I will never see again. I feel lost, I don’t know what will happen or if there is anything I can do. I also feel outrage that this kind of firm can indeed operate like this in BC and legally scam ignorant people such as myself out of their money.
There was also one page that I had to sign that spoke about risk and that I could lose all the money. When I asked the lady about this…..she replied that this was just standard legal paperwork……that they had to put that in, but that I shouldn’t worry about it, that this was a safe investment. I was led to believe that it was just procedural but didn’t mean that the investment was indeed a risky one.
The Above quote is “exactly” what ADAM GANT himself told me over the phone
the question is to beg…… Have you lodged a formal complaint with the securities commission against the salesperson?? complain to securities ombudsman????
duh
PRO? u obviously have not been here for the last year and reading about whats going on?
Complaining to BCSC is akin to blowing smoke out your ass. Complete waste of time
There as useless as tits on a Bull
ok, let me rephrase that , have you registered a suit personally against the salesperson and LISI?
Wayne, whether or not you personally care for anyone in here, it does not matter to anyone. If you don’t like the language, people, or tone, change the channel.
it doesn’t matter who you were responding to. And typing does not require an open ‘trap’. However, thinking and reason require an open mind.
In future, do not respond to me. You have not earned the right to comment on anything I post.
Just can’t let it go can you?
Why don’t you try to contribute something rather than pontificate and judge what other people have worked hard to do? I have a 160 IQ. What’s yours? I hold 2 four year degrees. What is your education? Anything else you would like to talk about? Like maybe that women should only speak when spoken to, or stay bare foot and pregnant, or wear a hijab? Contribute or change the channel
Yup, just what I expected. You really believe you are a “special” person. Above everyone else.
Talking about judgemental…..look in a mirror….or better still…..re-read your last post.
Fasken sent an update to investors on Monday
If you are an investor and did not get it, it means the league does not have you on their
e-mail list
To get on this list, I would suggest e-mailing ‘league@fasken.com’
CC Jessica.Russell@leagueis.ca
Point being we all need to get on this list b4 we can sue or try to obtain it, since wouldn’t ya know I highly doubt it is current or complete, we should first try to ensure everyone is on it, etc
I do think it’s a grand idea however at some point for an investor to ask Faskens for it, and then if they will not supply it, why that is so
That would be a great reason to try and get E&Y in there, if for no other reason, assuming they would give us the list
wayne? do u somehow think your friend” Jesus will save you??
OK…so now we HAVE heard from Faskens – had an email from them an hour ago (12.17 p.m. in BC)
me too its a f–king joke in my opinion
what exactly is faskens supposed to do for the unit holders?
other than further dilute any monies left
SM: Faskens won’t do s.b.a. for the unit holders. No one will. You are all hooped. You need to get on board with E and Y, and at least hope that these criminals are put away. That is about all you can do.
absolutely nothing.We need E&Y even more now than ever
so what is it going to take for e&y to come on board?
exactly what E&Y told u in the email they sent you.Call PWC and say U want them on board.They need numbers to make it work
Somebody needs to get the investor list from Faskens. They will get paid no matter what, so it won’t hurt them to give up the list.
1. Please distribute the attached letter to other investors you may know and ask them to consider, sign and return the letter to the contact thereon at the earliest possible date; and
2. Please contact Faskens and request that they retain a financial advisor to assist the investors.
league@fasken.com
As you are likely aware, the next substantive Court application in this CCAA proceeding is scheduled for November 18, 2013, we encourage you, with the support of Faskens, to develop an investor steering committee as soon as practical to assist Faskens in representing the interests of the investors.
I think it’s time we heard something from Faskens, maybe on PWC’s site – some sort of introductory letter telling us what they’re going to do for us. The offer from E & Y should also be addressed – should we, or should we not, go with them, and why. I have emailed John Grieve at Faskens, so they know I exist, but I’ve had no acknowledgement.
And hey, guys, know the difference between principal and principle – WE have lost our principal, Gant has no principles.
Cherry Good one on the principle.I think we need E&Y These big lawyer outfits and PWC are so arrogant they don’t give a shit about you and I.All it is to them is business as usuall.If anyone thinks they will get any reasonable or personal service from these 2 parasites your very very naive
The investors should use Ernest & Young. It just completed the Aquattro CCAA and worked with Fasken & Martineau . The people at E & Y in Victoria are very familiar with any prospective condo development in Victoria. I also noted its fees were conservative. You should read the Appraisal of the Aquattro property http://documentcentre.eycan.com/Pages/Main.aspx?SID=142
Once you go through it you will see that Colwood Capital CIty Center will never succeed AND COULD NEVER HAVE SUCCEEDED..
Also If the investors got hold of the internal cash flow documents for Duncan City Center you would see that the cash generated covers only the first mortgage and not all the taxes. It in no way covers the 2 other mortgages on the property. It would be best to walk on the property and let it be foreclosed as well as walk on the Colwood property. It is mathematically impossible given the construction costs and narrow profit margin of Colwood to even recover the cost of that underground garage let alone any of the mortgages.
If the DIP financing is approved it is basically an equity strip. Think about it , the DIP financing has priority to everything on all the properties, it can not lose. The investors lose all their equity and then the other mortgage holders lose the value of their loan. Price Waterhouse and counsel also suck the life out of everything.
Finally as for a Ponzi scheme, Jeremy is referring to a narrow anachronistic definition. In reality a Ponzi scheme is as the others have defined it- paying early investors with the money of later investors by promising a rate of return that can not be achieved by the underlying investment whether there was even such investment or not. Basically sucking in investors by promising unrealistic returns for the purposes of using and keeping the investors money and creating the appearance of returns by using later investors money to create the appearance of returns.
Rachelle and Allison have a great defense.
As for putting the boys in prison, you need to find an ancillary act like diverting monies collected for property taxes away from a shopping center and used for something else not related to the shopping center or using corporate funds such as paying the fines at BC SEC or paying for lawyers out of corporate funds for personal purposes.
As for tracking funds, as the accounting was audited,it should be very simple to pull out of the records the funds removed from the League.
If you want investors to support E&Y, it might be helpful to provide the link to E&Y’s letter to League investors.
Jeremy says:true Ponzi scheme has no real operations (Charles Ponzi and Bernie Madoff, for example), Thats not true as Madoff had tons of investment portfolios( real operations)
Madoff hadn’t done any trading for years prior to revealing his scheme. The investment portfolios and account statements of his clients were the work of fiction.
I watched the entire Madoff scandal.He had investments lots of them but was spending more than he brought in on personal stuff.He had a lot of those prime mort. certificats and when the chit hit the fan in 207/08 and firms quit repurchasing them his scam surfaced but he did well for over 20 years
So, how long do you think it will take PWC to see the obvious? How much money will they burn through in the meantime?
PWC are happy campers now as they can reap the benefits of being in charge of the CCAA.They really could care less about the lowly investor.this whole CCAA thing is really just another example of government blundering and interference so outfits like PWC take full advantage of it and its all legal and court approved
I think PWC just wants the fees, screw the obvious. Remember Gant hired them so it will take a awhile, like a half million in fees, to see the obvious.You can not turn on him too soon.The PWC people need their year end bonuses.
Look. Gant obviously perjured himself. He obviously ran a Ponzi. Somebody needs to have him arrested before even more money is drained. This whole process is Bu*****t. If he had robbed you of your money in any other way he would be in jail, where he belongs
Below is Adam Gant and Emanuel Arruda’s lie back in 2006. That’s the tactic they used to con people to invest in League. According to what they claimed the way they invested should not have been affected by the 2008 economic crisis. The outcome as we all know is entire different and Gant is using the crisis as an excuse for the shit he created. I know you read this blog Adam and I am talking to you – you 2 con men should be put in jail.
Syndicate offers principled private investments
By BE Ad Features
Published: 03/16/2006 – Vol. 6, No. 6
Smart investors know that a properly balanced portfolio includes a significant investment in real estate.
Economic conditions change, equities markets fluctuate, bad times follow on the heels of boom times. But quality commercial and residential real estate rarely loses value over the long term.
Wealthy Canadians have understood these basic principles for years, and now League Assets Corp. — a members-only investment syndicate — is allowing like-minded investors of all experience levels to enjoy the same opportunity as their ‘sophisticated’ member-partners.
Specialists in the development, re-development and syndication of high-income investment properties, Emanuel Arruda and Adam Gant have helped League’s member-partners to take full advantage of the lucrative commercial real estate market within an innovative investment structure that supplies regular monthly income, capital appreciation, and superb tax savings.
“Our definitive goal is to supply investment opportunities that produce the best returns possible without risking our member partners’ capital,” explains Gant during an interview from League’s head office in Victoria, B.C.
“Even when the market fluctuates, we’re still able to get a good income. We never allow ourselves to be in a position where we have to sell.”
Buying ‘right’ means League can always hold on to that property, continuing to generate reliable rates of income, until the market returns to health.
League Assets Corp. provides passive investments that generate monthly cash flow, equity buildup, and capital appreciation, with preferential tax treatment – all with minimal risk and no liability for debt.
Here’s how the model works.
League Assets, along with their partner-investors, help finance down payments to initiate the purchase of large residential and commercial income properties …
apartment buildings and shopping complexes, for example.
Later, mortgage lenders supply the remainder of the purchase price by approving and finalizing financing arrangements.
As Emanuel Arruda points out, League tends to scout for assets that have been overlooked by the market at large. Either these properties have been undervalued or they have been under-managed in the past.
So, the idea is to acquire these properties at bargain prices and, second, to address – and correct -the issues that led the market to ignore them.
” We pursue strategies that decrease the sensitivity of our assets to changes in interest rates, the turn over of tenants, and fluctuations in the economy,” says Arruda. “This way we maximize the income realized from our overall strategy.”
Adds Adam Gant: “We don’t like to push our luck. By being creative in the way we structure our mortgages and negotiate our acquisitions, we’re able to give our investors solid performance and peace of mind.
“Our formula is straightforward: We produce a product that entails low risk and high reward — which is exactly the mix for we are looking.”
Potential partners will also value the ethical component of the League Assets business plan – you can see League’s Credo at the corporate website, http://www.league.ca.
It’s founded upon the Golden Rule, with an entrepreneurial twist.
As Arruda explains: “We don’t get paid until the rest of our member-partners receive an increase in their investment returns.
“As a result, we have a vested interest in making sure that we buy the right properties. We call it our philosophy of positive-interdependence.”
This is a structural strength of the plan that sets League Assets Corp. apart from its competitors.
“Where everyone else is looking for way to accrue profits to themselves, we’re looking out for the interests of our investors.
That’s why so many of them continue to come back and re-invest with us,” adds Arruda.
“Our roster of partners has grown exponentially” says Arruda.
“They know that we require no minimum investment and that we’re in this for the long haul.”
League Assets is continually developing new investment vehicles custom tailored for both beginning and sophisticated investors.
To find out more, download their eBook “The Blue Book of Real Estate Syndication” from http://www.league.ca, call 1-877-772-8836 (toll free) or e-mail Emanuel Arruda at emanuel@league.ca or Adam Gant at adam@league.ca.
in my opinion gant is USELESS and why he is still around is beyond me
D Thomas called it months ago. Gant would take the pile of shit into bankruptcy and get paid his fat fees. Don’t forget that smarmy little snake Arruda. I called BCSC today, and they are still singing that old song, we are doing what we can within the law. BULL.
the sad truth is like politicians all these companies involved are like pigs in a trough,they dont give a damn about any of the investors and are like vultures attacking a carcass all the legalities that must be followed are all just to the benefit of these companies
who initially determined that pwc should be the ccaa monitor?
I think PWC is also useless. its just like you say SM just a bunch of god dahm pigs at the trough.Just like walin,duffey,harb etc
GANT engaged PWC. Who else? He will keep getting paid, no matter what happens to anyone.
Their website, what’s left of it, appears to be down.
Stuart,
This forum is about League. If you want to devote a site to attacks on individual posters then please start one. I have zero interest in reading drivel/drama between you and the two ladies. If everyone else on this website does, then please correct me.
Rachelle and Allison are not always right. They do not always choose the best way to make their points. Unlike you, they use their real names and are willing to pay the price in Court if their use of the term PONZI was wrong. Everyone can make up their own minds about their credibility and at this point it is more helpful if commenters focus on substantive issues rather than bad mouthing others on matters that have. Been raised before. Whether Allison was a VP years ago in a firm League invested in does not matter to investors today. Can we bring the focus back to discuss things that matter.
For example, the use of Ernst and Young, pros and cons? Seems like it was a good idea for Harvest Foundation investors. On the other hand it looks extremely expensive. What is wrong with counting on PWC to do the same job?
pwc and league are working hand in hand to restructure what is in the best interests of league not necessarilly what is in the best interests of the unitholders e&y is offering to work for the unit holders,more expensive yes but maybe with better results for us?
I agree with you keep the focus on league and not on individual dissagreements
MICK !!! You are 100% correct. IF IF IF we would have listened to these two galls 2 years ago we may not be in the spot we are in(lost our investments).I think stuart needs to focus on Gants and Aruudas illeagal activitys and not worry about what AJ may have been involved in years ago as it has no bearing on the league and its current ugly situation
SM,
The way I see it, PWC has every reason to want to extend the CCAA as that’s how they get paid the most. I have not heard anyone to date provide any fact-based rationale for how investors get back more in a “restructuring” where equity is consumed by professional firm fees, than if the League was to sell off its assets and return any equity to investors. Does anyone think Gant should continue to manage?
I have heard the comments about how a quote fire sale of assets will destroy value. I don’t believe that auctioning the properties would be worse for investors if they are properly marketed.
Seems like a CCAA is not appropriate for a company whose main problem is losing money from ordinary operations. Continuing to allow them to get more financing through DIP just increases the secured debt and puts investors farther in the hole.
If you think about it, the DIP they just got simply adds another million six that comes ahead of investors. Can they really add that much value when they have no track record of ever having been profitable from operations?
I’d be inclined to say yes to EY so investors are represented by a firm that IS NOT the Monitor, but that’s just my uninformed view.
it is incredulous to me that they keep gant on
how stupid can everyone be to (pwc) see him still paid this is the main reason we are in this situation today yet he continues to be paid and we do not?
there is no way current management can repair what has transpired so why keep him on?
Fire his ass with no severence and bring in someone competant ,in my opinion it is our only hope yet I have not heard or seen anyone from pwc or the law firm bring this up.
Not one single soul in here has any say in how this will turn out. Only the secured money has any say.
I still don’t think there is any equity in any of the properties. I still think they over paid for them, created their own NAVs, raised money into them, never did anything to create value, and the ones they have sold they sold at a loss. If there is any equity, believe me, PWC will suck it out. Look how much they charged tax payers to go through Pamela Wallins expenses. They have a license to print money. Your money.
Stuart,
One million dollar investment years ago is not going to change anything for anyone, correct? What I’d like to talk about is the decisions that face investors today. This whole he-said, she-said between you and Allison is not productive for the rest of us. Maybe you two have some history together as you have said, but I for one am not interested in it.
Allison,
I agree with you that to the extent there is any equity, it may very well be consumed by paying fees. If there is equity, and I believe there is, investors need to make sure it does not get burned up in financing a so-called restructuring. That is why I am inclined to have E+Y. So investors aren’t just along for the ride.
I mean, why didn’t they take all of the companies into protection? There are a few that are actually solvent. Why shouldn’t the investors, who were duped from day one, have a shot at those assets?
I understand what you are saying. The fees are outrageous, all round. I would like a court to say that no more money can be spent until the fee situation is corrected and is equitable for unsecured money.
League filing for bankruptcy would be the best news for unit holders. The only card Gant can play is to take on more debt to delay bankruptcy, at the expense of unit holders. Gant will play this card until there is no more money to borrow (eroding unit holder value notwithstanding). No sensible lender would lend to a distressed company, so I don’t know what the DIP financier is thinking. Between liquidation and Gant’s continuing mismanagement, I’ll take my chances with liquidation any day.
I want to be crystal clear, Stuart, I have never done any business or been associated with League in any way. EVER. I wasted 2 hours of my life reading the Blue Book and found the IGW REIT Cease Trade Orders on the BCSC website and I knew they were a scam. The only surprise to me is how crooked they are with their 105 companies and how little the authorities are doing to stop them and punish them.
Why do I think investors should use E&Y as financial advisors?
1 – The investors are not a cohesive group, they need help forming steering committees to help represent their interests
2 – The investor list. The investor list. The investor list. The courts will force League to give it to the the Investor financial committee.
3 – Do you go to your lawyer to do your taxes? No, then why would you expect your lawyer to explain the kind of complex financial engineering that League structured?
4 – This is primarily a financial/accounting nightmare and the first order of the day is to get forensic accountants on board figuring this mess out.
Why E&Y in particular? Their work on the Harvest Group of Scam, and their willingness to do the work. Other than that I would suggest Grant Thornton, which is winding up a similar scam here in Ontario called First Leaside.
I am a self employed property manager, this means that I don’t have anyone who “invests in my business” and if I don’t make money for people I get fired. Since the entire bullshit of me getting sued by League happened this spring, I have spent countless hours learning how to represent myself in a BC court of law, I mounted a defense to their claim and I, unrepresented, beat their highly paid and trained lawyer in an injunction. I said that they were a Ponzi over 2 years ago, and stood behind that. In September of this year, I said on this very blog they would go bankrupt in October. October 10th I broke the news they were filing for CCAA prematurely, and the filed on October 18th.
Furthermore in a troubling coincidence, the auditor’s letter with League’s most recent financial statements, stated that there were serious doubts the “League was a going concern” That was dated July 19th 2013 but it was only released to the investors in September. Adam Gant, did perjure himself when he swore his affidavit in my case on August 8th that League and IGW REIT was in good financial health. By September 11th when my hearing was held, it was even more obvious that the group of 105 companies was in decline and on the verge of failing, and finally filing for CCAA on October 18th.
Do you think that a reasonable person might consider it substantially true that a company who has managed to lose up to $350 million in investor money might be called a Ponzi? Because that is the test for defamation.
Do you think that a filing for CCAA might have changed the Justice’s mind about how League’s reputation was damaged by people warning the public about this company?
It’s not much that I am winning the case but rather that Adam Gant is losing. I accept that.
To Rachelle:
For your defamation defense, you just have to show that League had income losses in each and every year (see note below), and that with consistent losses, the de facto business of League became not the receipt of rent and interest, but the sale of investment units. The cash flow of League relied so heavily on the sale of units that, without it, League had to file for CCAA in one month.
Should anyone raise the issue that a true Ponzi scheme has no real operations (Charles Ponzi and Bernie Madoff, for example), League’s operations were only secondary to the sale of units in terms of cash flow importance. Good luck with your defense.
Note: There were net losses from 2007 to 2009 totaling $7.2M. Net income in 2010 was restated as a loss in 2012 and again in 2013 ($3.4M gain became $3.3M loss then $4M loss). Net loss in 2011 was restated as a bigger loss in 2013 ($6.8M loss became $7.8M loss). In 2012, the biggest income loss of $35.6M was posted, and it was bigger than all previous years’ losses combined. From 2007 to 2012, League recorded income losses totaling $54.6M.
Gant really plays it like a republican: when you are found out, start taking down your websites:
http://www.forwardprogressives.com/after-rand-paul-got-caught-plagiarizing-speeches-his-website-starts-removing-speech-transcripts/
Lord have mercy you are an idiot.
I am not, nor ever was, involved in Londondale or Cygnet, or any other project that touched you or your crappy companies. The end. Don’t try to implicate me in your rats nest. I am going to ask Suzi to have you banned from this forum. You do nothing to advance the investors; but then, your job as Value Destroyer precludes that, doesn’t it, GANT….you clown.
This is familiar: re Rand Paul and Rachel Maddow
“…this is a classic. When you’re getting attacked for something, just accuse your opponent of being guilty of the same thing. Whatever the attack is, if it’s sticking to you, just apply those words in a substantively meaningless way to whoever’s saying it about you, so at least it starts to seem confusing to people or the words lose their meaning.”
Which is a strategy Republicans often use. They seem to constantly accuse others of doing the very thing they are doing. They claim Democrats are the “big spenders,” yet they run up giant deficits every time they control the White House. They claim Democrats are for “big government,” while they push for Constitutional Amendments that would ban same-sex marriage. Republicans are almost constantly accusing others of doing the very things they are doing.
Just received this email from Ernst & Young today. I don’t know how they got hold of my email address. They want to be the financial advisor in the CCAA proceedings, not legal advisor. Does anybody see any benefits in that regard.
Dear Sir/Madam,
I refer to this office’s previous correspondence regarding the possible retention of Ernst & Young Inc. (“EY”) as financial advisor to the investors of League Assets Corp. and associated entities (collectively “League”) in the CCAA proceedings.
As you may be aware, on Friday, October 25 2013, Fasken Martineau DuMoulin LLP (“Faskens”) was appointed as representative legal counsel for the investors of League by order of the Supreme Court of British Columbia. Faskens has set-up an e-mail address for investors to contact them directly:
league@fasken.com
We have been speaking with Faskens, and other legal counsel involved in the League restructuring, about assisting the investors in a financial advisory role. As you will appreciate, these proceedings are complex given the array of project and other entities involved (more than 105 entities), and the detailed financial assessment and advocacy on behalf of the investors requires sound financial analysis, whether by EY or some other financial advisory firm. Right now EY has NOT been formally retained to assist the investors in a financial advisory capacity. In this regard, we are continuing to look for support from the investor community. There are two ways you can continue to support us:
1. Please distribute the attached letter to other investors you may know and ask them to consider, sign and return the letter to the contact thereon at the earliest possible date; and
2. Please contact Faskens and request that they retain a financial advisor to assist the investors.
As you are likely aware, the next substantive Court application in this CCAA proceeding is scheduled for November 18, 2013, we encourage you, with the support of Faskens, to develop an investor steering committee as soon as practical to assist Faskens in representing the interests of the investors.
We thank you for your continued support.
Kind regards,
Ernst & Young Inc.
I’ll be honest with everyone, I seriously think a forensic accountant is required more than anything. More than a lawyer, more than a monitor. I also want the Altus Heyer appraisals from several years ago to come out.
Looking at the creditor list I think it is quite obvious that the reason why Altus stopped doing appraisals was because League didn’t pay them as opposed to any nefarious purpose.
I think that this is a little unprofessional of E&Y. The monitor and Faskens are refusing to recommend them so they are trying top do an end run. I can’t see how investors are complaining that their funds are being used up by PWC and Faskens and then want to have yet another firm come in.
On the call PWC discussed that their mandate was to determine what happened before the CCAA filing and where funds went. I don’t think at this point we need another accounting firm doing the same analysis.
What I don’t understand is why last year Timbercreek would grant a mortgage of $82 million on the Westlock property, when it was clearly worth about $3 million. Was it part of a blanket mortgage? On the Title there’s nothing to that effect ( see the end of Gant’s Affidavit #3).
It is a blanket mortgage for over $23 million advanced of which it appears $18 million is secured on Partners REIT shares. It is confusing
Yes, some people may have hired a lawyer for 30% of their principle though I would guess that lawyer would have to petition the court to be able to represent those investors and so far I have not seen anything as such on the PWC website
Others have asked E&Y about representing them but again no such petition has either been filed or at least agreed to in court
My assumption, for now, is that Faskens solely represents all investors in these proceedings but if some investors are not happy with the end result they will re-consider having their own counsel
Of course some may disagree with my assumption
If other(s) here have gotten personal legal advice it’s not something that has been readily shared on this forum, not should it, all the investors have differing concerns, depending upon the type they invested in, and the timeframe, etc, and the moment investors think their principle is actually gone, it’ll change the dynamics
If the non-equity in Gant’s personal residence is any indication of the assets that are left after PWC determines there is no equity anywhere in this mess, where did the money go? I understand the extremely high overhead in Vancouver and Victoria, and lord knows where else, and all of those minions on the payroll, but I just can’t believe that $300M has vanished. It has to be somewhere. I maintain that they knew what they were doing in 2007, and structured this thing to be profitable for only two people.
Buy high sell low, do it with other people’s money so you have no skin in the game, and take ridiculous fees all along the losing path. Some business plan. I think I’m gonna get me a coat of arms.
Alison; could you forward that KPMG analysis of the non feasibility of League to
Heather M.B. Ferris
Email:
hferris@lawsonlundell.com
the Export Import Bank is carrying the motion to set aside the CCAA order and I think if she sees that KPMG questioned the League years ago maybe she can wrap her mind around the assertion that it is a Ponzi scheme.
Open a conversation with her because if she can show the court that it is a Ponzi scheme it only helps the defense of the defamation case.
I think that the Hong Kong Securities Commission needs to be advised that Harris & Fraser is now controlled by an insolvent company and its directors have plead guilty to securities violation. There is no legitimate reason for any League money to be used to complete the purchase of Harris & Fraser if it can not operate it and that goes for the purchase of Forbes which is a licensed investment adviser in Ontario.Ontario SEC needs to be informed too. It looks like League wanted those companies in order to get control of the investors portfolios and then sell them the League POS
Thomas: done. You are absolutely correct about all of these sharks taking control of the process, and spending far too much money doing it. It is simple. It was a scam (A BIG SCAM), and it is the sort of scam that we as citizens should be protected from by our government. BCSC had better step up soon. They had to have known the depth of this. If they didn’t they aren’t doing their jobs. But, I have no faith at all in government. Talk about blood sucking sharks.
DT,
The KPMG “analysis” is clearly a doctored document. Two documents have been pasted together to look like one. They don’t even properly reference each other and the letterheads are different.
By all means pay a lawyer to tell you that but I wouldn’t be relying too much on them.
It’s not a doctored document, it is two documents. One is the analysis by a company called Genesisland by Arthur Wong and the other is emails between Arthur Wong and Dennis Auger of KPMG (Senior Partner). What is most shocking to me is that neither one of them seems concerned that League is not profitable in it’s core business and that their source of income is fees from investors. What they go on to discuss in their email is the complicated tax reduction strategy employed by League and discussed in the Genesisland document.
The proof is in the pudding. The report is there and KPMG had it. Did KPMG do their job as auditors? Not until July 19th of this year.
Stuart, you are absolutely wrong. Again. The communications are between Genesis Land (a REAL developer who creates VALUE) and a senior partner at KPMG discussing the tax implications of IGW, the viability of the business plan, and the past record of the partners (none, except that they lost money). Nothing has changed except little league got out of control before all of the investor money was lost.
Implicit? No. complicit? Likely. Shut up gant.
Some investors have either banded together and/or hired legal council and have been added to the notice list that PWC is maintaining. At this point most REIT investors have similar issues and claims, that is why the court appointed council to represent everyone. At some point that may change and investors can hire their own council. I really doubt that any lawyer will take this on straight contingency. I am seeing lawyers asking for 30% plus fees of $5K or $10K to start but that is not the same thing. Having a lawyer doesn’t get you treated any differently then anyone else in the same class as you.
It is fairly easy to see where the $300M went. Read the financial statements and you get a pretty good idea of what was purchased and what salaries are paid. Unless I am missing something, I don’t see any huge chunks of funds un-accounted for or in offshore accounts.
If I was Gant I wouldn’t be building up lots of equity in property that I had leveraged and secured to the hilt either.
I agree its fairly easy to see where the 300 million went:.50 million in fees,75 million to colwood and Duncan, 30 million in losses,23 million to PAR.UN, etc
Nobody has seen the books for the GP’s that charged millions in fees for supposedly running everything so nobody can say that millions were not skimmed- millions as in a few million not massive millions.
Why hire an independent lawyer when you can make your court appointed representative answer questions. He should be happy to respond to investors as the more hours he spends the more he makes.It would be unfair that he could not use the CCAA like the monitor and its lawyers to burn through investor equity.
here is a quote from an investor in the Foundation Capital Harvest case in Alberta:
The cow has already been milked. Like I said we are over $18 million in fee’s the land is probably only worth about $80 million (for all the investments). How can a standard CCAA with boiler plate documents, a copied plan, cost that kind of money? The Monitor has way overstepped his bounds, and is milking faster a his hands can milk. Court appointed and $1250/hr that is criminal for simple accounting… A forensic audit is only $100,000.00 if we did that on all the projects that is only around $1,200,000.00. Around 1/5th of our recovery is going to the CCAA “Professionals”, how does that make you feel after being victimized for the first 70%
The “Professionals” have conveniently placed themselves in the drivers seat of a well oiled and financed machine they themselves over time have created, the hard work and savings of the investors that brought us here to this point notwithstanding. If they are THAT broke in their businesses that they need these obscene rates, then perhaps they should move their businesses and Skype to the back seat of an old Dodge car and start over. I don’t mind paying for good and reliable service, but if these rates are what you suggest, then I like the others demand results.
The League lawyers and their B.S. OM’s created the mess and now the CCAA will reward them again.
League had 130 or so staff. Assume $50K average salary plus 40% overhead costs and that is $9M a year right there. 5-6 years and $50M gets spent pretty quickly.
its becoming more apparent every day that these guys have lost money from day one
no doubt in my mind as I look things over daily.They made some money on some stand along LP ventures but those were of no benefit to IGW what so ever.Iam starting to think that maybe this was in fact a PONSI scheme
Not so sure Paul all of us will come to that conclusion but it does seem apparant that as real estate investors they made a series of poor choice(s), that whatever criteria they used was faulty
However if they had kept to investing in income generating real estate, the losses would only buildings they had sold for less and mgt costs, we could all walk away with something, if not 75% of our collective principles
I’ve been saying all-along their worst ‘crime’, their worst investment decision, is still loaning nearly a 3rd of the pool for private projects, that did not return cash, nor generate income, has anyone ever considered that maybe the whole idea of league was set up just to finance these projects, in a sense we were a big bank, and our funds were used to prop up all the other mortgages, etc
Personally, I think we’d all have an easier time proving this, because the loans look ‘funny’ than anything legally criminal from the get go, though IMO loaning a REIT pool for one own’s projects borders on a case of humungous mis-representation if it can in fact be proved
The League plan was to invest in 3rd tier strip malls and commercial properties with high leverage, clean them up and then flip them. If the properties increase in value by 10% they double their initial investment. Problem was that if the properties decreased by 10% then they lose everything.
Colwood and Duncan were likely ill advised based on the original plan.The OM’s gave them broad discretion on how to use money raised in IGW REIT and they appeared to have relied on that heavily.
Ok Stuart, but it’s not just Duncan and Collwood, it’s also Ft St John, another property in Vaughn, etc, there is a pattern of diverting the IGW & IPU pool funds away from safer income generating 3rd tier strip malls to much riskier grandiose projects, none of which the REIT own(s)
My point is they published marketing material telling investors one thing but in practice they were actually using more than a third of the REIT, if not half, to fund finance personal ventures, and unlike banks and mortgage co’s whom require balance sheets etc, there was no accountability concerning the loans
IMO (right or wrong) that’s the ‘crime’ here….
So now, Stuart, tell us how you got to see that document.
Go away, Stuart. You have NO STAKE in this, if anyone believes that you got your money out. DO NOT refer to the ‘we’ in this unless you are a stakeholder. Your constant attempts to side track the discussion make it patently obvious who you are. You have no conscience, no morals, no integrity and no…well we all know the end of that sentence.
has anyone here gotten any legal advice?
I would still like to know what happened to the slimy scum bag Mini G
Apparently he is still working in the office, just not taking too many visitors!
And only he would know that. Right?
And I just love the word ‘working’. Hilarious
Stuart: on pages 5 & 6 of the Monitors Report, the Partners Reit shares are listed as having a value of $23.9 million and $18.1 million of debt secured against them, which is Timbercreek’s charge, leaving $5.8 million of unattached equity. As the use of and loss of that equity does not affect secured creditors only IGW Reit unit holders, the secured creditors would want the DIP lender to take that equity as security for the initial advance of DIP financing.
The value of the Partners shares varies of course based on the stock price. On the PWC call the point was made that there are so many cross guarantees between entities that it is going to take a while to sort out what is what.
I took a brief look at the motion materials filed today and it looks like the DIP lenders are taking mortgages on a number of properties as security. The court appears to have ordered that these mortgages and Faskens debt take priority over other secured debt.
Turns out Maxam only organized the funding, there are 3 seperate entities providing the money in traunches. Also looks like Faskens have been authorized to spend up to $150K for now and not $250K as they wanted.
so stuart if you were an investor were you able to get all your money out?
so stuart did you and arruda have a falling out?
you were so close for so many years,did you kick him out or did he quit?
how many millions do you think he took with him?
are you still in contact with him?
you once said on this blog you are not gant are you lying? a few people seem to think you are
Only Allison thinks I am Gant. Gant posts under his own name. If anyone took 5 minutes to read my posts then you would know I have been just as critical of League over the years as anyone else – I just don’t call people criminals.
You may not agree with my comments and that is fine, check my track record of predictions though. The most recent was that Faskens and DIP would be in and E & Y out.
Unlike Allison and Rachelle, I was an investor and have an actual education. I tell you what is going to happen and what the risk are without all of the drama and defamation.
I’m wondering how many people here listened to the PWC phone call? – One thing no one hasmentioned was that our PWC rep accidently mentioned why the league sought protection – Two creditors wanted to foreclose – So in fact the League is not doing any of this, no matter what Adam or anyone else claims because they want too and or it’s good for investors, they had no choice, and that’s why unless PWC satisfies those two creditors in the next 30 days, it’s over, in fact I’d say those 2 creditors likely decide how this all plays out
It is good for investors in the sense that if the secured creditors foreclose and force a liquidation then the investors and unsecured creditors will get very little if anything. League would have had to initiate the CCAA protection so in a sense Adam is correct.
Moot point anyways, PWC states on their website this morning that Faskens has been appointed and the DIP financing is approved. No doubt a few people wanted to force a liquidation but the court saw otherwise.
It will be interesting what the DIP financing looks like. On the PWC site under Motion Materials here was an affidavit filed as the share price of the Partners Reit shares. Wonder if that supposed $4 million plus of Partners Reit share value was used as security for DIP.
The Partners shares are worth about $30M – not $4M. The DIP financing will sit in priority to all other debt.
het stuart old buddy sm here haven’t heard back from you on that offer to sit down and have a beer,
but that’s okay I have a better idea
why don’t you and me jet on down to brazil and hook up with your buddy arruda? or did you once say you had a place in belize?
boy I bet the stories ,you can tell we can all have a good laugh
so give me an e mail and let me know!!!!
Sorry, not into S & M
I am investor in both Colwood and IGW REIT. For some reason when I log into my account, my IGW REIT CLASS AAA shares now show a value of .83 cents, down from .94 after that whole Nav thing.
Just wondering if anyone noticed this?
If Stuart isn’t Gant then he is someone on that creditors list. I have a couple of educated guesses as to who that might be.
Stuart: The Romspen judgments are registered against the individuals separately not jointly with the League and as Gant and Arruda are not part of the CCAA personally the creditor can proceed to collect individual judgments irrespective of the CCAA.They get no protection.It is also a question if creditors can act on other guarantees that typically say banks can go after the guarantor and not the actual borrower
Thanks for the explanation DT. I haven’t read the guarantees so I don’t know how they were structured. I would be suprised if action can proceed against a guarantor if the debtor is in CCAA unless that was contemplated in the agreement.
I am suprised that the court proceedings are taking so long today. Must be some of the secured creditors raising a fuss.
I will tell u guys a true story.I looked at a ROYAL Bank foreclosure on a building In salmon arm.There were 3 mortgages on it.IT was about a two year period from start to finish so dont exspect anything here to be done at a reasonable speed.This Guy for over 3 years never paid the building taxes and for two years never made a payment
YET and get this as this is unbeleivable.He collected the rent money to the tune of 65K PY and the royal Bank never did a single thing to stop the guy.I wrote out a written complaint to Royal head office and asked them where there brain was in this thing?
BIG surprize here though. I never received a answer.got the old we cant comment as of privacy laws Blah Blah Blah.I was pissed off because every time I go get a business mortgage or line of credit etc they want to charge me like 4K for a application fees etc saying it cost them X number of dollars to process and office costs etc etc and yet these assholes(royal bank) can waste money wantingly on this deal,Makes no sence.
Secured creditors get paid third, after receiver takes their enormous fee. Second would be CRA if they have a charge on title. Not paying GST or judgments eventually means jail time for Gant and/or Arruda, as they both are directors and had personal judgements against them. But this will take some time, likely years. Secured creditors means all mortgages. Thus, first mortgages get paid after receiver and CRA, then second mortgage i.e. Timbercreek or Rompsen. Then everyone else. Due to the size and inter-corporation mess this will take two to three years I’d say, especially since some second mortgages are secured by the fairly large IGW REIT. IPU investors might get pennies on the $s. Might. Equity investors will get nothing.
However, there are two to three large entities with billions in assets that a civil lawsuit can go after, and settle: KPMG, the auditor, that did not value the Colwood loan to IGW REIT properly under IFRS, and did not disclose the true risk properly as a going concern. Possibly also the BC government as the BC Security Commission did a shoddy job of regulating and cease trading League despite evidence for years by dozens of individuals. Possibly also Colliers for an inflated appraisal on many of the assets, especially the construction site Colwood.
Arruda, as one of the two actors, will watch the finale of this production from Brazil, with millions of fees collected. Does Brazil have an extradition treaty with Canada ?
I find it amazing that people with so much to say about this process REFUSE to listen to the PWC call. PWC CONFIRMED that at this point the financial statements appear to be accurate and that the $82M in equity shown in IGW is correct. They said that Colwood equity of $120M was likely overstated but that was because it was recorded at book value and properties under development are usually worth a discount to book.
That opinion may change as we proceed through this process but I don’t see how you guys keep jumping to the sue KPMG and sue the Government angle.
PWC CONFIRMED that at this point the financial statements appear to be accurate and that the $82M in equity shown in IGW is correct.
OK but is not up to PWC to account for where the other 208 million was spent?? we know where a lot of it went should they not do a accurate account so we know for sure?Also I dont like the term “appear to be accurate”??? Based on what?? they have not had enough time I dont think to be able to do a proper independent present day value estimate on all IGW holdings.
I SERIOUSLY SERIOUSLY doubt Colwood is worth even close to 120 Million.Should they not be out there getting independent appraisal
I mean if it is that,s a feather in our Hat so to speak cause i,am under the impression its only worth like 30–50 at best???
shut up gant
To Pat:
If you think IPUs will get pennies on the dollar, then you should doubt whether all secured creditors will be fully repaid, because that is a narrow margin. According to the 2013 balance sheet, after the secured creditors are repaid, and all the Colwood and Duncan loan receivables are written off, and the remaining assets are sold off at 60% of book value, IPUs will still recover 70%. I agree that no matter the outcome, common shareholders (equity investors) will get nothing. (Paul Maclean at League head office even confirmed that common shares are worthless.)
Jeremy,
At this stage nobody really knows what anything will be worth. Need to wait until the 18th when PWC reports back for a better idea.
To Stuart Little:
I agree that any calculation of what IPUs can recover has too many assumptions at this point. The only assumption I’m confident in is that restructuring is impossible, because there is no new lender for League, and existing secured creditors are better off with receivership than rate concession. Gant said that IPU holders have the most to lose in receivership (and I know you side with Gant on that statement), but I think IPU holders have more to lose if Gant continues to run the company (into the ground).
Gant has never done anything but run companies into the ground. He has NO education, NO experience, NO morals and NO problem taking money he has no right to. He has done it in such a sickeningly convoluted manner that the top accounting firms in Canada are having trouble untangling this disgusting, stinking rat’s nest.
Jeremy,
The PWC site stated today that the DIP lending has been approved so $31M is being loaned to League. I didn’t say that the IPU holders have the most to lose, I said that Faskens and PWC both said that everyone loses in a forced liquidation occurs because assets will get sold at firesale prices.
An important point made by PWC on the conference call was that there are many types of loans and debt and that they haven’t sorted out where each class ranks yet.
To Stuart Little:
League has obtained DIP financing to pay taxes and payroll, but for restructuring, League must lower its interest expense, and that is what it can’t do. League can’t avoid being crushed by high interest burden, and Gant is learning he can’t build an empire on debt. That is why liquidation is the only way out (unless IGW REIT is bought out by another REIT).
Jeremy you are exactly correct. The DIP financing is the lowest interest mortgage I have seen on any of their properties. The first step to League restructuring in any meaningful way would require Adam Gant to step down. The financial markets have spoken to him and have been speaking for years. We see you as a risky risky guy and even if you have secured the mortgage we will charge you the same rates as we would charge an average Canadian for unsecured credit credit cards. I have a TD card at 12%. It’s utter insanity.
If they found a manager with some real background in the industry with some real chops, they would likely get better rates with better lenders based on reputation alone.
that would be the best thing for all investors ,if he just left
Sophisticated investors will decide whether to do business or not with a company to some extent based on the team running it, but interest rates are based on the risk profile and assessment. Even if League brings in a new CEO I wouldn’t expect creditors to just drop their rates as a result.
Now CCAA provides some options and creditors may decide to take a reduction in their debt as a result of the process.
Speculate all you like about what the outcome will be for banks and other secured money. IMHO, if the investors are not made whole, then an entire system has failed them, not just one megalomaniac and his side kick.
(You got some splainin’ to do, Manny.)
during any restructuring one of the first things to look at is upper management as past performance is usually indicative of future performance,one of the best things to do for us is to bring in competent management
just look at sears they are restructuring with new management
Not arguing with you on the need for a fresh look at things. Sounds like Manny is already gone so at least you should be 50% happy!
the only way investors are going to be able to figure this all out is by using a forensic accountant
wether it is pwc or e&y doesn’t matter and I don’t mean just looking at their financials which they provided
it boggles the mind how much money these guys seem to have lost
we need an accurate assessment of all this written out so the average person can understand it all.
not only were they not paying investors it looks like they weren’t paying anyone
absolutely unbelievable to me
Sorry, sorry – I see it now. I thought it would be available online, but it seems that you have to dial it up.
Where is the recording of the conference call? I can’t find it on PwC’s site.
CHERRY?? Ray Charles could have found this on the web site:
To follow up on yesterday’s conference call, we advise that a recording of the call can be listened to by following these steps:
Dial 1-855-859-2056
Passcode for the call is: 90525848
The call will be available to be listened to until October 30, 2013, at 9:00 pm PST.
Be nice, Paul. It makes no sense to beat other people up. This is all very new to most.
Unless of course, you want to beat up Stuey.
Thats just me being my funny person today.relax
I will be out of the office from Friday nite till tuesday morning so if I dont come on here and give anyone crap thats the reason “Elvis has not yet left the building”
Rachelle: Thanks to Allison I could finally download the trade creditors. You are going to piss in your pants- Crawley Meredith and Bush, the lawyers responsible for the defamation lawsuit are owed over $78,000. Also all the other many lawyers that League used for its nefarious purposes are owed over $1.7 million and finally KPMG is owed over $1.4 million.
A whore in any brothel knows better to collect from the John before he leaves the building. The lawyers need a field trip to a brothel to see their counterparts and learn about making money.
As for Manny, his lips better be on the other side of a glory hole making money. Gant will not go down alone and when Gant’s examination is taken on the affidavit he will give up Manny. Gant’s wife will be tracking down Manny when their house is sold to pay the judgments. This is a great story for reality TV.
why were u having trouble downloading the list of trade creditors.Its pretty simple act to follow??? (downloading)
I saw that myself Thomas, other than reading Stuart’s posts, that one line item caused my great joy. I even sang a little for the first time in months.
What blows me away is the amount of credit people are willing to extend to Mr Fancypants Gant. Everytime I call a lawyer they want my money first, work second and they tell me that “the fund” will need to be replenished periodically.
well I guess for now we wait Till Nov 18 and see what,s presented and go from there
No matter who I scream at or call a crook its the same ugly situation at the end of the day.One thing that dismays me is the amount of people I know invested and most seem to think they will get there money back and actually beleive Gants last email Rant to investors about how all thats wrong is cash flow.that just kills me
The judgements are in favour of Romspen
Allison Barber says:
October 25, 2013 at 6:22 pm
The judgements are in favour of Romspen AJ? what post is this in reference to??
Thomas said that the people who have the judgement’s should put the pressure on, because they will be able to find the assets.
Listen to the call. The CCAA process suspends all collection and enforcement actions. There is no pressure to place on anyone. Wait for November 18th.
Now here is the part that will warm your cockles. Faskens was the firm that worked on the Eron deal. At the end of the day the founder of Eron was charged with fraud and the investors received some of their money back. Although nobody has proven any fraud in this case and that may or may not ever happen, I don’t see Gant walking away from this unscathed. Unless he magically finds a way of restructuring this deal such that everyone comes out near whole, I think that the sheer magnitude of the amounts invested and the number of investors will force regulators and the courts to make him to give up at least some of his gains. Manny may in fact be long gone so who knows what will happen there.
The Allison and Rachelle sideshow nees to stop as it is just harming the actual investors at this point. I pray that the two of you don’t show up at investor meetings and try to distract the issues any further.Let the process run its course and on November 18th we will get the recommendation of the monitor and Faskens and know what to do.
I think that anyone who actually listened to the PWC call and still thinks that they should have Allison and Rachelle represent them instead of PWC and Faskens needs their head examined. The two of you remind me of the robot on Lost in Space running around in circles.
Shut up Gant. Nobody ever suggested that we ‘represent’ the investors. Jeeeeeeees you are one serious dumbass
I see Allison and Rachelle rallying the troops and have done a good job. I do not think they want to represent anybody but just keep the pressure on.
After Paul got details on Gant’s house I take back my assertion that they moved money offshore.If you are a developer who has not protected your house for your wife and kids from business creditors then you are too stupid to have moved money around and the more I look at what these clowns did, they are inept at doing things correctly.
They spent about $1 million in fees on that Partners proxy vote and wasted about $2 million buying Partners shares and accomplished accomplished nothing in the long run. What is worse the unpaid fees are now part of the claims of trade creditors which are expected to be paid by the investors.That is true idiocy.
We need those 2 creditors who have judgments against them to start aggressive collection activity . That process will locate assets now.
As for criminal charges, the only way they will be convicted if it is shown that they diverted money unlawfully from one project to the other. I see the Indians are owed about $1 million for taxes on Duncan. That money was collected by League from the tenants to pay taxes. If the money went into the League account for Duncan and then was used to pay Duncan expenses and that caused the shortfall , no criminal intent. However if money left the Duncan project and was spent elsewhere then no matter how you frame it, theft.
I can see the Indians making it real tough to put DIP financing in place on Duncan. As for Gant saying that the funds were held back to force the Indians to get a service agreement with Duncan, well Maxam appears willing to do a refinancing without such agreement and where are those funds that were held back. I think white man speak with forked tongue and Indians have a clear shot at forcing a criminal investigation. Gant is about to scalped.
I think Gant’s assertion that he “withheld funds” from the Natives is a little facile. Wouldn’t it make more sense that Mr Gant stopped paying the natives and they refused to deal with him anymore? This is as most people are prone to do. Frankly, most of the business people start out very positively with Mr Gant and then end up either suing him or being sued by him.
I think stuart little is a stand up guy
he fully understands the turmoil that the executives at league are going thru
his no nonsense explanations of the problems that management is going thru bring a swelling in my chest of the pride I have to be able to read his brilliant and thought provoking responses to many of the ills that investors claim to be going thru
lets go have a beer and talk about how you understand management
just send me your telephone # and lets get this ball rolling ……..OK
Listened to the call.
PWC and Faskens were excellent in my opinion. Lots of experience and definitely on the ball. We will all have to wait until November 18th for the first report to the court to get the full picture. Adam also mentioned that the $500K people here have pick up on is the payroll for all of League and not his salary.
Shut up Gant. You crook. Gawd you make me sick
I would encourage EVERY investor to listen to the call on the PWC website and make your own determination. PWC and Faskens make statements and provide supporting documents which are the polar opposite of what your are being told here by the people who wish to represent you. Perhaps PWC and Faskens are liars and crooks as suggested but you need to draw your own conclusion.
who suggested they were crooks?
I agree where did anyone say they were Crooks? Not sure if i spelled Crooks correctly as I saw it spelled this way GANT in one place and this way in another ARRUDA so not sure of the correct spelling? anyone know which is correct of the 3 ways?
Sorry. Got my crooks mixed up. Gant is the crook and PWC are just fools. Straight now.
payroll of 500K ? but how many of these people actually worked for the league and not LISI etc.or whoever? Here in again lies the same problem.Money in the bank,Income from properties etc is being used to finance NON league investor issues .These Guys Took 48-50+ million in fees and they charged all operating costs to the IGW reit investors.Interesting because 3-4 years ago when Gant was Bragging about the new upgraded fancy offices they were moving into etc i questioned him where all the money come from to pay for this shit that in my opinion was not needed.he said that it was all paid for from fees etc.and the investors were not billed for this.BS just more BS
Forgot to mention this was after they reneged on the advertised investment returns promised me when i signed up 10-11-12-13-14% never went over 10 and reduced to 7.28 and yet they had tons of dough to build lavish offices etc
Paul, check your email, please.
Stuart Little / Adam Gant,
You have no credibility and you said you are not defending anybody. You liar.
if everything goes according to plan,gant should be living under a bridge when all the creditors are done with him
or maybe he will move in with arruda and the 2 can fantasize about how great they were
I talked to a Investor out of vancouver today.He calls me once in awhile when he wants to vent and iam a good listener.He phoned Gant and asked where Arruda is? He said he,s out of the league completely? I cant understand how that is possible?Also I can not see any monitor letting that debt claim by Arruda ever being honored
that would add insult to injury but all one has to do today is read the news and read about that asshole conservative senator Don Plette out of winnepeg actually has the gall to stick up for the Fat Pig duette of Walin and Duffy so one never knows what another persons view is when in power to be the judge of such things
Liek anyone he is free to quit if he wants. Good news is that he doesn’t get paid anything. If he owes money to League then the monitor will make sure that he pays it like any other debt.
hes claiming hes owed money the way i read it?
besides he can not quit.Its not that simple.he is as liable as Gant is.
Actually its a mortgage claim for $356484.00 and a creditor claim for $8736.00
Interesting as there a creditor claim by a Guy Grant for $3000 out of kelowna where Gant was from
Manny cannot get out that easily. He is a guarantor on loans, and signed everything that went out of that rats nest. He is probably gone, as I said over a month ago, but he is not out, as gant wants you to believe.
Even better then. Arruda gets no more salary and won’t likly get all that he is owed either.
How can he be OWED anything you moron? He took half of over $300M!!!! You really need help Gant. You are so delusional it is pathetic.
Just so we are straight, you saying Manny stole $150M? This went to his offshore accounts presumably?
Shut up Gant
So Allison you want the monitor to fire Manny but if he quits then that is a problem? I just assumed he quit, if all we know is that he isn’t there it is just as likely that he was fired. Happy now?
Shut up Gant
http://business.financialpost.com/2013/10/23/ernst-young-touts-its-talent-as-wannabe-financial-advisor-for-restructuring-of-league-assets/
And Tim Kiladze of the Globe is also good
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/league-assets-asks-investors-for-time-as-it-prepares-for-court-date/article15032719/
I sent a long detailed email to this guy to tell him whats really going on with the double dipping of fees and money lent without a payment return stream etc Be interesting if he replys
Our friend Mr Gant was in the Times Colonist today…
http://www.timescolonist.com/business/league-ceo-adam-gant-vows-change-for-investors-1.668623
I’m glad he’s going to change. A good first step would be foregoing payment for his “services” to fix his own mistakes.
WHATSA MATTER, STUEY? CAT GOT YOUR TONGUE?
heres another deal. The IPU holders and IGW reit holders are getting screwed big time as most all the debters are owed money on the colwood project which has nothing to do with us other than we via poxey so to speak lent them unsecured loans
Has Maxam agreed to the DIP?
Paul; You can now see why DIP is a way to rob the innocent. You need to get the investors appointed lawyer and E & Y and scream . That lawyer is about to suck up $250,000 from the DIP too. Why not sell the Partners REIT shares if there is over $4 million unsecured?That would have created all the liquidity needed. Something is wrong here
You are correct DT.
DT,
I think that investors are better served with legal representation at this point even if it costs $250K. E & Y will cost multiples of that and there is already a monitor in place. I understand that a number of people are desperate to try and prove fraud and hope that E & Y will do that for them, but the existing monitor is also charged with that as well.
In any event, the DIP and Faskens deal are going through and E & Y will not as there is no motion to the court to bring them on.
You are right in that the DIP lender is in a great position. If League successfully restructures they get paid. If League moves to bankruptcy then they effectively get first dibs at the assets as they have first charge.
To answer my own earlier question, E & Y of course is the accounting firmed with the $900M suit against them for their involvement in the Madoff Ponzi.
Every accounting firm has issues from time to time.
This suit? The one that was dropped by the plaintiff? http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-03-26/madoff-feeder-fund-s-liquidators-drop-ernst-young-lawsuit-1-.html
Go through their list of “trades” that they owe money to. Have they ever paid bills, or are they just going to start now? I sure like that they haven’t paid their lawyers, or Norgaard, or E&Y, or PWC or even KPMG! Pretty long list. Where did the fees go?
There are lot of small businesses on the list, and these scammers will likely bury more people. Why is there a line item for Arruda? and a line item for Gant?
Allison: What Exhibit has the tradespeople? That list will foreshadow who will fail like the excavation company at Colwood. It takes a long time to open the exhibits from the PWC site.
I note that the IGW REIT would loan money to failing Colwood and Duncan then the League would charge fees to the LP and withdraw the funds loaned to the LP as payment for fees. Creative way to get paid. As to where the funds went- bloated overhead. One of B.C.’s largest developers with sales in the hundreds of millions has less than 15 employees while League has an army of people.
Also find out who owns Gant’s house and post it. He needs the public pressure. Others lose their homes for investing in this but he keeps his. See what is owed on it too
Click to access leagueassets-022_10232013.pdf
Those Fees are exactly what I have been trying to tell people here for a long time.To me that,s borderline embezelment. How can one take money from a Investment account (igw reit) and lend it to a failing LP like colwood with no reasonable way to show the loan is affordable or repayable and yet They charged fees to colwood for giving them the loan and they charged fees to us for finding the investment.Its just Insane
Here’s the thing: if you or I tried to pull of this crap, we’d be in jail. It takes a special kind of criminal mind to put this thing together.
I don’t have the means to do that search. Maybe Dunbar could do it?
Town of Drayton Valley owed $166,000 ( All they have there is a small strip mall – Dodson Plaza). Is this what Doubting Thomas was referring to? Collected money for Taxes and didn’t pay taxes?
There is a few citys listed as debtors so one would assume they collected taxes from renters but never paid the taxes.I read or heard that they were way behind on the taxes and Indian lease of Duncan also.
$978,000 behind
And over $1.8M to Farmers construction. I remember when they were “pleased to announce a ‘partnership’ with Farmers”. They did that phony partner crap all the time.
I wonder if Farmer’s paid their workers and have to eat this?
Ok here,s the skinny. Gants house is in his name and his wife,s name.There is a mortgage against it from Bank of Nova scotia.A judgement lien by Romspen Investment corp and a judgement by TCC Mortgage corp.
Whats weird is its assessed value in 2009 was 2.6 million and yet in 2013 its only $863965.00 . makes no sense to me? I think it must have been subdivided into two seperate propertys
Another scam. How does a property depreciate after you build on int?
For me this is just more proof that there is no money in Canada.
When you think about it, it makes total sense. This exactly what he has done to the entire business! Just doing his job as a Value Destroyer. Took a 2.6M dollar property and, 2 judgments later it’s worth 1/3 what it was when he bought it. If it wasn’t so frightening it would be funny.
allison? your sounding like a quak(crazy) talking nonesence.Judgements do not effect the value of a property nor the assessed value applied.
You are missing my point.
OK enlighten me as to the point I missed
Thanks
How can somebody who makes the kind of dough this guy has taken out of every deal, and have mortgages and judgements against his property? There is no way it was subdivided; it’s all one address.
Stuart Little says:
October 25, 2013 at 3:11 am
Anyone in an urban area in Victoria can apply for hobby farm status if they sell $2,000 or more a year in goods. Lots of people have stands for eggs, flowers, etc in that area
???Stuart PLEASE. your assessment is not based on Farm status. SURELY your not that dumb?? Your tax cost may be
Your property does not go from 2.6M to 900K because you now sell eggs <
well U know he has a judgement against him for 1.5 million? this most likely what the one is for and and WE all know who TCC mortgage is so?not hard to figure
i dont know who tcc mortgage is you make it sound sinister
c,mon SM get with the program buddy TREZ Capitol Corporation owed 17,000,000.00 thats (million)
I must admit the $78,000 owed to Crawley, McKewn, Bush warms the cockles of my heart.
You can’t say cockles in here. Wayne says
I wonder how Gant managed to get such a low tax assessed value on his house. 13 acres of ocean front property and a huge new house…for under $895K???
Allison: could be assessed as farmland? also in whose name is it registered?
13 acres of ocean front would not be farm land and so what if it was? assessed value of 13 acres of ocean front would be higher than that and it does matter whos name its in assessed value is assessed value name has no bearing
Iam wondering if thats a pre house assessed value? although even that sound,s extremely low
$863,965 $16,965 $847,000 The zoning is farmland, but even so, 13 acres for $17K?
I don’t have the registration, but it is likely in Gant’s wife’s or father’s name
Most likley Family trust would be my assumption but if U dont know whos name the property is in how did you ever get a BC assessment read out?
By address.
Of course.I should know that by now as i have used the BC assess site what is the actual address? and by the way Ahmen
Thanks
It is really hard to find, like an awful lot about Gant. I will send it to you via email. If somebody shoots that f****r I don’t want to be held (too) responsible.
For a second I thought it was on Indian land lol.
Anyone in an urban area in Victoria can apply for hobby farm status if they sell $2,000 or more a year in goods. Lots of people have stands for eggs, flowers, etc in that area
So I have this mental image that makes me smile…Gant selling eggs on West Saanich Road. Haaaaaaaaaaahahahah. Now I can sleep
as posted his name and his wifes name
apropos quote regarding the JP Morgan settlement:
“People know that if they rob a bank they will go to jail,” Kaufman said. “Bankers should know that if they rob people they will go to jail too.” Can we hear an amen on that? Not yet. But the complaint Kaufman voiced repeatedly is now on the table. “At the end of the day,” the senator warned, “This is a test of whether we have one justice system in this country or two. If we do not treat a Wall Street firm that defrauded investors of millions of dollars the same way we treat someone who stole $500 from a cash register, then how can we expect our citizens to have any faith in the rule of law?”
Looking at the cash flow analysis supplied in the PWC Monitors report, the League is going to burn through about $3 million in 30 days, $1.67 million for operating overhead and $1.4 million for CCAA expenses which will be financed by the DIP financing of $1.6 million and not paying any of the mortgages on any of the properties- basically burning equity. None of that is sustainable. The holders of the mortgages will object to the MAXAM DIP financing as MAXAM wants priority to current first mortgages. I think either I do not understand or the the Monitor does not understand the Timbercreek financing as the report shows only about $18 million owed against the Partners REIT shares valued at about $24 million. I think Timbercreek is owed about $29 million and has security as to all shares. Also the supposed equity in the income producing properties is supposedly at $76 million based on book. Having gone through a market valuation of the assets recently, because of Duncan which is on the books over $50 million and a few others held at grossly inflated values, I believe that it is doubtful if the equity is more than $30 million at best.
The investors need their own accounting firm of E & Y now and own lawyer.However someone needs to allocate expenses as the projects and investments should not share expenses equally. Basically many investors who had nothing to do with Duncan are now bearing reorganization and DIP expenses for it and that could be the same for Coldwell. Meanwhile Gant continues to burn off equity in continuing operations and this CCAA which is a screen to hide the failure. An orderly bankruptcy liquidation would be fairer to most investors and save the equity burn of the CCAA and continued operations.
I trust that PWC has done a proper analysis on Timbercreek. They likely have access to documents that we do not. DIP financers always get priority in these types of arrangements, just like the monitor and court appointment lawyers do – this is not a unique deal here.
I don’t think any of us know enough to determine whether CCAA and bankruptcy is the best way to go at this point. Each costs money and each has its risks. The monitor needs to report to the court each 60 or 90 day period and if the restucturing is no longer viable they will state that.
You make a very good point about the allocation of expenses. My guess is that everything will be charged to LALP and then it will pay the expenses from the DIP loan and proceeds it receives from the various entities and Partners as its normal course of business. It would be a good question to ask the monitor though.
Your point also raises a good point about E&Y. Presumably it is the IGW REIT, Duncan and Colwood unitholders who are asking for E&Y yet those are 3 of 150 companies in this proceeding. The other 147 groups of shareholders could argue the reverse which is that they don’t want to pay for an accounting firm for 3 companies!
You can expect all the mortgage holders on any of the properties to fight the DIP financing if it in any way impairs the security. The current application appears to only secure the DIP financing on Duncan.The investors in Duncan need to ask the lawyer being appointed to obtain the 12month income and expense budget for Duncan and every other revenue producing property that League already has for each property. Particularly Duncan as in 2012 Duncan ran at a multi-million dollar loss. Basically Duncan can not be saved if 2013 has the same losses and if Duncan continues in this CCAA then its ongoing losses drag down the IGW REIT because of DIP financing. I think E & Y is needed. PWC et al have a great revenue source and no reason not to use up the DIP financing
DUNCAN LP Mall is a dismal total failure.Part of the accrued debt is the 10 or 11% interest accrument that is owed IGW REIT.Just another useless blow smoke up your ass gant deal(reit loan to duncan)
Accounting firm Ernst & Young is offering to represent investors in League’s CCAA proceedings. For more information, get E&Y’s letter to League investors.
yes we all know that thanks .been talking about it here for a couple days
Unless 2,000 of the 3,300 investors sign on, the court isn’t going to appoint another accounting firm to oversee the work of the first accounting firm. The goal is to try and maximize a return for investors, not incur another million or two in accounting fees.
Stuart not sure whats required in terms of numbers but Ernst says it normal practise to have a lawyer firm and a accounting firm representing investors in these situations
PWC are the captain of the ship so to speak and dont represent one side or the other
I could be wrong on this but what I was suggesting is that the court would be unlikely to appoint a specific firm unless a lot of people asked for them as ultimately the investors are paying the fees. I think that it is different with Faskens as all of the other classes of creditors have legal representation so it made sense to appoint a firm to make sure that the unit and IPU holders were fairly treated.
Hello Everyone,
I too was a little confused by the appointment of Fasken Martineau, they are appointed legal counsel to the investors and E&Y want to be financial advisors, basically they are forensic accountants. So E&Y is still a good option for investors.
The biggest problem I see right now is Adam Gant because the people who provide the financing have zero confidence in him. The 8% interest rate being offered to him is the lowest interest rate I have seen in League documents and that’s only because the monitor is involved. That’s the lack of confidence. It’s epic. When I called him a “value destroyer” I did not come up with that name, a very highly placed person in finance did. I stole it because it fit so well.
If there is any chance of getting the company restructured, the first thing to tackle would be those sky high interest rate mortgages. I have credit cards with lower interest rates than League’s mortgages and that’s just nuts.
To compare the average cost of mortgages in Centurion REIT is 4%
Frankly in a REIT that wasn’t a Ponzi it wouldn’t matter one single iota if people were defaming them. The tenants pay rent, the rent pays the bills and the investors, everybody profits. I’m sorry but landlords are far from a popular group, if they are making their money from their buildings it honestly doesn’t matter what people think. Haha if it did they’d all be dead by now, me included.
That’s not League’s business model, they make money from fees from investors and suck any extra equity out of their projects to unjustly enrich themselves at the expense of their investors. So they need the internet free and clear of warnings so they can get those Google ads going full speed ahead and prey on any seniors or widows or orphans that are unwary.
PWC went out to 11 firms on the DIP financing and 4 responsed with offers. Presumabley the Maxam offer was the most attractive one.
If you read the Centurion OM dated August 2013, they are selling REIT units at $11.66 paying $.82 per annum. That is an interest rate of 7.03% they are paying. Not far off the 8% League is being asked.
I can send you the link if you need it.
skyline Commercial at 9% ROC is a Much better deal in my opinion.If your gettting a 7% return and its considered interest the income tax will kill you.If thats how they treat it.Iam not saying they do
In fairness I didn’t check whether Centurion paid interest or a dividend. I was just making the point that you can’t just look at what a company pays in first mortgage charges. League had many first mortgages at 3.x% but it was the REIT units and other loans that ultimately sunk them.
Actual truth as i see it that sunk the league was 3 fold.1)Greed on the part of Gant and Arruda 2) 1/2 the money invested in League was spent on non income producing
ventures and management(unsubstainable fees) 3) the amount promised investors via 7/8/9 % returns was not substainable because the actual investment propertys producing income did not make enough to cover these amounts plus league overhead
Therefore now when one see,s the whole picture its very clear they were taking NEW investor money and paying existing investors with it .I can clearly see this now as the legague failure really only came to lite in the last year where there was very little new money coming into the league and of course there exspence,s got bigger
THE TRUTH IS THE 2008 CREDIT CRISIS HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH GANTS FAILURES
Can I get a loud Amen?
That is the very definition of Ponzi, and I think that the authorities should also finally see it.
I can’t believe I’m answering this guy again, but here it is.
I am not talking about what Centurion REIT pays investors but what they pay for mortgages.
The multimillion dollar mortgages every single REIT public or private have.
Do you realize that most REITs out there pay their investors more interest than their mortgage company. They use the investor money for the down payments on their property and they finance the rest using a mortgage that costs 3-4% sometimes more for a shopping center. But that money is necessary to buy new buildings because the bank will not finance 100%.
League promises their investors 10%? in their marketing, then sells them secure “GIC like” investments for 5% and pays mortgages of 14%. Anyone who doesn’t understand that failure is inevitable in this context has no understanding of the fact that buildings operate on profit margins of 2% and sometimes less.
The point I am making is that you cannot point to one mortgage in an entire portfolio and make decisions only on that. What Centurion or League pays in mortgage interest on a few high interest mortgages pales in comparison to what they have to pay unitholders who hold hundreds of millions of dollars of even 7% notes. Almost every private investment out there advertises higher than normal yields, even Centurion is showing 12% – 15% on their marketing documents. They have to find a way of doing that or else people wouldn’t invest.
Shut up Gant. If League’s advertised returns were true, it would be a different story. LIES LIES LIES FROM DAY ONE
Allison I can post the links if you need them. I am not the one that has difficulty proving what I say.
Here is a point that you will like however. Everyone keeps mention Madoff here. Who do you think was the accounting firm that was sued $900M for allowing the Ponzi to occur?
Shut up Gant. I don’t need your links. Fact is you advertised, until just a few weeks ago, 18.5% ROI. Just shut up.
And keep in mind, and if necessary go back through all of Stuey’s posts, that his greatest FEAR is that criminal charges will be laid. That would really cost him.
100% agree with you. If Gant or Arruda committed a crime then they should be charged. They should also have any personal assets seized to the extent that those assets were proceeds of a crime. All we need is someone to go to the RCMP or local police with evidence of a crime.
Thank you for registering for today’s 1:00pm PST Conference Call.
To join the call, please dial either of the phone numbers listed below.
Toll free: 855 223-7309
Toronto: 647 788-4929
Once dialed in, your Event Conference ID is: 90525848
The call will last for approximately an hour, with the majority of the time dedicated to answering your questions. We will be recording the call in its entirety and the recording will be made available to investors and creditors at: http://www.pwc.com/car-leagueassets
The League Group of companies will be making an application in Court on Thursday, October 24, 2013 to request an Order for interim financing. A copy of the Notice of Application and an Affidavit from Adam Gant are filed under the Motion Materials tab. The Monitor is currently preparing a report to comment on the application for interim financing, and that report is expected to be posted on this website on October 23, 2013.
The Monitor will also be bringing on an application to have representative counsel appointed for all the investors. The proposed counsel is Fasken Martineau DuMoulin. The Monitor’s application materials contain a letter from Mr. John Grieve, counsel at Fasken Martineau DuMoulin which we draw to the attention of all interested parties. The Monitor’s application can also be found under the Motion Materials tab.
A mailing to creditors and investors is currently underway, and copies of the mailing materials can be found under the header “Creditor and Investor Communications”.
PWC has an update on their website.
Looks like League has $31M in financing committed to pay off the Duncan mortgage and finacne the business in the short term. Faskens has been appointment to represent all investors.
May be hope for you yet on Duncan Paul.
well there,s about 63 million owed on Duncan and it has a retail value of 38 million roughly so Iam not hopefull at all
I wonder just How much PWC will suck out of us before this is over
I know very little how bankruptcy protection works seeing as though I’ve only have closed two co’s ever, and both times paid my debts off in cash, but I’m wondering if PWC insisted on this route in order to ensure getting paid?
Jeff your most likely correct.Iam PWC went in and saw what GANT and ARRUDA were up to and said our way or the highway
Here is My opinion on things.1)I want GANT GONE GONE GONE 2) I want COLWOOD Gone 3) we need to see where all the money is or is not as were all guessing at this point 4) I am willing to let anyone try and make league viable with existing propertys
and slowly sell off at reasonable prices rather than fire sale
IF any of what I said would get me some money back.All Iam interested in is trying to salvage some of my ill advised invsetment capitol.I could care less what happens to gant or arruda at this point in time
PWC is seriously letting a person that has a court order against him for not paying GST in charge of this file ?
Investors will get hosed as lawyers, auditors, Adam Gant, receivers walk away with millions in fees trying to control the onslaught of lawsuits, mortgage holders, IPU holders, Partner’s REIT, contractors and employees.
The sooner Adam Gant is removed, and the sooner assets are sold to pay off high interest rate loans the better. At the end of the day, IPU investor may retain some assets with industry typical mortgages and actually get some money back, in addition to monies received from civil lawsuits or settlements against Adam Gant, the EMDs that sold these products, the appraiser Colliers, the auditor KPMG and/or sales people that sold unsuitable investments to seniors.
I agree KPMG and Colliers all turned a Blind eye as did the CCO the CEO the COO
also the head of wealth manager,s is also to Blame as he would have been right there with full knowledge of day to day failures.
You are so full of it Gant. There is no update on the website for starters, and you are ONCE AGAIN trying to sideline this conversation away from focusing on the facts. YOU have spent all of the money. YOU over-leveraged some crap propertiesusing other people’s money, and now the investors lose. YOU should be in jail
Jail only happens in USA. So far we have no police investigation and therefore no crimminal charges and I personally beleive you will never see any.I wish we would but I dont see it happening.You know we beat up on Gant But that little prick Arruda is also to Blame.If you read the the preface on the DUNCAN OM written by Mini G and saw the promises and claims and now see what they did, man if thats not a outright fib I dont know what is
Ian Thow did time. I maintain, and have said all along, that this thing is an elaborate Ponzi scheme whereby money is raised for supposed real estate investments, investors are promised monthly distributions, and everything is fine until they cannot raise new money to pay old investors. That is criminal; difficult to prove, yes. Impossible, no. Gant made a big mistake when he took money from a grandma whose son is a cop. There are a whole lot of people who have been burned, or who know someone who has been burned. I still think they will not get away with this blatant rip-off.
A credible source say’s PWC has suggested John Grave at Fasken Martineau has petitioned to represent the investors – Who knows how many will petition?
Speaking to Pat’s last point I do know at some point IPU’s investors will be pitted against IGW, because most IGW do not want this wound down as some IPU’s people do, nor will they want assets sold off, again there are those here who want to see it fail, and others who actually want to revived under different management so we can potentially see some principle back, no different than say the Obama-Romney opinions on the worthyness of saving GM, just saying….
Again Allison you run your mouth without even looking. Read the first paragraph and then open the document it mentions. I was going to point out that the document says Duncan has value in excess of its debts but then I knew that Paul would be upset.
Shut up Gant.
oops here is the link. http://www.pwc.com/ca/en/car/leagueassets/index.jhtml
Potential good news for investors yet you are unhappy about it.
I have said this many times, and will keep doing so, they are people here who prefer to see the League fail than say re-organize and survive, that’s fine, everyone has their own objectives and opinion(s), and it may all be over on Nov 18th anyway but it does seem like a number of investors make posts and threaten actions here continually against their own self-interest
I’m still hoping it survives, as an IGW REIT investor it’s the only way my wife and I will ever potentially see any of our principle, and that interest(s) me more than revenge and or menacing words against Adam Gant or anyone, at least for the time being, in the short term
I think the next big question, do we trust PWC, and the lawyer they appointed, or are we better served with someone from E&Y or elsewhere?
Stewart?? Your post quote:
I was going to point out that the document says Duncan has value in excess of its debts but then I knew that Paul would be upset.
If for some unbelieveble situation that Duncan has Value in excess of its debt(which it does not) how would that upset me?
Jeff i hear what your saying and thinking and dont blame you but till we get an accounting of this whole mess its hard to say what will happen as far as PWC appointing?? a lawyer? It reads as :The Monitor will also be bringing on an application to have representative counsel appointed for all the investors. The proposed counsel is Fasken Martineau DuMoulin so I see it as these guys have applied to PWC
its not written in stone(yet). Iam all for it as I have already said to reorganize and survive if it would see you and i and others get some money back.I just dont see where or how this could happen.There,s like 160 million gone in fees, bad loans and bad investments out of 300 million invested.Take all the over leveraged propertys etc where do u see any money that you may get back? I dont see any
again stuart please explain this statement??
“Duncan has value in excess of its debts but then I knew that Paul would be upset.”
its worth maybe 38 million(maybe) and has 63 million in debts???
I was teasing you Paul. Obviously you would like to get your money back.
I have no problems with people taking a position for or against League. What amazes me is that the people who want League to fail are the ones trying to organize lawyers and accountants for the investors who obviously want League to succeed.
Fasken will be the lawyers. These types of motions are slam dunks unless someone files a brief in opposition right away.
The new PWC documents state that the total amount invested is now $342M which is a little higher than what we thought previously.
OK thanks(haha) i kinda new i was missing the punch line somehow there
343 million? thats a little better for sure
People, you need to stop paying any heed whatsoever to this Stuart. Think about it:
1. who railed against Rachelle for posting the CCAA link last week?
2. who said that no one should pay attention to it, if it isn’t there on the website
3. who had prior knowledge about the PWC documents…and why?
4. who is the only person in this entire blog who EVER sides with League
5. who sidelines every commentary…constantly…
If I was doing this for some crazy malicious reason, the question is, why? What do I have to gain? What do Rachelle or Suzi have to gain? Diddly squat. AND, no one has ever offered any of us a red cent to do the work that we have done and continue to do on behalf of the investors.
On the other hand, think about what that Gant creature has to gain if ALL of you buy into the BS yet again. He will take his fees, his commissions, his salary, keep his house, keep all of the trust money and on and on.
Follow the money. And find that Arruda creature.
No conference call?
People,
Both Adam Gant and Emanuel Arruda are on Facebook, Twitter and LinkedIn. Sign up and follow them. Send them reply and spread their dirty deeds and lies worldwide. They cannot lie to people and pretend their backgrounds are clean.
Apparently they can as proven by their activities over the last few years.
Watch the movie “Catch me if you can” about the pilot con-man that cashed Pan-Am cheques for years, or the movie “Chasing Madoff” which shows that even when evidence was available and in the newspaper the SEC and investors did nothing. The Bernie Madoff scheme collapsed only once Madoff himself alerted authorities (perhaps due to threat by some very dangerous Mafia type investors).
More on Bernie Madoff and a similar scheme by Allan Stanford is on google.
As a % of assets lost, roughly $200M, as a % of BC’s population, roughly 4,000,000 the League case is similar in size to Bernie Madoff’s: $50 per BC citizen (using 4,000,000 BC residents as an example) or 350,000,000 Americans or $18B in Bernie Madoff’s case.
The number of League companies seems to be either 104 or 105. Which is it? And what happened to League Dubai?
I find this site so so slow – anyone else have the same problem?
what matters? 104 105 106 etc DuBai said goodbuy?(maybe) hopefully as just another waste of money. Seriously Iam sure it shut sown or hey maybe that,s where Arruda ran to(hahah)?? Site speed seems normal to me.Lots of stuff for it to load
I hate to interrupt the Adam Gant ‘lovefest’ but has anyone yet rec’d the phone number for this conference call, it’s 1:00 Toronto time and nobody I know has yet rec’d anything
I think it would be prudent for an investor to ask PWC what can be done to end all funds for litigation purposes with regard to any non-defensive action(s) since IMO our money should not be spent on suing the likes of AJ and Rachelle, nor anyone else
Just spoke with PWC.
League is hosting the call.
“The call-in information will be issued “just before” the time” is the only answer I could obtain from the spokes-person.
Jeff not sure but the entry deadline was only 17 minutes ago so I assume they will start contacting people shortly there of?
Jeff,
Adam and Manny have sued AJ, Rachelle and the others personally so even if League backed out it wouldn’t necessarily stop anything. I think that the monitor would have to determine whether ongoing comments were continuing to hurt the company and its prospects for restructuring and make a decision on that basis. I would think that if they felt it was no longer a concern then they wouldn’t want to keep paying lawyers.
gant says he will step down if asked ,ok im asking
best news Ive heard in a long time
can he be believed?
what about arruda?
I think Arruda pulled up his skirts and ran weeks ago.
Iam all for that.The main thing I want to see is he takes no more money or fees at this time and hes not involved in signing checks or oking payments etc. He may(For FREE) help them sort out the mess he created but without any authority at all to buy,sell,trade nada.
I believe that this is a necessary first step(gant leaving) in a long process of maybe just maybe resolving this mess,hopefully the creditors will see current management replaced and not being in such a hurry to shut everything down,,after all they want their money and dont really want to be saddled with properties
I also am in agreement. I am not a lawyer.
If you read the CCAA submission (S-137743), it repeatedly uses the term “Petitioners”. Not a single person(s) is identified (only Schedule “A” – which is Corporations, Limited Partnerships, and one Trust). So it appears that this process, CCAA, is only to identify the entities.
In the “Plan of Arrangement” section, #3 states “The Petitioners will have the authority to file and may…..”
In #4, “….Petitioners shall remain in possession and control of their current and future assets, undertakings, and properties of every nature and kind whatsoever…..”
These are just two examples of the use of the “Petitioners” term. The 17 page document if full of this reference. There is only a “monitor” who is supposed to apply any controls.
My point, I don’t know who the “Petitioners” is/are, but I can guess this to be Adam Gant and/or current managers. I would also want to know who this “monitor” is or will be.
It appears most agree there would be a problem with keeping existing management.
Personally, I do not trust anything Adam Gant is doing now, nor what he may have plans for in the future. I don’t believe one person can be the cause of this failure in management, so I would also have to include my mistrust in those managers around him.
So what is the process to have the existing management group changed to the investors satisfaction?
I am reluctant to post this because everyone inside League can read this and start working on a rebuttal.
I have been in business for over 30 years and one of the main rules of running a business is to make more money than you spend.
If you cant do this then you should not be in business or get someone in who can make you profitable not everyone is capable of running a profitable business
SM what u say is so true.Here,s what I fail to understand IF gant was as earnest + honest as he like to protrey himself which in my opinion he is not, why would he take such huge fees over the last few years especially in the last two when he saw things starting to fail.WHY would he take money from Investors and try and ressurect a previously failed project (Now colwood) that he knew full well would never ever be able to pay the 10-12% interest on the loan never mind ever see principle returned?Obviously he saw League starting to fail over 3 years ago when they reduced the 10% to 7.28% to Zero on reit units YET he still was like a PIG at the trough when it came to Him and his midget sidekick.Same deal with Duncan. WHY did he take money and do the same(similar on smaller scale) thing.Hes like a stock gambler.U buy a stock and u screwed up so U keep investing good money after bad on the same stock to average down and before u know it you have no good money left ,But u still have the same bad stock,only u have only more of it.
The first thing PWC needs to do is shut down all those useless fancy offices that we are supporting across Canada and get rid of 100 of 120 people working for the league.One normal office in Victoria and staff to manage our existing properties is all we need at this point in time
Does anyone know the Harris/Fraser deal at all? Is it able to pay its own way>? who responsible to pay the 3.7 million owed?where are its offices located?maybe just give it back to the guy and walk away at this time?
sm, where did you hear or read that?
Not suprising but many of my linkedin contacts have quietly dropped any reference to any employment with League from their profiles!
Employees have been told their pay cheques due Friday are now being delayed until next week.
There are going to be a lot of victims of League. Employees were also encouraged to invest.
Oh boo hoo. How in the world could you work in that place and not know what was happening?
I’m just a dumb investor but really these question(s) blow
Why will no one ask the obvious one
Why did the TSX refuse the listing?
My take on it is this: The prospectus revealed the true nature of this ‘business’. It was in black and white for all to see. However, Securities think they (and a whole lot of other people) are going to look really bad when it all comes out, and I don’t know about you, but I think the onus is on them for knowing that there were 105 insolvent companies (not the 70 or so that we thought). The judge looked at the same paperwork. So did OSC. Securities know that this should have been stopped years ago. If heads don’t roll, they should. Again, I am warning everyone that there could be a white wash of the whole mess. This BC government can’t afford any more bad press; neither can the Federal government.
No arguement
I still want to hear it from a 3rd part like PWC…
I’m interested to see what PWC ends up recommending – At the end of the day I’m afraid what us average investors think, or say, or rant, isn’t gonna make a difference anyway, IMO the creditors will decide whether this thing fold(s) or gets re-organized
I did however feel real bad about the last caller – He did not seem to fully grasp that his IPU payments were not to continue anytime soon, he rambled a little incoherently but he was also the only one to get a nice shot at Adam with regard to league mis-management and blaming only the 2008 credit crisis
I will remind everyone PWC seemed open to questions via e-mail, no reason why some the questions posed here over the last two years, like my question re why TSX refused, and or the O/S loans, can not re-directed via this 3rd party
well for one thing the prospectus time limitations expired (and that has to be refiled) before they satisfied all the TSX requirments.Iam sure there is more than meets the eye on that though and I,am sure it will all come to lite here some day soon
Besides all that there has to be a viable market for the stock and to me there was none and i,am sure the TSX boys read into this also.TSX wont allow u to list worthless paper based on phonie or suspect financial,s (as I read them and my opinion)
Jeff quote:
At the end of the day I’m afraid what us average investors think, or say, or rant, isn’t gonna make a difference anyway
Jeff thats why its SO important that we have Ernst or whoever represent us
“Ernst & Young Inc. would like to act as financial advisor to the investors (through the steering committee) during the CCAA proceedings. We want to ensure that the investor interests are served and protected during the proceedings.
sent in my info to e&y today
hopefully they can inform us whether the reorganization they come up with will sink or fly
SM just so u know or maybe I misunderstood your post just now as there (ernst)not involved in the reorganization proposition.Their there to montor things and most likely make suggestions etc on our behalf if they dont agree with PWC whom is the one doing the proposel
right you are
Interesting day.I get home and have phone message from A guy I have known for 30 years
Turns out he,s also got money in the league.Lives in same town as me.$300K in IPU
Not a clue as to whats going on till last couple days.He called the league and they told him all is well and nothing to worry about.I laughed in his face and told him the true story.Hes a pretty sad dude as I type. He said they acted like it was all business as normal.
You think that they would have had the guts to tell him the truth knowing that it would be all over the media.
denial is the healing medicine for all shisters is what i have seen in my life so far
I expect them to deny responsibility, I didn’t expect them to deny that they were in CCAA.
Gant says that he will step down if asked.
http://www.timescolonist.com/league-ceo-vows-change-for-investors-1.668623
That’s not how I read the article, Stuart. He was asked if there would be changes at the executive level and said:
““All of that is on the table for review. There’s nothing that is sacred. What we are doing is coming up with best game plan, which includes how we staff, manage and run the business going forward. All of those things are up for evaluation,” Gant said. “If there was somebody better, that was more committed to getting the most out of this and better to execute the plan, like I said, there is nothing sacred for me.”
He started his “if” statement and didn’t end it. He is only conceding that everything is up for review. He doesn’t finish his thought on what would happen if someone better or mor committed was identified.
Iam not 100% certain they either denied or did not denie CCAA they just made it sound like thing,s were being worked out and all was well
QUOTE: “He doesn’t finish his thought on what would happen if someone better or more committed was identified. ” That is exactly how GANT operates.He talks but never defines his talk so after talking to him you will walk away with more questions than answers.I have been down that road several times with him.
Someone Tell me.IF GANT was the go to guy now to run league in CCAA what does he now know that he did not before??
He now knows he can snow people even better than he thought. He couldn’t manage his way out of a paper bag. This liar who claims to be an ‘expert real estate evaluater’, and claims to have 10 years management experience…all at League where he managed to take 105 companies to the brink of bankruptcy. Lord. If PWC cannot get that they are morons, too.
AND Surprise surprise,
Also in 2003, BC Hydro privatized the services provided by 1540 of its employees in its Customer Service, Westech IT Services, Network Computer Services, Human Resources, Financial Systems, Purchasing, and Building and Office Services groups. These services are now provided under contract by Accenture.[15]
This company name is also not on the 105 company list. I found this in an email dated September 9th 2010.
League Expands Global Reach into Middle East Region
We are pleased to announce an international expansion with the opening of a League regional office in Dubai under the name League Corporation Group FZ LCC Dubai. This opens the potential for increased investments from abroad in communities across Canada, and so much more.
PWC is having a telephone call from investors
Status of file as of October 21, 2013
Further to the status update of October 18, 2013, should you wish to partake in the conference call slated for 1:00 pm PST, please register to take part in the call, so that the company can address any technical issues prior to the call. The deadline to register for the call, will be at 10:00 am PST, Wednesday October 23, 2013. Register through this link:
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1_i9gMEc9gvZ_3HfEOj1MYtBFB2TQDjOZdCaNcMsf94M/viewform
As many investors need to register as possible.
Thanks for the info Rachelle. For the sake of the actual investors here, I hope that you don’t try to dominate the call with accusations and criticisms and instead let PWC run their process. With so many people potentially on the call they may decide not to allow questions at all if things start to break down.
My main worry is that Because Gant is as slick as he is that Him and PWC dont start to bond so to speak and he will try to make himslelf the victim in this deal let me make that clear.Thats Gants Bigest problem.He thinks hes done no wrong
I hope PWC keep a distance from him where they run the show and not him
That is a legitimate concern Paul. The guy is a good salesman. He will be trying to sell himself to PWC as the guy to run the show. I am hoping that PWC is shrewed enough to see through anything like that and appoint the best person to support recovery for the investors.
Stuart my gawd we actually agree on some things.Ernst&Young want to be retained as a CCAA financial advisor for League investors. good bad or indifferent anyone??
Paul, I still don’t see any money in there for anyone but secured notes. E&Y will charge big fees, and I think that the route Rachelle and DT have suggested (the lawyer who got the investors into the queue for that crooked ‘pastor’) is the way to go. He knows what he’s doing, and got the assets seized and the pastor is in handcuffs! You really all need to go that route, or there won’t be anything left.
Lawyers suing someone and Financial advisor overseeing a CCAA to me are two different things.We need to see how much money is there,where its going,what we actually own if anything,whom has secured first and second mortgages etc
I think this is a must have for us to be financially represented at the CCAA hearings
yes I realise their there to make money but one cant represent himself
AJ do you even care if what you post is true or not? Nowhere in the article you posted does it say that the Pastor was arrested or even charged for fraud. The assets were not seized they were frozen. What this is is a class action lawsuit with investors claiming that the Pastor and others took funds from the company. There has been no criminal action pursued unless you can show otherwise.
sounds like he should have been arrested? sounds like hes 10X as crooked as the league gang? Kinda surprized he has not been charged though.
Boy does this ever sound oh so familiar ??
FCAA alleges, close to $13 million was diverted to two other companies under Aitkens’ control between 2007 and 2008 without ever informing investors.
Aitkens then signed a series of promissory notes from another related company, Harvest Capital Management, promising to pay Legacy a total of $20.1 million, plus interest.
I think they may have spelled it wrong? its spelled Colwood/Duncan (hahaha)
(purpose of the notes was to invest the money on Legacy’s behalf, but the FCAA said the money has never been paid back.)
IPU and IGW REIT investors should be getting communication from the League re the bankruptcy protection – League is calling this a ‘cash flow problem’ stating there are no issues with the balance sheet – Oh Vey
yes I read that show how sick this puppy really is? also states there lots of asset value left? ok where is that? maybe he means their family trusts(haha)
email Kevin.B.Brennan@ca.ey.com to get form etc to sign up for representation on the CCAA steering committee at the hearing
Look if there is any evidence that Gant or Arruda stole money or are hiding assets then by all means get together and explore your legal options. At this stage hiring lawyers and accountants to go looking for fraud is in my opinion a huge waste of money and just duplciating what PWC is already doing with a full team. Let them do their jobs and then make a decision after you read the report.
Rachelle and AJ have already reviewed thousands of pages of material. If they have found any evience of fraud then Gant and Arruda would be in cuffs and you would have lawyers lined up to take this case on contingency without ANY COST to the plaintiffs.
Um. Who do you think AJ is? And frozen or seized, means the same thing to me.
I agree with Stuart that Rachelle has done a great job but should hold back the rhetoric against everybody. Rachelle may be right in her assessing blame but many can not face reality and it turns them off. It is like calling Bush & Cheney war criminals- on all facts they are- but the crowd goes against you if you try telling them that. Many do not understand what happened to them and are still drinking the poisonous Kool Aid.Tthey can not cope with the rational position that they got screwed and thereby stay on the side of the person who screwed them. Shouting the obvious does not change their mind and turns them against you.
I see no reason to keep Gant. There are many competent managers who could replace him tomorrow. I have been involved with other receivers in more complex real estate work out deals and best thing that happened is that prior management gets the boot on day one. Remember there is a controller and other senior managers I also do not believe PWC will have a cogent solution. There is no equity left and Timbercreek will be pressing that point as it could lose money if there is delay in liquidation.Even after Timbercreek takes the Partner shares, it believes that it is facing a shortfall, despite having a blanket debenture. There are several properties where the mortgages are past due so the banks will also be pressing and have rights that the CCAA can not stop from being exercised. Duncan will go to holder of the first .Colwood will go to the first and to Timbercreek to whom the first appears to have subordinated.
DT,
Your assessment may very well be right. If nothing else it may be that Gant has lost so much credibility with everyone that he needs to go even if he is of use. One thing is certain and that is that the longer this process goes, the more will be eaten up in fees. If there is a way to clean this up quickly then that is best for everyone.
For what it is worth my bet is that Gant and Arruda wind up losing everything anyways – not because they will be sued by unitholders but because they have written personal guarantees everywhere and creditors will get their money.
I can’t help thinking you may have missed the blog post today on Greater Fool http://www.greaterfool.ca/2013/10/20/carrion/#comments I don’t really travel in the “politically correct speech” circles.
Doubing Thomas quote:
If I were Partners I would be sweating it if the League has been collecting rents on Partner’s properties and has all the funds in a League account. There are going to be a lot of expensive lawyers going against the CCAA.
Now I really find this extremely interesting because i never realized all the rent money from Partners reit went in a Gant run Bank account Holy shit what if? (no dont go there)
PAR shares did a big tumble today
Question I presented to EX league salesman:
I find it Odd that the broad that was the CCO is not being raked over the coals on this league deal>Did u ever engage her in league business and whats going on?
Answer from a actual EX salesman at league:
She drove me nuts. The biggest bitch ever and totally rude. Also under qualified. It was always an issue with her. She wouldn’t return messages and ignore us. That’s a whole other issue though.
Rachelle: The Unsecured Credit Committee in the Harvest CCAA did one important thing in its short existence- it convinced the receiver/trustee Ernst & Young that Ron Atkins who ran Harvest had masterminded a fraud. Once that happened E & Y took a different approach and began to document the wrong doings. The material E & Y uncovered helped in the Harvest Litigation. So I repeat get the Unsecured Creditors Committee. Gant will no doubt be kept in place as SM suggests but that works against him if PWC views this as a fraud as it then asks questions and looks for who took the money. That was the basis in the Harvest case as E & Y could demonstrate the wrongful taking and then the need for seizing assets could be shown to the court.The good thing here that all the mortgage holders on the various League properties including Partners will be attempting to demonstrate that League does not qualify for CCAA .Also they will want to obtain special orders based on the rights in the mortgages. If I were Partners I would be sweating it if the League has been collecting rents on Partner’s properties and has all the funds in a League account. There are going to be a lot of expensive lawyers going against the CCAA.
I saw your comments on your blog about who is to blame. The KPMG opinion is interesting as all audited statements from 2008 onward should have contained an opinion that the League business was not sustainable. I think BCSC is negligent as whenever an exempt distribution is reported to BCSC on the required form it discloses to BSCC the buyer. All BCSC should have been doing is randomly calling various buyers and asking if they received the OM, did they read it, what other sales material was presented and what does the buyer understand. BCSC would have discovered the fraudulent sales pitch and shut the League down. If that KPMG tax adviser could not understand it or saw the problems with the business model then any other adviser would see the same. Finally as for that lawyer you encountered, the ignorance of a lawyer of reality always prolongs litigation. Get sued a few times or sue people, lawyers generally are not that bright.
DT,
I really doubt that League, or any other property manager for that matter, deposits rent cheques for properties that they manage into their corporate operating accounts. All of those accounts are under the control of the monitor in any event so League isn’t going to be cashing anyone’s rent cheque. Partners is down in price because of the prospect of having 15% of their shares hitting the market at fire sale prices.
You are right in that all creditors are going to be jockeying for position. The role of the monitor is to make sure that all creditors are treated fairly but everyone needs to watch out for themselves, attend the meetings and read the documents.
The role of the BCSC is not to call investors and ask them if they read OMs. Perhaps the rules should change but that is not what they say today.
Should professionals involved in this process have done a better job of gatekeeping – damn right. Should they have notified the BCSC or authorities if they found anything questionable – sure thing. Does that mean that everyone involved was on the take – you can answer that yourself.
I completely agree that the Unsecured Creditor Committee is an essential first step, Ernie told me that is how the investor list came out into the public as well.
First I would like to categorically state that I will no longer be responding to Stuart Little because he is carefully diverting attention from real issues and being negative and misleading.
Second I called Ernie Callow today, and he shared his experience with me, the next step is to get a unsecured creditors committee recognized to oversee Price Waterhouse Cooper and the League group of companies. A lawyer will be required.
From what Mr Callow said it didn’t take too long before the unsecured creditors committee was required by court order to communicate with the investor list. That made the UCC ineffectual
Next the Harvest Litigation group was formed and they have now certified their class action. It’s been very expensive with the group being run by all volunteers and the funds collected being used solely for litigation. They have managed to seize the “pastor’s” assets which is the first step to recovering the unjust enrichment received by these people. All investors have kicked in 1% of their invested amount toward recovery.
Before I post my official complete recommendation, I need some more investigation.
The investors didn’t seize anything. They had the assets frozen while the case was being heard. Big difference.
What investors should do is listen to the PWC presentation and come to their own conclusions. PWC are experts at this and their role is to act in the best interest of the creditors. What you need to do is read the materials, ask question and make sure that all classes of creditors get treated fairly. A lawyer isn’t going to get you preferentail treatment by the monitor. If you can prove fraud or unjust enrichment then a lawyer might be able to get personal assets included in the funds available for distribution but as Rachelle said that is a time consuming, expensive process and investors could be forced to pay Gant and Arruda out of pocket if their lawsuit fails.
In fairness to you Rachelle you have done a good job organizing information and people, My concern is that you will form a group and then it will be derailed by your defamation charges and lawsuits.
I am personally not big on lawyers, not sure why the investors can not form a committee without one, but regardless the key here is one has to have a unified voice, and be representative of all the investors, or the judge and PWC will not recognize or take the UCC seriously
Here’s where I likely differ from most investors here, truth is if the league can use PWC to get financing at Collwood and Duncan to replace our loans, that solves the biggest issue dogging the value of the IGW REIT, we do stand a larger chance of getting our principle back, in that sense, Adam might the best person, short term, to manage this moving forward, but only if there is a newly devised ‘investors and PWC’ check and balance system, where it is recognized future decision(s) are required to be approved by investors, in or der to satisfy their best interest(s)
If you disagree, fine, but I would ask some here to check one’s emotion(s) and think like a business person, IE what’s best to way get the best percentage of your principle back, not what’s best to force this whole thing into permanent bankruptcy, where in fact the lawyers will get paid the majority of our principle
I think that everyone here can agree that the best outcome is that League survives and investors see a return on their investment.
JEFF the Number one thing your missing here. Colwood debt is at least 4 times what its net asset value is? Who would lend anyone say (eg) 75 million dollars on a property with a rusty basement worth maybe 20-30 million dollars at best.I have read and seen figures on Colwood and they all seem to be in this area.Anyone know what its worth? Its like Gant figures Duncan,s worth 50+ million.I can Guarantee you it wont sell for 38 million
Why would you care who lends them money? If they can get money in and you can get money out then you should be happy right?
Does anyone really beleive even if the league survives there will be money for the investors? on what do u base that wild ass assumption? They took in 300 million.They have sucked over 50 million out,We lost over 30 million last year on bad investments. we will lose 20 million on Duncan we will lose 75 million on Colwood
CCAA will cost a couple million,the failed IPO cost a few million, PAR shares are most likely lost to a loan guarantee . Properties we own can not even support themselves.Who knows how much H+F cost us to buy 5-6 ,million never mind hidden cost and aquisitions.They(properties)also are most likely worth barely whats owed against them.
Jeff, that is exactly what Gant wants you to think: only HE could possibly move this thing forward. You believed him before.
your right I dont care who lends them money I have to agree.I just can not see anyone in their correct mind would lend them a red cent .If there was money and people out there ready and willing it would have happened by now.
Collwood is a non issue due to the injunction by Grizzly for GST. No one can do anything with it until Grizzly is paid or the lawsuit finishes. Grizzly has registered himself on title as well. I have the files and can send to anyone who will email me. That is my layman’s understanding of the files anyways.
I cannot form a group or be a meaningful part of it except to share every single piece of information I have because I am not an unsecured creditor. Many investors have been looking to me for ideas/answers and I take that trust very seriously.
That is not how it works. The CCAA process will take precedence over a pending lawsuit / lein. Even if he is successful, Les will become an unsecured creditor.
anyone who agrees to keep these 2 on during or after a reorganisation deserves to lose their money
anyone and I MEAN ANYONE could/would do a better job
If you want any chance of getting anything back you need to kick existing management to the curb and get fresh experienced help,for 500,000.00 I am sure we could get knowlegable and experienced management
this may be the one and only chance
Easier said than done as unit and IPU holders are not shareholders so they are not entitled to vote anything. Best you can do is vote against any restructuring or offer made as creditors.
An ironic twist is that Partners had planned to fire League in December and replace with internal management but now they cannot due to the CCAA action. As a result League will continue to act as manager for partners for the foreseeable future.
then vote against the restructuring, does anyone really want more of the same down the road?
Everyone should at least hear PWC out and find out what the options are. Like it or not Gant, Arruda and the other execs are likely going to be retained for some period of time and paid for their services. It is possible that the monitor will parachute someone in like they did at bear Mountain but the reality is that the structure is so complex that it will likely only be Gant that can run it properly. All expenses will be controlled by the monitor.
gant CANT run it properly what do you think got us in this mess?management has to go
Let me restate that as you are right in that he has done a lousy job running it. He is the only guy that understands the structure.
to keep him on because he is the only one who understands the is a fallacy
given a short learning period new management could figure it out
I say again keep him on and your going to get more of the same
SM,
Hard to argue that the people who sank the ship should be the ones to sail it again. I am sure that we will hear more on Wednesday. Hopefully they allow investors to ask questions and it doesn’t break down into chaos.
I have to agree with SM. Gant has to be removed for any thing of any good to go the way of the investors.This whole mess is caused by The Incompetence of two rodeo clowns called G and Mini G
I wonder if KPMG signed off on financials that they knew were inaccurate and painted a rosier picture than reality and could be sued?
hope springs eternal
If pwc can do this
if colwood can get financing
if duncan can be resurrected
if,if,if……….get real
I’m all for suing everyone and anyone at the point our principle is lost, but I would try and refocus everyone’s energy on what we can do as investors to protect our interests and see if PWC can help us get our principle back, or a large pct of, without the need for lawyers and legal action
Stuart is correct, we need to stop acting against our own interests, and do what we can to see the league survive, that’s our best chance to get out fully or partially redeemed, and or get back distro
until we can be redeemed
As Rachelle and AJ would say, consider those older investors of which this investment was their life savings, we owe to them, if not to us, to try and salvage what we can for them, alot of them do not have our insight, or the means, or even an internet connection to speak for themselves
Just saying….
I would totally agree
I want my money back as much as anyone here
but the investors need to have a say in matters from here on in and not let the current management continue on this reckless course
I would be in favor of letting existing management stay but only with investor oversight
THis one really really kills me.
quote:
Our assets remain strong, but unfortunately we have insufficient cash flow to meet our ongoing operational needs. As this is a cash flow issue and not a balance sheet issue, we found it necessary to initiate the CCAA filing in order to rebalance the Company’s operations.
Our assets reamain strong???????you take 300 million from investors and have
like 100 million in questionable assets and you call that strong??
rebalance?? well try returning the millions you have received (taken) in fees? what ever happened to we dont get paid till you do. these guys I swear to Christ himself are on on crack
QUOTE:
Adam Gant claimed that ” More recently, a number of investors asked to redeem their units, something League attributed to these individuals being “more interested in higher-risk investments with higher returns.”
This f–king prick is a real legend in his own mind is he not? Did he seriously beleive that people wanted to redeem their league investments to be able to buy higher risk/better reward investments?? Going to Vegas and playing craps would give you better odds than anything this dink ever offered as an investment
unbeleivable he had the balls to say such things
I agree with both you and Jeff. I suspect that most people choose to redeem when League stopped paying distributions. No doubt that some people choose to redeem when they read on blogs that League was running a Ponzi and that Gant and Arruda were siphoning money offshore.
Does anyone know this? they were siphoning money offshore? really?
Of course not but it is a claim being made on this board.
I see that Rachelle has finally gone on tilt. Not content with one lawsuit she has now started swinging at everyone remotely involved in the whole sad League affair accusing regulators, accountants and lawyers of “backroom deals”, “supporting a scam”, “fabricating reports” and raking in lucractive fees at the expense of investors.
Now I know Paul that your reaction is going to be “if the shoe fits” but holy smokes talk about swinging for martrydom. By the time lawyers finish with her she will be filing for bankruptcy alongside League. You guys are all going to kick into her legal defense fund right?
Paul if you look at the proposed prospectus, one of the new companies was incorporated in the British Virgin Islands. For now lets just say that a full forensic accounting will track where the funds ended up.
I agree with you POI – In that interview Adam is showing he does not understand his so called ‘member-partners’ aka investors
The real truth is that investors signed up in droves to redeem commencing June 2012 because we stopped getting paid and or a return on our investment as promised
The big question is how are some of us going to inform PWC and or the judge how the investors really feel about this investment or are we going to leave it to Mr Gant to speak for us
You need to get with Rachelle right away. She is trying to connect with the lawyer who represents investors in this suit below. The ‘pastor’s’ have been frozen.
http://www.calgaryherald.com/business/Former+pastor+assets+frozen+million+lawsuit+moves+forward/8860520/story.html
Every investors should be on that call. It will be the first chance to get an honest assessment of where things are at and cut through all of the BS.
Read the bottom of the link you posted AJ. Every class action member had to sign an undertaking to agree to compensate the defendants if it was determined that their actions caused undo hardship. Seems like a pretty bad idea to me. Not only is the lawyer not taking the work on contingency, the investors could be out even more money if the judge rules against them.
Adam Gant claimed that ” More recently, a number of investors asked to redeem their units, something League attributed to these individuals being “more interested in higher-risk investments with higher returns.” Adam if you read this blog you know you are lying. Investors want out because of your mismanagement and lies. People put money in a private reit know damn well in advance it’s not a liquid investment. We want a stable investment with regular distribution which you failed to provide per your own credos and that’s why we want our money back. Not because we want to put money in some other higher risk investments with higher returns as you claimed. You Liar.
if stuart liitle is adam gant as some claim then don’t you think your time would be better spent getting a return for investors rather than wasting your time posting here?
Why did you never answer my questions regarding Pratten, Stuey?
How would I know what Pratten owns – you were the one that worked for him.
Just curious…because he took at least three companies into bankruptcy, and I think the authorities might like to know if he had assets he didn’t disclose. Everything these guys learned, they learned from him. He was just caught earlier in the game. It isn’t much wonder if I confuse Gant and Arruda and Pratten and Stuey, actually.
Garth Turner has a great expose of the collapse of the League REIT here –
http://www.greaterfool.ca/2013/10/20/carrion/
Garth notes that they are continuing to pump their product on their website, even though the CCAA filing claims they must stop selling securities. No cease trade order yet from the B.C. Securities Commission.
had I known about this file 5 years ago I could have saved myself a lot of money
League was very facile in having every negative opinion about their shyte investments shut down, and very facile at creating public drivel: their ages, their experience, their education, all of it.
Well you can ask the board operators why they shut down their sites and it goes like this. People like AJ started posting allegations of fraud and criminal activity on the boards. They were asked to provide evidence to back their comments and they did not. The site operators, who for the most part are volunteers operating the sites for free, decided that it wasn’t worth paying for an expensive legal battle out of their own pockets so they blocked further comments.
You can start by asking the good folks at vibrantvictoria if you don’t believe me.
ya, Gant? Here’s another one you aren’t going to like one bit:
http://www.timescolonist.com/news/local/group-behind-1-billion-colwood-project-files-for-creditor-protection-1.664541#comment-1090394926
That is not true the law is very clear in this regard, site operators are not liable for comments posted by people on the board. Otherwise Yelp and other review sites would be dead. What actually happened was the Adam Gant purchased advertising on the Vibrant Victoria site and a condition of the lucrative advertising contract was to police the board and remove any negative commentary regarding League. I say this and I also have in my possession a copy of an email offering me advertising dollar on my site as well. An offer I refused.
I was never, ever asked by ANY one at VV to provide ANYTHING. Gant and Arruda bought ad space and any comments regarding the financing of CCC were erased. I think it was shameful on their part(s). The 5 year old comments (very informative) are still on the site; they didn’t erase those (which were all about the financing). But, after they paid for ads, nothing new was allowed.
Rachelle. This is another instance where you know a little bit of information and misconstrue it. Site operators ARE responsible for the content on their sites. There is a provision however that provides safe harbor if you remove offending material once you have been made aware it exists. This is precisely how Youtube and Yelp and others operate.
The issue that VV was that people were posting defamatory material continuously which made the role of moderating the forum a full time job. You were asked on many occassions to stop posting the material and you refused which is why the moderators shut down the forum.
Don’t take my word for it, ask Mike at VV.
Wrong wrong wrong. Really Stu, get your facts straight. I was asked not to post things that were off of the topic of construction. Period.
That is true for copyright infringement, not for policing of opinion. What you have at Vibrant Victoria is a forum owner who cannot be bothered with informing themselves about free speech issues and too intimidated to fight back. That’s why they call SLAPP suits the chilling effect of libel. Basically he bent over for Gant. I hope he feels ashamed now that he made his deal with the devil and helped Gant rip off seniors by silencing others who might have spoken out. At no risk to himself I might add. I can’t post links but search this for more information baglow-v-smith-removing-the-defamatory-sting-in-internet-debates
So the VV folks should spend their own hard earned money defending your right to defame someone? VV ran a forum on League for many years before you and AJ came along. There were hundreds of comments warning people of high risk investments and the technical issues with various REITs. Then you come along and start calling people criminals and scammers and get the whole thing shut down and you think that is a service to unitholders?
There are a lot of professionals who should be extremely ashamed because they are complicit in their silence and were happy to collect their fees and whore themselves out to Gant and Arruda to deceive investors.
They are like like the guards at Auschwitz watching the investors retirements being put to death by Gant and Arruda.
This is a report that went to a senior partner at KPMG Dennis Auger in 2008
Early Fees Payable are Substantial- The property acquisition fee is 3% of the property purchase price by the REIT/LP; this is not inconsequential, especially early in the life of the LP when profits appear to be very sparse.
Internal cash and subscriptions are paving for distributions – The past records show that
disbursements to the unit holders are coming out of subscribed cash vs. earned profits (since there usually is none or very little). This is obviously not sustainable. There is not enough information on the rental portfolio to analyze the net profitability of the properties.
Rachel !!! IF this is True this is a bombshell ready to go off.Man this could be the critically damning evidence we need.
I’ve had it in my possession for 5 years. No one listened to me.
Yep I got it from Allison
another thing I have seen or received any feed back on is HOW COME were not also pissed at the CCO? (chief compliance officer) This person had they been honest and ethical and doing their job should have seen underhanded things being done months if not years ago??
Or they did nothing wrong and the CCO did his/her job.
I actually guffawed when I read this Stuart. Thank you for providing me with a little Sunday night levity.
What I enjoy is adding up all of the people that you folks feel must be criminals along with Gant and Arruda. There must have been dozens of people including the lawyers and the auditors all involved.
Anyone who went along to get along is complicit and possibly an accessory. (Not the original trustees at Partners)
Stu, you left out financial advisers and brokers.
Rachelle: The investors need to form an Unsecured Creditors Committee.You do not need Ernst & Young, just a good lawyer. A lawyer named David Mann who is in Calgary at the international law firm of Dentons- offices in Vancouver- did a great job in the Harvest Litigation /Legacy Communities CCAA case in Calgary. Same massive losses by fraud. Someone should contact him 403 268 7000 or 403 268 7097. They will have same law practice in Vancouver. That law firm is not conflicted as it does not represent any other parties or mortgage holders.
Somehow corral a group of investors and get a leader to start this. The fees of the lawyer for the Committee can be taken out of the CCAA case.
Doubting Thomas, (I wonder if he owns Prestigous Properties?
DT, what do you make of no affidavit from Arruda?
Who thought Partners REIT would not be affected?
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/news-sources/?mid=ccnm.20131018.201310180905460001
Its not effecting them at all.They just want to get there ducks in a row because they would love nothing more than to be able to rid themselves of Adam Gant and company.
Yup, and when they fire Gant, they will pay him $3.5M
The old trustees who got turfed due to investors inaction or maybe even proxy irregularity must feel like they dodged a bullet right now. Kudos to them for being ethical in the first place even if it cost them their jobs.
(from the Financial Post) Pending a resolution of the CCAA, at least one analyst has changed his status on Partners REIT. “At this point, the full facts of the situation and the implications to Partners are unclear; therefore, we are moving our rating for Partners to Under Review,” said the note.
Looking back at a email exchange with Gant on Duncan LP.its almost amusing his answers
Quote question to Gant”:On Oct 20, 2012, at 1:28 PM, “paul dunbar” wrote:
Have you two guys got any logical explanation how the DuncanLP estimated by you at 26 million total(rounded figures) and 2 year time frame and now its been 4 years and over 53 million in costs and rising?
GANTS REPLY: We built an additional shopping centre which increased the asset base (London Drugs anchored – Duncan Village)
Have you seen the shopping centre lately? It might be worth a trip down.
Adam Gant
League Assets
(250) 920-8003
My Reply:On Oct 20, 2012, at 2:33 PM, “paul dunbar” wrote:
Adam
seriously why would I be interested in driving to duncan to look at a mall that i so far have been fucked out of a 1/2 million dollars that was used to built it? to me thats would add insult to injury. you may have built additional buildings to increase the asset base but it sure as fuck did not benifet any LP unit holders and in fact hurt them(us)
Paul Dunbar
GANTS Rely:
Paul – it seems that no matter what answer I give you the response is always further anger. These email exchanges have not been productive for either of us and I am starting to feel like we are doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. In the short term relying on the update letters that go out every six months will likely be the most meaningful for you.
Adam Gant
League Assets
(250) 920-8003
funny no Duncan Mall Updates ever after this that I recieved?
Seriously, AG and TLC did such a poor job of managing the property that he lost half a million dollars of your money, yet doesn’t understand why you might be angry about that. What a goof.
Yes what a goof.Like he really exspected me to dive 600 miles round trip plus ferry coats to look at a building of which I lost all my invested money. But thats his mindset
I have lots of nonsensical emails from him.Hes not playing with a full deck in the sense he still thinks all will be well in the end.
it is true they ran a very slick and colorful campaign ,and I am really pissed at myself for getting into this
but then I think of all the smart people who fell for the Nigeria money in the bank scam(and still do)
have been talking with ex employees who also questioned the way the company was being run to bad more of them don’t come forward
Pat Dunn has said hes more than willing to come forward
You know people who fell for the Nigerian scams? Lord. I am in the wrong business.
the name of the game if you are going to invest is diversification
never put all your eggs in one basket as the saying goes
Looking back now if I would have bought “Skyline” I would still be a millionare.Man that company is just booming along. Extremely well run and extremely honest.
What there doing and have been doing for the last 8 years is what Gant originally told me the “LEAGUE” was all about.Its also funny when I look back about how phonie I really thought the Blue book was the first day I read it.I should have been smart enough to realize then it was all smoke and mirrors
another very well run company is centurion reit
Personally if I had money in here I would be taking some serious action. Time for crying is over.
What initially started this whole saga for me was an interview I did with Greg Romundt. Last night I ended up looking over his Offering Memorandum with new and more suspicious eyes and I’m happy to report that even after all I’ve learned about fraud, Centurion REIT still looks as stable and ever and makes money from their buildings to pay their expenses and investors. If I were to invest the only other thing I’d do is check out their actual buildings and see if they look well cared for.
Appears very solid. MER is higher than Sky and ROR is less 7% verses 7.75% and 9% on sky commercial .pros and cons iam sure on both sides.
Since Skyline Apartment REIT is now claiming at 30% return for investors (since Feb 2013) it is by far the best deal out there now as well – right Paul?
Paul and other investors as well, do not blame yourselves for being deceived by League, you are far from the only people who have been. There have been very well respected employees, CFO’s galore, salespeople, trustees. Then all the lenders who have lent money into this mess thinking the company was a going concern. Then Profit magazine and Times Columnist. Next there was the Press Releases, the paid for analysis by professionals, the case studies that were designed to deceive.
After all if the BCSC and all the other securities commissions can’t see through them, how can the widows and orphans, and regular people ?
BCSC has one job to do: regulate the markets. They are staffed with lawyers and accountants, not regular people.
Rachelle; Use your wine to enjoy a good meal and not to look at this mess.I looked at the filings and the business operations and concluded Gant & Arruda were idiots. I have built shopping centers, office buildings and warehouses and at no time did any of my projects have a negative cash flow 60 days after completion. Currently every project they did is losing money. I have followed this blog since Suzie started the blog thinking I could buy some of the properties along with a group that I have once League collapsed but none of these League investments meets any investment criteria,
No other time needs to be spent by anybody looking at this League CCAA motion.
I believe that Trez Capital also known as TCC who holds the first on Duncan will spend time and effort to document and to show that there is no possible way for League to come up with a proposal in the CCAA to resolve the losses and to continue.Also all the mortgage companies on all other properties will work to grab the rents and show that the League can not be resolved by a CCAA. TCC can show money was collected from the tenants at Duncan to pay property taxes but the funds were used elsewhere. I think what everybody needs to do is is force TCC to investigate and prove that League collected money from the tenants at Duncan and that the money that was supposed to pay property taxes but instead was used by League at the direction of Gant for other purposes and converted and League used the tenant’s money for other purposes, also known as criminal conversion. Now the RCMP are generally useless but dress in those nice uniforms(costumes) for gay parades but they might just see that League collected property taxes from the tenants and used the funds for other purposes. You will never get Gant & Arruda for securities fraud but criminal conversion of tenants funds-looking like probably yes until further notice.
Gant is saying that League never paid the taxes to the Indians because of the argument about the lack of a service agreement with the city of Duncan. So great, pay the funds collected from the tenants that were supposed to pay property taxes into the court. You know as well as I that the funds are gone and there is no way that League can pay.
I repeat,the investors need to have a creditors committee in order to control PW who acts independently of the League.
I heard the construction crane at Colwood is being dismantled. Too bad as it could be used to string up Gant & Arruda.Maybe they can be hung in effigy.
I note that it looks like local Victoria contractors are owed over $8 million on the Colwood parking garage. What a destruction of innocent companies. Hopefully I am wrong.However it shows even prudent businessmen can get sucked in.
Thanks Thomas. The words “criminal conversion” should be music to investor’s ears.
I am very familiar with buildings and financial statements for buildings and how to make them pay and fix them etc. I too am shocked at the complete lack of fiduciary responsibility, they don’t seem to make money at all from their buildings. That was striking to me from the get go. They also have an embarrassing amount of leverage.
I had a lady approach me from E&Y to represent the investors. We need a steering committee first from what I understand to try and get as much value as possible from the assets. Is that what you mean? Are there other companies who do this kind of work?
I am even more convinced than ever that the only way investors are going to get a dime is to have criminal charges laid. You need to find a good criminal lawyer.
I’ve also been thinking that there should be some responsibility for investors losses on the parts of the banks, of course BCSC, insurers, and other institutions that had to have known what a hideous mess this thing has been for years. Remember people that we have just in the past few days seen what BCSC has known all along. IMHO they must be held responsible.
Rachelle, there are no assets. There is only debt.
I agree with Thomas on the securities fraud as iam pretty sure BCSC would have laid charges already if there was enough evidence
BCSC is a typical bloated bureaucracy getting paid fat salaries and pensions (YOUR money, once again) that don’t want their own boat rocked. Imagine how bad they will look when this all comes out. They need to step in soon, or I will personally take it upon myself to start a campaign to have them taken out of business.
seems strange that arruda seems to have *disappeared”*
makes the mind seem to ask if some comments here are correct
what do you think stuart?
what i want to know is where is that little cunt Arruda? no one seems to be blaming him or shout at him and hes as much to Blame here as Gant
Paul, that language is entirely uncalled for. You have crossed the line.
you never lost 1.6 million dollars to dispicable scum bags such as Gant and Aruuda
I did and hes a liitle scum bag cunt EOS
Well, it diminishes you.
thanks as I feel diminished after these cunts sucked the life out of me.
You can’t draw the conclusion that because someone sets up a family trust they are trying to hide money offshore. STUART???? are you really that fucking stupid as to beleive that statement????
Why don’t you take 5 minutes to read about a topic before you spout off about things you know nothing about. Of course right you have tens of millions of dollars in play money so you don’t need to worry about things like estate planning.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/personal-finance/home-cents/the-truth-about-family-trusts/article615586/
estate planing you moron is acceptable.Deceiving investers for personal gain which i feel these two scum bags have done is a different story
Its interesting that people whom lost money agree with me and the” on the side “monitor monkeys actually try and make excuses for these two scum bag cunts
Has anyone but Thomas tried to wade through that petition? It’s making me sick. They made me sick before, but this is just beyond belief. It is a thousand times worse than I thought.
Yes I have waded through some of it of course and later I think I will try to give meaningful names to the exhibits and post them on my site. I think wine will help 🙂
Alison: I located the WESBROOKE OM on the B.C. Securities site- it is spelled Wesbrooke . Looking at it, the League et al has no obvious interest in it other than as GP. So why was it involved in the first place, just to earn fees? However it appears to be the best project completed probably because the other participant Allegro knew what it was doing and had management input. The limited partners put in $5 million and the project is valued showing over $10 million in equity of which 80% goes to the initial investors, the remaining 20% to Allegro. Also it does not appear that the League is owed any money because a new first was put in place in early October to cover all prior loans.This requires further investigation.It is too amazing to be true, surely the League must have screwed it up somehow.
As Quest Mortgage has a first and second on Colwood, it would be interesting to see if it used an appraisal other than Colliers when it did the loan and it it did were the values a lot lower than Collier and was that shared with Gant. Basically if he knew of a lower value by a third party then you have the basis for fraud in any OM that used the Collier value or a NAV of any higher value. Hopefully the Quest Mortgage appraisal gets released in the CCAA, especially if Quest pursues the foreclosure..
We could always ask Altus Heyer, remember years back in a great fanfare they were appointed League’s bright new appraiser…
Here’s my favourite so far: There are several LPs that were created with Gant and Arruda as owners….this was an oversight.
If Quest is first and second, where is Firm Capital? I know they bought $30M in units in the REIT (not sure which one it was; this was last July, just prior to the distro stop). Firm was on the CCC site a couple of weeks ago. Story is they are easy to get money from, but they turned Gant down cold.
Rachel: You have basically won because Gant in his affidavit does not blame a blogger for defaming League and causing its collapse. He blames other matters so therefore you caused no damage according to Gant’s omission of blaming you. What he should be forced to do is to admit is it was an investment scheme whereby they could not find new investors fast enough to pay off old investors which was required because of paying interest on loans for raw land, the continual need to loan money to poor investments and bloated overhead, that is, it was a Ponzi scheme.
As for the movement of assets offshore, the ownership of all their interests in a family trust is indicative is an asset protection plan used by persons to escape personal guarantees. Coincidental to the trust will be another offshore trustee and offshore bank accounts. Obviously a good lawyer set it up years ago and I am sure he would have instructed them to keep other personal assets offshore. Nothing illegal if done years in advance which is what occurred here.
I will reiterate, the investors need as a group to get a lawyer, form a creditors committee and take over or at least impose conditions.
One thing to note is that Westbrooke Retirement LP is not included. It appears to be the one good investment with maybe $5-6 million in equity. In other words they are keeping it for themselves.
so let me get this straight
us investors have to keep paying the guy who got us into this mess in the first place
but now we have to pay a monitor to watch him?
anyone can lose money I dont understand why he has not been replaced
Can we track where the money came from for Westbrooke?
They hired a third party developer to do the work on Westbrook. That is just too funny
99.9% of family trust are not set up offshore. Protecting assets is one aspect of a family trust but so is something simple like avoiding probate fees.. You can’t draw the conclusion that because someone sets up a family trust they are trying to hide money offshore.
In defamation law the plaintiff generally has to prove damages as you suggest. The exception to that is when the accused claims a criminal act in which case damages are presumed. The criminal act claimed here was that the plaintiff was running an illegal Ponzi scheme and was defrauding investors.
Your entire point is moot. The company has claimed CCAA and the rot will soon be revealed.
Yup, they were running a Ponzi. It collapsed. Like all Ponzi’s eventually do.
I don’t see how a company filing for CCAA protection makes it a Ponzi scheme, fraudsters or money launderers. The only issue at stake will be whether a judge accepts your definition of the various terms or the legal ones. At least AJ has the common sense to try and settle the case and move on.
Stuey, since you are so in the know, can you tell me where Pratten sits in all of this? Does he still have a stake in Londondale and other LPs?
And, BTW, I never heard from the lawyers, so there is no retraction.
paul you are just wasting your time with stuart little he is just looking for an argument
why will gant get 3.5 million?
Stuart there seems to be a lot of things that are obvious to everyone concerened except you.Do u post just to read your self serving drivel? or what?
regarding Skyline if one bought the apartment reit shares when they sold for 10.00
and now there worth 13.25 along with the Dist paid monthly then yes U would have easly made 30%.20 % on unit growth and a constant 9+% distribution.A grade two student could easly understand that.There is more upside to the commercial side of things I feel but most likely a little more risk. But its certainly not a good deal for a asshole like you.
We know League didn’t accept your settlement offer. All I said was that you were smart enough to try and settle. In my opinion they should have taken your offer to shut this site and just focused on Rachelle. Two dumb moves on League’s part in my opinion.
Stuey, you really need to stop displaying your ignorance. I have no control over this site.
Remember the Canadian Financing Forum AJ? You posted under Suzie. Need to keep all of your aliases straight. Besides, League has all of your IP addresses from WordPress.
Wrong again. I posted under my own name. Why would I bother to try to hide? Stuey, you really need to come clean. Only an insider would know about what IP addresses Gant has.
I only have one IP address, and despite being coached in how to hide that, I prefer to be open, honest, above board, real, human, and all of the other things that GANT is completely incapable of being.
AJ half the aliases used on this board are yours. You only started using your own name once League found out who you were.
Gant. Your attempt to sideline the discussion yet again is just pathetic.
I’m sure most of us are avoiding taking any ‘sides’ in the legal dispute between Rachelle, AJ, and the league, and most of us have to come to different conclusions than Rachelle and AJ as to why the League is failing, however despite all this it should be noted, most of AJ’s and Rachelle prognosis has turned out to be correct, and most of the League’s promises to it’s investors has turned out to be incorrect, that was once was just an opinion, voiced on numerous blogs and websites, but now based on the recent filing and bankruptcy protection and the halt in distributions of both IPU’s and IGW, it’s becoming a fact, that at a minimum the League has not done well by a majority it’s current member-partner’s, if it has prove us wrong…..
REMINDER to INVESTORS re PWC conference call
A conference call for creditors and investors has been scheduled for Wednesday October 23, 2013 at 1:00 pm during which additional details will be provided and investors will have an opportunity to ask questions. Conference call details will be posted on this website on Monday October 21, 2013.
IF Jurisprudence were brought into this equation in this situation these guys(scum bags) would be staying in the same hotel as Bernie madoff
Iam not avoiding anything.They in my mind have simply outed two bad ass people and For the most part i think they also both turned out to be mostly correct on everything.Had I read this blog two years ago and absorbed what was being conveyed I would have saved at least 300K or more.
Rachelle; Even though you have been sued do not aggravate the situation, be conservative but keep up the humor.. I bet the law firm that acted for them is a creditor and will be withdrawing from the case. for non payment. The moment they do saw write a letter putting them on notice that if the case is dismissed or not pursued you will be suing them for malicious prosecution and seeking $2.6 million in damages and copy it to the provincial law society stating that as it is the insurer you will be seeking compensation from the law society.The astute law firm will negotiate.to have you go away.
Why would anyone want me to go away? I’m charming, witty and have a scintillating personality. And modest.
You left out good looking.
If Rachelle was rationale or listened to lawyers she would have stopped posting as soon as she was served. All she is doing is providing ammunition to the opposition by making claims which can then be used in court against her.
The other thing her lawyer would have told her is that now that she considers herself the lady who took down League, not everyone might be as happy about it as she is. The grandma who read her post and didn’t invest is likely happy, but one or two of the 3,300 who have money at stake might blame her for their loss. Posting your picture, name and address online is probably not a very wise thing to do.
That sounds like a threat to me.
Sorry Stuart
No rational thinking human being could possibly assign blame to AJ or Rachelle concerning why the League parent co is seeking bankruptcy protection
Even the League itself in its own filing assigned blame to the credit crisis of 2008, clearly that and bad investments choice(s), including bad loans, and a faulty structure that could not sustain the 2008 crisis and investment choices are the primary reasons
stuart your nothing but a blabber mouth spewing your unwanted opinion amoung people whom have been badley burnt by Gant and arruda.No one like,s you nor values your useless bloviating opinions here.
Stuart, this is going to shock you. Not everyone is a stupid as you think they are; yes, even some women are smarter than you. I know how hard you have tried to have this thread shut down, to no avail. Now all of your skid marked tidy whities are out there for everyone to see. You are referred to in the market as a Value Destroyer. You are considered a joke. A clown in cuff links. When I first heard the story of you running down the street in your pointy toed shoes to escape an investor’s questions, I had you pegged for the crook you are. It is my fondest hope that you see jail time. I told Manny he was lucky he didn’t pull this crap down south. You better kiss the Canadian ground you are standing on.
Gimme a break. Even Garth referred to Rachelle as dumb on his blog, is he threatening her too now?
Too funny Stuart and you are making me laugh
Garth wrote:
Sometimes bloggers get sued, especially those dumb enough to post under their own names. With their pictures on the top. Who try to speak the truth.
Garth is being sarcastic and employing tongue in cheek humour. Garth and I both use our real names, and have our photos on our blogs. I am a big fan of Garth’s and I am thrilled to be mentioned in his blog.
Stuart, you are a comedian, but you don’t even know it. That’s what’s funny.
Quote: I think that the requirement is that an OM be available for investors to review if they choose.??
But is it not a leagle requirement that thier investor be told of such document and thats available for review? and what it pertains to and reason why it should be taken and read through.I for one was never made aware of such doucuments,I was Never offered one and never received one EVER thats a fact.I will sign a affadavid and swear on a stack of bibles in front of supreme court judge of canada on that one if i had to
I read one subscription agreement the other day i signed and saw where after the fact there is a notation saying I was sent a OM 2 months later.This was a photo copy because they had never sent me my signed copy in the first place.I got this about 1.5 years later
The OM were posted on the securities websites.
Not all of their OMs were on the securities sites. Come on Stuart, do you just open your mouth to change feet?
You only a require an OM where you are soliticing funds from non-accredited investors. Name an LP or REIT that you believe accepted funds from non-accredited investors and did not have an OM available?
Thomas, I am already sued, I don’t have to avoid saying anything. I won the injunction and the right to say what I want. Will they continue a defamation suit? As you mention when people do not have any money, it is scarcely worthwhile. I have never hidden the fact that I don’t have “money” in that sense. I probably would have taken their initial letter more seriously back in January if they hadn’t written their claim for $ 2.6 million.
I do you see your point about what I said, and you are right of course. However, the authorities have a way of finding ways to charge people if enough pressure is put on them.
Will League continue the suit who knows. Your credit report probably shows an action for $2.6M against you so you may want to clear this up one way or another unless it doesn’t make any difference to you.
Stuart,
Let me clarify back in January I received a lawyer letter from Theresa Tomchak and that was for $2.6 million. This current lawsuit by Kate McGrann is for an unspecified amount. Maybe more or less, that is unknown at this time. What is known is that currently Allison and I are owed costs for the injunction that we won.
We won so somewhere in there, we must have mentioned something that swayed the judge. We won even thought we were self represented against a top law firm. I would bet that if it comes to that, we would win the case for defamation as well especially in light of this new evidence, that they are insolvent, a point we hammered home to the Judge many times in the hearing.
Even when Jeremy asked me when they would file for bankruptcy, I wrote that it would be in October and here we are on October 19th and they filed for CCAA.
I do not regret anything, and I’ll gladly have a judgement against me if it means that one grandma bypassed this mess and has her retirement fund still intact. The only reason any of us have rights at all is because some of our ancestors got brave and fought tooth and nail for every single little inch of progress. I’m proud to be part of that tradition in my own little way. I’d rather lose and owe $2.6 million than be a milquetoast coward that lets people with no integrity and no morals bully me.
There are worst things than owing money.
Thanks for the clarification.
Rachelle; I see your argument but never comes to fruition.Tthe problem with your contention is that the104 companies failing is because of the inter links between companies, There are not 104 separate instances. As for the number of investors, again you need to show a link between projects and that involves who developed the sales pitch and who failed to disclose facts in the OM.Hard to support your case although it is very logical that it happened. In any event there is no money at the end of the rainbow because they arranged various trusts offshore and onshore to shield assets. In other words not worth suing. You might get the lawyers who created the OM but then you need to show the lawyer suppressed facts or failed to uncover facts. Very expensive to sue lawyers. At one time Gant et al mentioned insurance for employee misfeasance and it would be interesting to get the actual policy to see if it covered negligent misrepresentations. Then there would be money to be collected. Sadly to say the investors are screwed. It is interesting to note that you and Suzie foresaw this. I like the ironic humor in your headlines but you should be more cautious in your language to avoid lawsuits although I admire your courage but lawsuits are emotionally draining. Gant appears to be one of those motherf###ing evangelicals who have a stick up their ass and believes his sh## does not stink. I think it is abusive to have gone after Suzie as she correctly analyzed in a very logical manner what occurred.
How do you know that Gant and Arruda have moved money offshore? Do you have proof or are you just guessing?
How do you know they have not? You ask other people for proof but you provide no proof. Just empty talk.
Iam willing to bet that they have moved millions offshore.They have taken more than 50+ million in the last 4 years plus wages and exspenses
Two things, from someone who knows little how banckruptcy protection works
I wonder then if Rachelle and Allsion should not petition to be recognized as creditors if in fact you are potentialy owed funds on the courts first decision
I wonder if the IGW investors could not petition to submit a formal request that Gant/LLIS not be given $500,000 and dismissed as manager(s) since it can be clearly proven they have not done a good job managing the pool
Us dumb investors, in both LP’s, IPU’s and IGW are likely not aware what rights we have in this process if any
Third
There will be one of those infamous League/PWC Conference calls starting Oct 23rd, another opportunity to ask Adam and PWC the hard question(s) about Collwood, Duncan, the loans, etc
So po’ed I can call you a crook and it is up to you to prove that you are not? Gimme a break. The only “evidence” offered is that they have family trusts which obviously makes them crooks and they must therefore hide funds offshore. The dots all connect.
AJ and Rachelle were not awarded costs on the petition. “Costs were to the cause” which means that costs will be paid by the ultimate loser in the case.
I just want to make a point here regarding fraud and non-payment. I’m not the police so I cannot lay charges in any case. However, I believe the following points are still valid.
1 – If I have one NSF check that is not illegal, but if I have bounced 100 checks there is pattern of intent.
2 – If I have one company that claims CCAA that is not illegal, but if I have 104 there is a pattern of intent.
3 – If I take money from one investor and my company fails that is not illegal, but if I deceive thousands there is a pattern of intent.
3.5 – If one investor says they did not ever get an OM that is one thing but if 100 do that proves a pattern of deception and intent.
4 – The bar for civil proof are lower than for criminal proof, OJ Simpson was acquitted from criminal charges, but he was found guilty of civil charges.
If you have one NSF it is illegal if there was no money in the account at the time the cheque was written. I could be wrong but I don’t think that the requirement is that an OM be delivered to an investor. I think that the requirement is that an OM be available for investors to review if they choose.
In any event there may very well be cause for a civil action for misrepresentation. I don’t think anyone here is stating otherwise.
Paul: You need to show Gant and Arruda had actual knowledge of what was being said to allege any type of fraud. If you look at how everything is structured you can see they insulated themselves in order to blame people below them. However if you can find a couple of sales agents who can say Gant and Arruda were present at a meeting and the sales pitch was discussed or there were complaints previously and they knew of the sales pitch, fine. Just owning or managing the company will not make you responsible for a sales person’s fraud, the culprit must somehow actively be involved with the sales pitch. The thing about the OM’s is not what they say but what they do not say, such as the inter company loans to develop property. That can be fraud by omission but then it becomes hard to say that at the time you bought the investment if it was in the OM you would have acted differently. Basically a fraud action is hard because the person listening to your complaint says you should have asked more questions and you the victim are responsible. I know it makes no sense but that is how it goes. In any event no use laboring the point, their money is well protected so quit harping on it. Get a group together, get a lawyer, form a creditors committee and see what can be salvaged. Arruda is probably in a place where he can tax shelter his profit and keep the assets away from the court. Gant’s money is in a family trust protected from creditors. You can examine Gant on his affidavit and ask about Arruda plus PW has bank records and you will be able to see money moving out of the businesses to Arruda and where it went so wires to foreign accounts can be found.
The complexity of this is mind boggling as well as the gross incompetence- building a shopping center with no services contract, starting construction of a major project with no financing;borrowing money on raw land with high interest and revenue no return,lying about GST, lending money prematurely to the seller- think about that- in two instances they lent money to the seller prior to closing. a golf course in New Brunswick.This is beyond belief and now Gant wants a $500,000 priority lien in order to to stay to manage.
Doubting Thomas? based on your very detailed reply to me which i read with Interest if what you claim is all true does that not show intent was there to defraud if things went as bad as they have? I also agree the $500K lien he wants is hard to beleive our court people would allow such passage
whats this about wanting half a mil? from who? from where?
Gant wants a $500,000 priority lien in order to to stay to manage.
who the F–K wants this POS thief to stay and even manage even the shit house??
The Mayor of Colwood just described the bankruptcy as “a little glitch” on the news
anyone have any idea how and why Gant has 104 companies involved in what we knew as the league.ca
Paul asks a great question
Perhaps we should all call our League sales assoc or contact Monday and ask the same question?
Perhaps we should also ask why the funds we lent and or invested were used to loan to other co’s also owned or managed by the league and or Adam or Manny personally and not used to buy existing cash generating real estate
We should also ask when we all be informed of the impending banktruptcy
This blog sometimes is great and very informative but we’d be further ahead if some of the better questions were directed to the source, say Adam and or his staff
Seriously? What makes you think Gant is going to start telling the truth now? The ‘staff’ is leaving, left or being sued, and Manny is long gone.
Managing one good company can be a challenge for someone who is experienced and knowledgeable. It was all done to be as convoluted and complicated as possible in hopes that no one would take the time to figure them all out. He was almost right.
Gossip is Tim Kildaze at Globe and Mail broke the story today either on-line or will in paper Saturday. Google if you care to find
It is not at all uncommon to have individual properties set up under their own corp shell. Anyone in development would tell you that. It is done to try and isolate liability between each entity. Now if the parent fails then …
THOMAS?? U SAY :TAlso quit using the term fraud in the criminal sense as to them on this site. Misrepresentations maybe. The frauds were by the selling agents as those agents sold you the junk and it appears many investors were conned by the agents.
REALLY NOW?? Gant and Arruda were the selling agents the way I understand things
Does anyone know how to post as an attachment the League Asset Petition for CCAA? I downloaded it but do not know how to share it on this site but everybody needs to read it. Basically it is bull sh## and a clusterf###. Things like they built the Duncan Mall on Indian lands but then discovered the Indians had no utility service agreement with the City of Duncan- like gross negligence on the investors. The first mortgage on Colwood was due last year but despite that they built the garage and started the tower -like dumb and dumber. They are asking for a $500,000 directors lien in priority over other claimants- really who needs the morons. Also they want to pay out on the purchase of those 2 investment advisory businesses they bought. It should be tough luck for the seller.
It has to be noted a limited partnership (LP) can not claim CCAA protection but they are asking the court to protect the LP. This is just one big litigation mess that the mortgage holders will attack that concept in opposition to the motion..
The investors should ask for $20 million of key man life insurance on each of Gant and Arruda with a suicide waiver- quid for pro. if you are so valuable to this deal then give the investors life insurance.. That is the only money the investors will see
The investors need to get together and pool funds for a lawyer. Quit squabbling as you are about to get screwed over in this CCAA matter..
Also quit using the term fraud in the criminal sense as to them on this site. Misrepresentations maybe. The frauds were by the selling agents as those agents sold you the junk and it appears many investors were conned by the agents. Suzie was kind enough to set this site up and she does not need the hassles of litigation
The links are on Rachelle’s blog. Tell me, please, what is the difference between an agent selling this load and being possibly held responsible for the fraud, and Gant directly selling this load, and NOT being fraudulent? It makes no sense to me.
Suzie is already in litigation, so that particular horse has left the barn and frankly I hardly see that League is going to pursue a lawsuit in which they cannot possibly collect any money. Only stupid people do that and now that they are in creditor protection, it seems obvious that we were all right to voice our very valid concerns and warn the public about these scammers. So Adam could be as butthurt as hurt as he wanted to be and sue who he wanted to sue when he was in control but now that the monitor is in control of the purse strings I doubt this foolishness will continue.
Furthermore, now that this entire mess is unraveling and the rot is starting to be revealed, all the shit is going to hit the fan. And it isn’t going to be pretty or smell good and it is my sincere belief that by the time this is over Mr Gant and Mr Arruda will be wearing metal bracelets.
I hope he gets the cell next to Ian Thowe and the CEO of First Leaside.
Partners REIT’s general partner is IGW Pub. IGW Pub is the sole shareholder of LAPP GAM who asset management and property management to Partners REIT. In other words, Gant controls Partners REIT.
Gant doesn’t control Partners the Trustees do. IGW Pub is a contractor to Partners and can be replaced if and when required. Partners has already signalled their intent to replace IGW in December.
Right. And we all remember how much power ‘trustees’ have against Gant.
are the par shares not already being used as collateral for other loans?
and again if partners is dumping igw in december why would they provide loans to an insolvent company,this whole thing is so convaluted that I dont think anyone really knows what is going on and that includes the principals at league and pwc
I believe the PAR.UN shares are being used as security for the $40 million Timbercreek loan. Also the dumping of the manager was an action brought forward by the old trustees. I am not clear on if this position was reversed by the new trustees. Of course Adam is nowhere near Partner’s now, he has been completely removed by the company in their documentation.
Us dumb investors likely know very little about high finance and commercial real estate bank mortgages so I personally appreciate all the educational posts, even if it’s gossip and conjecture
Regarding fraud and intent, I will say this, I agree with Stuart, the issues the majority of us have with the league seem rooted in civil law than criminal law, the emotions aside of potentially losing large sums of money
Where I continue to disagree with Stuart, is that I still believe we all have a potential civil case of gross mis-management and mis-representation
We thought our investment was being used to buy existing commercial retail ‘malls’ and buildings earning annual cash returns as their promotional material indicated but in reality it’s looking more and more like our principle was diverted to replace what the banks would no longer fund post 2008 and used by the League to secure bank loans for the trustees and mgt co’s own interest ahead of the interest of the IGW unitholders
A civil suit claiming fraud may be a waste of time, ditto a suit claiming one lost money, but a suit against the league that forces them to defend their investment choices and explain to a judge how they were supposed to benefit unit holders, and why they loaned our money, to other co’s they also oversaw, instead of purchasing 3rd party real estate may in fact be a winning proposition
i have to agree with you 100% that is exactly what I thought we were investing into
If you could demonstrate that Gant or Arruda used company proceeds improperly for personal gain then you might have an argument to try and extend liability to them. Rachelle states that she has thousands of pages of documents yet I have heard no suggestion that she or AJ have found any evidence of that or fraud in general.
I am afraid that I have to disagree with Stuart regarding League’s intent. Five years ago people were wondering how a 25 year old kid with no education or experience was coming up with NAVs on property he was ‘purchasing’ with investor money and then leveraging. The NAVs were extremely overstated. Most people wouldn’t know that, but it went on for a very long time, until Gant finally realized it could get him in trouble, and hired Colliers (or someone) to do evaluations, and they didn’t last long. From the inception of League it has been smoke and mirrors, with Manny using that smarmy language he is so fond of to placate investors. I think there was PLENTY of criminal intent. AND, I think it is provable. Gant loves to sue. He is suing several of his former employees (who also had money in the deals). He needs to be stopped.
He believes his own BS.
These are banks that already have money in the deals and want to protect it. Here is the announcement (which had to be amended once):
investor.partnersreit.com/file.aspx?IID=4256966&FID=20086321
thats for PAR.UN Nothing to do with us directly other than we own 4.4 million shares
money can not be used for CCAA of league no way no how
Really Paul? You still don’t see the big picture.
sorry.No I dont as Gant has NO controll over Credit available for PAR that would allow him to stop up any league affairs using this avenue.Just will not happen.I,am sure he would like to try though
see thats what I dont understand,league does not own partners reit so why would they jeapordize their company so give money to another reit that is insolvent?
League gets $$$ every in distributions from Partners plus whatever management fees they get paid as well. Their 4.4M shares are also worth close to $30M which can be used as security.
Partners REIT’s general partner is IGW Pub. IGW Pub is the sole shareholder of LAPP GAM who provides asset management and property management to Partners REIT. In other words, Gant controls Partners REIT.
Reply
NO gant does no controll PAR Infact he was not Voted back as a trustee last time.Its true hes involved in the management company that runs PAR but iam 100% positive
he would never be allowed to use bank credit for PAR to bail out the league
Can anyone even Grasp the magnitude of this fraud?? One Hundred and Four companies under Gants operation filed for CCAA yesterday thats 104!!!
nobody and i mean nobody knew there are 104 companies except gant
wheres that prick arruda
If you have proof of fraud then I suggest that you file a complaint with the local police.
Stuart give it a rest Nobody cares about what you say or think.Your one man stranded on a Island here. and Like SM says i too wonder where that Prick Arruda is
You lend money to a thing called the league and find out there,s 104 companies none of which are disclosed to you at time of investment and you says that,s not fraud??
the magnitude of this just boggles my mind even pwc must be scratching their heads
who would possibly lend 20 million dollars at this point?
I think that Stuart has more than a small stake in this, or he wouldn’t bother. He is likely a broker, and has some clients in this thing. Shifting blame and shifting focus is his main objective in here.
Stuart, do you think it’s alright if Les Bjola loses again? Sure seems like you don’t care who loses, as long as it isn’t you…and you could lose big time if you got people into this crap. And that obsequious veiled threat of investors turning on the people who brought this mess to light for them? Give it up.
All I am saying is that in litigation you need to consider both sides of a story. If one party has filed similar actions in the past and the judge completely dismisses them as not being credible then you have to wonder about the merit of subsequent claims.
This is the reply to Stuart Little’s post on Oct 17 which didn’t get posted.
Stuart Little you are wrong. Read the OM before you defend League. The redemption limits apply to common units and IPU that’s not yet matured. There is no retraction limit on matured IPUs. They should be paid within 45 days after maturity according to the OM. I have an IPU that’s matured early 2013. It has not been paid out. AG lied to me several times about paying. I can openly call AG a liar because I have the emails and the retraction notice to prove it. I am sure there are many more investors with matured IPUs and not been paid. He is a liar and League is a trap. The major reason for League to go public is to not pay back investors money. The other reasons like to simplify the corporate structure is minor in my opinion. According to you if a court would defer to the OM then League has breached the retraction contract and has committed a crime. Just this fact alone should stop you from saying good things about League and sounding neutral and reasonable because you are not.
I am not defending anyone. What you are talking about is redeeming your note and not a retraction. You loaned League money and they didn’t pay you back. In some countries that is a crime but not in Canada. You have a breach of contract so your recourse is to sue them. If Adam lied to you about paying you back then he is a scumbag but not a criminal.
Your are defending League and you don’t know what are talking about because you are not an investor. I have an IPU RETRACTION NOTICE in hand stating that League is to pay me back after maturity. It’s DEFINITELY a retraction, not redeeming a note like you said. As I said I have the retraction notice and emails in hand so I know what I’m talking about but you don’t. He is a criminal in my mind because he used all the credos, coat of arms etc. to entice people to buy the IPUs and not paying them back per the OM when mature.
Stuart you say and I quote:
If Adam lied to you about paying you back then he is a scumbag but not a criminal.
I disagree with you hes a scum bag AKA crimminal
What we call him makes no difference. Go to the Victoria police department and tell them that you want to file a criminal complaint and they will tell you it is a civil matter. The exception would be if you could prove beyond a reasonable doubt that League had no intention of paying you back when they took your money. Not that they couldn’t pay you back or were unlikely to be able to pay you back, but that they had the mind that they were not going to pay you back even if their business was a success.
I am afraid that I have to disagree with Stuart regarding League’s intent. Five years ago people were wondering how a 25 year old kid with no education or experience was coming up with NAVs on property he was ‘purchasing’ with investor money and then leveraging. The NAVs were extremely overstated. Most people wouldn’t know that, but it went on for a very long time, until Gant finally realized it could get him in trouble, and hired Colliers (or someone) to do evaluations, and they didn’t last long. From the inception of League it has been smoke and mirrors, with Manny using that smarmy language he is so fond of to placate investors. I think there was PLENTY of criminal intent. AND, I think it is provable. Gant loves to sue. He is suing several of his former employees (who also had money in the deals). He needs to be stopped.
He believes his own BS.
League et al is 104 companies? A good, experienced manager struggles with five! How can this NOT be construed as obfuscation? That is more than 17 new companies a year.
Then perhaps it is time for you to stop commenting on companies Stuart. I believe that when a company is founded on a pack of lies and a scheme to manipulate investor’s money, it is fraudulent. We are able to prove all of the lies, from their respective published educations and backgrounds right up to the lies in the CCAA affidavit (there is only one; Gant’s.) We also know that in discovery we will be able to get the proof of manipulation; from ‘shareholder’s votes’ to ‘proxy votes’.
Obviously Manny has run scared, likely to Brazil, with all of the money he ‘earned’. Gant is sick, and really needs help. In fact, according to his affidavit there are a thousand more investors than we thought.
Their facile use of technology closed down all of the early warnings, and for very good reason: they succeeded in sucking almost three hundred million dollars from investors. The extreme vitriol in one particular one (from the Pro-League side) was frightening. I was in the middle of it, and was very afraid, because they knew who I was. I have it in print for the courts. I am convinced that League would never have been possible if investors had been able to search online and find the sophomoric and hateful language they used. I also believe that Canada was the perfect place for this to play out. Talk about target marketing! That snake oil salesman knew exactly who he wanted to snare.
For a few years I didn’t give them much thought. When they created the REIT I thought maybe things would turn out alright. I still didn’t trust them at all, but I thought the investors were safer in that structure. Ha!
This is a far larger issue than a little defamation action against two women. This is an issue that will create ripple effects throughout Canada. People are going to lose their homes. Banks are going to own a whole lot more real estate. The false valuations on the properties that are ‘managed’ by Gant are going to tank the commercial market.
Trust will be wiped out.
So, again, I think the whole thing will be white-washed. That way the banks won’t get hurt; they never do. The underwriters will own the negative assets (there could be some opportunity there). They will spend god knows how much more money to only find out that they can’t be restructured.
There might be a chance of having Gant fired as the GP. If anyone with a legal background could speak to that, it would be good.
For several months I have begged people to check the titles on the Colwood deal. No one did. I think that point alone constitutes fraud.
To the monitor of this blog – how come my reply to Stuart Little’s Oct 17 post does not show up. It’s a legit reply with no swearing.
League filed for CCAA today. Download the court documents over at my blog.
I got the CCAA documents and posted them over on my blog if anyone wants to check it out. You can download it.
I just got the CCAA documents and I was wrong they were filed today the 17th of October and not the 10th although I did see them on PWC site. Anyways I will post them as soon as I can.
UPDATE :after a lot of email conversation,s we have a ex league employee whom wants the league held accountable as badly as we do.He too has lost money in the league and was forced out after asking G and MINI G the same hard questions we have been asking.He also says no one knows where Arruda is and his name is not on league letterheads anymore as of late.
what he said to me
I too am an investor of League and you are wrong. We did not know. I started to question what League was doing and because I questioned there ethics I quit/forced to leave. I actually just got a letter today from there lawyers saying that if I say anything they will take legal action against me. All I have done is show there financials which are a nightmare they are facts so I’m not sure what they are talking about.
Paul, I would looooove to talk to that guy. If you can put him in touch with my I would be most grateful
I would love to talk to that guy. Can you give him my contact info?
I heard a rumor that League did not make payroll and so many employees are leaving.
I heard a rumor today that payroll was not met and that the employees are leaving.
Jeff,
I am not a lawyer but I don’t believe that the Blue Book or web based marketing materials would be considered in the same light as a subscription agreement or offering memorandum. From what I recall, redemption rights have always been detailed in the OM as being subject to available funds and a monthly redemption limit. I think that a court would defer to the OM rather than a marketing document but I could be wrong.
It is also my belief that in order for an act to be considered fraudulent it has to be intentional. You would have to argue then at the time that League made representations about redemption times and interest rates that they never intended to honour those. I think that League could make a strong argument that factors outside of their control arose between the time they made the representation and when the policies changed which necessitated the changes.
There may have been misrepresentations made but I don’t believe that any fraud occured. This would mean that there might be civil recourse but not a criminal one.
I have said since day 1 that this is a high risk investment. I share with AJ and Rachelle 95% of their concerns about who this product was marketed to and the claims that were made early on. I agree that without financing Colwood will likely fail and that it will likely have serious reprecussions for IGW. I don’t believe that Manny or Adam started out to deceive investors or cheat people out of money. I believe that they were two young guys with a plan who got in over their heads when markets went south in 2008. This last point is where I disagree with the others here.
Stuart ?? so your telling me that the bullshit contained in their Corporate Backgrounder and Corporate Philanthropy/social responsibility brochures never mind the insane Blue book has no bearing on their greedy investment inititives?and bears no responsibility?? and the OM absolves them from any crimminal wrong doing?? These guys never offered a OM nor sent me one in the 6 years years I invested with them so where does that leave the OM.I cant rely on something that I do not even know exists???How can u say the OM is the Bible and all else means nothing when in FACT they used their Bullshit advertising brochures to do the selling and hide the OM as much as possible? and thats not dishonest ? Gimmie a break here..The OM that you seem to rely on Try reading the Duncan LP one.That was so full of holes and bullshit its rediculous ,its not even close to what transpired. Take 2008 which is 5 years ago and a ton of money they took from investors and invested in Ultra high risk adventures. means nothing as they continued on the same high risk path after that.,COLWOOD reminds me of when i buy a stock and it drops 50% in value but I still think a miricle will happen and I will at least break even, so I buy the same amount as before but at 1/2 price and so on.Never seems to work out.I know you think you know it all and i dont know shit but some day u may be surprized.
Stuart Little YOU ARE WRONG. I am an investor and I read the OM. I know about the risk, redemption rights etc. The redemption rights you mentioned is for common units and IPUs that’s not matured. Matured IPU has no limit and is payable within 45 days per the OM and 30 days per the retraction notice. CHECK THE OM BEFORE YOU DEFEND LEAGUE. I have an IPU matured early 2013 and so far have not been paid out. AG lied to me personally several times about paying and I have the emails to prove it. This person is a liar and League is a trap. I am sure there are other investors with matured IPUs but not paid out like myself. So far League has breached the matured IPU contract. I am not a lawyer and I don’t know whether that’s a criminal offence but I’ll find out. The major reason for League to go public is to not pay back investors money. As I said I have the emails and the yet to be paid retraction notice to prove AG is a liar. Just this alone should stop you from defending League and try to sound neutral and reasonable which you are not. If a court would defer to the OM like you said then AG has committed a crime against matured IPU holders.
Sorry, it’s not ‘criminal’ not to pay someone money you owe them if you do not have it to pay
It’s only criminal if you can prove they took your funds and never intended to make good on the payment or they abscounded the funds personally and or broke a local, provincial, or federal law
I hope you get paid soon, if not, and you think it’s a criminal act, by all means report it to the police, and or the RCMP. Let us know what they say and when someone gets arrested
This is why I have not been running out to hire lawyers or join action groups even though it’s clear none of us may ever see our principle again, as there can be on sports and music and political blogs, you have a lot of misplaced anger and venting, and sometimes irrational thought, why anyone wants to be a part of that, I do not know
Such as the average Leafs blog today after that horrible horrible winning goal off the boards last night, if that makes you feel better, fine, release, but unfort it adds nothing to the conversation
Call Adam a criminal if you will but you will better served if you can actually prove it and are willing to follow up on it, in this regard, you have to respect Rachelle and Allison for their efforts even if I may disagree with the premise of their assertion(s)
Victoria is a very small, parochial town with a gossipy, insider only money community, mostly old boys. I’ve been invited to the private clubs, the mansions, the fund raisers. I guarantee that Stuart is not from Victoria. He has a bit of financial background, and comes by good information, which might place him in government or maybe a school somewhere. I also guarantee that Paul is not Pratten.
I looked up the word Parochial as I was unfamiliar with that word. it suits the example for sure.
Warning just received this today an ex.Wealth Manager at Lisi who has surfaced with this sales pitch. He even got hold of their contact email information ??? buyer beware.
Hello,
I’ve got an investment that came across my desk that is the best deal I’ve seen this year. It’s a assisted living facility that is being build in Creston B.C. It’s offering 10% for 36 months annualized return paid monthly with the principle returned to you at the end of the term. Here are some facts about the project.
1. 10% for 36 months
2. Debt free property with foundation already built so no mortgages ahead of you
3. Over a year waiting list to move into the facility
4. Third party feasibility study done by ( Colliers Int’l) which I can send you.
5. 84 unit project with government contracts available furthering the safety of the project.
6. Fully zoned and approved by the township of Creston
I’ll include the one pager for you. I have financials, slide deck and that feasibility by Colliers.
I’m in the Vancouver area so if you would like to meet please let me know and I can give you a call for us to set up a time to meet.
Thanks!
Patrick A Dunn
President Wealth Management
Tel: 778.558.9166
Fax: 778.371.3401
Patrick@havenplex.com
http://Www.havenplex.com
” Institutional Real Estate Investing”
yes I sent him a email telling he had a lot of balls/Gall contacting league investors
nervy bastard to say the least
This piece of crap has been shopped around for years.
Stuey, even you aren’t stupid enough to sue your own investors.
Filing a suit was a dumb move. There were 3 people who read Rachelle’s blog and not more than 10 who read this one. All League did was draw attention to themselves.
Ha Stuart…. while my blog does not see the traffic that Perez Hilton’s blog does because I do write about landlords in Ontario, you might be surprised at how much traffic I get daily.
About a thousand uniques per day. I’m pretty sure that there’s a lot of authors that would like it if 1000 people per day read their stuff.
I was helping you out! How many people visit your blog and read what you post would be directly tied to the amount of damages that League would seek for your claims.
I see your comment this morning that League failing would end their lawsuit against you (and others). This is where we disagree on tactics. My goal was to educate people about the risks of these types of investments whereas yours and AJ’s became putting League out of business. Now I don’t believe what any of us posts on a couple of blogs materially changed the outcome here, one could argue that if the claims made against League proved to be false and/or malicious then you just added 2200 new parties to the claim against you.
I have been commenting on companies for a long time and frankly it is a thankless job which is why I remain behind the scenes. Now that we enter a new stage (CCAA) I think that we will find that the tenor of people who lost money starts to change.
Then perhaps it is time for you to stop commenting on companies Stuart. I believe that when a company is founded on a pack of lies and a scheme to manipulate investor’s money, it is fraudulent. We are able to prove all of the lies, from their respective published educations and backgrounds right up to the lies in the CCAA affidavit (there is only one; Gant’s.) We also know that in discovery we will be able to get the proof of manipulation; from ‘shareholder’s votes’ to ‘proxy votes’.
Obviously Manny has run scared, likely to Brazil, with all of the money he ‘earned’. Gant is sick, and really needs help. In fact, according to his affidavit there are a thousand more investors than we thought.
Their facile use of technology closed down all of the early warnings, and for very good reason: they succeeded in sucking almost three hundred million dollars from investors. The extreme vitriol in one particular one (from the Pro-League side) was frightening. I was in the middle of it, and was very afraid, because they knew who I was. I have it in print for the courts. I am convinced that League would never have been possible if investors had been able to search online and find the sophomoric and hateful language they used. I also believe that Canada was the perfect place for this to play out. Talk about target marketing! That snake oil salesman knew exactly who he wanted to snare.
For a few years I didn’t give them much thought. When they created the REIT I thought maybe things would turn out alright. I still didn’t trust them at all, but I thought the investors were safer in that structure. Ha!
This is a far larger issue than a little defamation action against two women. This is an issue that will create ripple effects throughout Canada. People are going to lose their homes. Banks are going to own a whole lot more real estate. The false valuations on the properties that are ‘managed’ by Gant are going to tank the commercial market.
Trust will be wiped out.
So, again, I think the whole thing will be white-washed. That way the banks won’t get hurt; they never do. The underwriters will own the negative assets (there could be some opportunity there). They will spend god knows how much more money to only find out that they can’t be restructured.
There might be a chance of having Gant fired as the GP. If anyone with a legal background could speak to that, it would be good.
For several months I have begged people to check the titles on the Colwood deal. No one did. I think that point alone constitutes fraud.
No point arguing definitions as you have your own meanings for words. What I saw in the filing yesterday was that there are sufficient assets to cover all secured creditors and that all employees are being paid. That at least is some good news. If the entire operation was a sham and there were no assets to cover the short term plan then they would not have been allowed to file for CCAA and would have been forced directly into receivership.
I would not get too excited about the Grizzly claim and lein against the Colwood title. Grizzy is controlled by Les Bjola and he made a claim for $22M (if I recall correctly) against Bear Mountain when it entered into CCAA. A judge later dismissed his claim in its entirety.
They just borrowed $20M to stay in operation. BORROWED. That is not an asset, at least not in my world.
whos they? and where did 20 million come from?
It is bank money; a revolving loan. and the banks control how it will be spent.
how could they ever pay it back?
we investors have been royally had
I sure hope the saying what goes around comes around applies in this case
The banks can control whether they loan the money or not but do not control how it gets spent, PWC will oversee that. IGW was loaned money because they have assets in excess of the secured loans according to PWC. Unsecured holders will likely see a % of the dollar returned while secured holders appear to be in good shape for now.
IGW has Assetts in excess of secured loans.What crock of horseshit that is? based on whos evaluations? I find it extremely hard to beleive that comment
it just makes me sick to hear that he wants $500,000.00 ,whatever happened to being responsible for your actions,any money paid him should be unsecured like everyone else or pay someone else to do the job,
I am just so fed up with this system
The statement is in the legal filing. If there was no money and no hope of salvage then the court would not allow the CCAA proceeding to continue.
That is untrue, any Company who applies gets 30 days to present a plan and basically unlimited stays.
Paul,
If you have $1.2M invested as you say and PWC is stating in a legal document that League has hard assets, has equity in those assets and has the potential to be restructured then I would think that you and other investors would be estatic.
BUT Iam not paul? remember what u claim my name is and I dont trust PWC as obviously Gant lied to KPMG and they beleived him so whos to say PWC is not also stupid enough to believe his values
So PWC and KPMG are crooks as well in your opinion?
stuart in kind of a weird way over the years Iam sure these two have done things that are not totally above board in the scheme of things.Iam sure there are a few changes of the ink so to speak .But I certainly dont think for a second that either identity is responsible in any way for the terrible situation that ARRUDA and GANT has put investors in
Below is an example of why I cant beleive BCSC and others never stepped down on these crooks.First they buy Class B notes In Colwood with IGW money and charge fees.Then they exchange these notes for a unsecured loan to a project with no income to make any payments?They also post a suspect gain and again charge Big Fees. I mean think about this for a moment? Your in charge of Investors money.You have a project that you unwisely invested our money in.Its now failing so u switch around our money from semi secured debt to unsecured so U can get a mortgage lending company to lend u money that now can be secured against this property and on top of this have the gall to actually charge us Fees on a investment that in reality we had already paid the investment fee??and of course we now have like 80 million of wasted money in this POS that they charged us fees every time they took our money and invested it their project.Kinda funny in a way that aguy can be in need of money,Take money thats not his and virtually lend it to himself and actually charge us fees to do this????????
age 152: exchange of a class B units into a note. See here: In January 2010, REIT exchanged its Class B units of Colwood City Centre Limited Partnership for a promissory note. The exchange was recorded at the unit’s fair value on the transaction date; which resulted in REIT recognizing a gain of $7,828,824. The value of the promissory note is $18,432,362 and bears interest at a rate of 10% per annum. An incentive management fee of $1,567,576 was charged on this transaction by League Assets Corp.
Have to agree with you Paul. Although technically this may have been legal, on the surface it appears as though it is an abuse of the role. If in fact League received fees for transactions between related parties, I believe it should not have been permitted.
well it says right there that they received over 1.5 mill in fees ? whats one to think? they really did take money from us and lend it to themselves so to speak. and then charged us to do the so called “investment” The way i read things anyhow?
as usual its extremely hard to follow the money here for sure. I may have misunderstood this deal though?
The value of the promissory note is $18,432,362 and bears interest at a rate of 10% per annum. An incentive management fee of $1,567,576 was charged on this transaction by League Assets Corp., which is offset against the gain recorded. This fee is recorded in accounts payable at December 31, 2010.
SO who Paid this Fee? IGW or Colwood? Sounds like IGW to me?
And Arthur Anderson wasnt either huh?
Exactly.
who,s Arthur Anderson
Arthur Andersen LLP, based in Chicago, is a holding company and formerly one of the “Big Five” accounting firms among PricewaterhouseCoopers, Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu, Ernst & Young and KPMG, providing auditing, tax, and consulting services to large corporations. In 2002, the firm voluntarily surrendered its licenses to practice as Certified Public Accountants in the United States after being found guilty of criminal charges relating to the firm’s handling of the auditing of Enron, an energy corporation based in Texas, which had filed for bankruptcy in 2001 and later failed. The other national accounting and consulting firms bought most of the practices of Arthur Andersen. The verdict was subsequently overturned by the Supreme Court of the United States. However, the damage to its reputation has prevented it from returning as a viable business, though it still nominally exists.
One of the few revenue-generating assets that the Andersen firm still has is Q Center, a conference and training facility outside of Chicago.[1]
The former consultancy and outsourcing arm of the firm, now known as Accenture, which had separated from the accountancy side in 1987 and renamed themselves after splitting from Andersen Worldwide in 2000, continues to operate and has become one of the largest multinational corporations in the world.
So have you been served with the court documents yet or are you still hoping that League doesn’t find out who you are? Why do you think that they sued the WordPress folks – to get the IP addresses of everyone who posted perhaps?
I am who I say iam am.I use my real name unlike you and i speak what i feel in my mind and heart is the truth.I feel that i have been lied to and cheated by these guys and iam out 1.6 million dollars of which i doubt i will ever see.
Why should I be nice to people like them ? I have done nothing illeagle.I have voiced my opinion of the situation based on what has happened to me.Its not hears say and its not so and so said this.Based on direct conversations and written literature by theses guys regarding my league investments I say I was badley mislead by the league and I stand by that accusation.what do people think iam about to say.Oh gee Adam and manny are outstanding people and have always been upfront and forthwith and I just have to accept that my money was invested wisely but they meant only the best for me and oh well these things happen??
I agree with Paul, swear words aside, I am also who I am, fairly high profile, and in the news quite often, the League already has my e-mail and personal info, and by nature of what I do it’s easy to get a hold of me anyway, etc, so nothing too hide here either
I’m just one of 2200 investors whose taken to the internet to try and find out why my distro stopped and why I cannot redeem my principle, since I’ve found out so much more information online that the League does not tell it’s so called ‘member-partners’
Yes stu how did you figure it out? Iam surprized my bad and should have told u before
Like it or not but this is how the BCSC and other securities commissions operate. They will receive your complaints and may ask you for follow up information but THEY WILL NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES discuss details of any companies or investigations. Canada’s privacy laws prevent them from doing so and why I have said here many times that comments about people claiming to be getting inside info from the BCSC are malarky.
Stuey: 1. when did anyone in here ever claim to be getting inside info? 2. when did you ever say anything regarding that? Never. and Never.
I think that rather than making things up, which appears to be what you are exceedingly good at, you should take the time to answer the investor questions asked of you.
AJ you have said several times that you have talked to BCSC investigators about League and they have told you further actions are coming.
stuart ?? you obviously completely misread my post as per usual.I never asked for information>This paymour goof ball was bugging me to send him information.I sent it to him as u can well see via my post and all I asked was they acknowledge that they were receiving my emails Thats all i asked.He then turns around and tells me He,s
not specifically assigned to receive complaints regarding League. WTF? this asshole contacted me asking for me to send him information.
DO U NOW UNDERSTAND Stuart or whoever the f–k you are
and answer the question about this:
Stuart Little says:
October 13, 2013 at 12:37 am
Actually the filings are all online. Check the board, we have been posting them for years. WHO is WE and WHAT BOARD??
Grizz / Solid / Paul
I have never been rude to you. Two posts back you commented that the BCSC never responded to your complaints. I am telling you why plain and simple and that they don’t respond to anyone.
Stuart you moron answer the question we have all asked you several time:
October 13, 2013 at 12:37 am
Actually the filings are all online. Check the board, we have been posting them for years. Again we ask WHO is WE and WHAT BOARD??What filings online??
Also you moron for the third F–king time I never complained about BCSC not responding to my complaints I simply wanted to make sure the complaints were being Viewed. thats it you f–k ing moron
I have not (nor has anyone else at the Commission) been specifically assigned to receive complaints regarding League.
BCSC is not interested in any complaints with regards to the league EOS
Try calling and ask for Sidney Lansdowne. Also, answer the questions that I posted earlier, and send them to her…address above
Will do but iam starting to loose faith in BCSC. This Payam Fouladianpour guy was bugging me a year ago to give him my opinion etc on league and how my dealings went down etc.I have sent them several emails with information and not one reply. I finally get a reply today and its not pretty
QUOTE:Mr. Dunbar,
I acknowledge receipt of your email below and previous emails sent to my attention on August 22, 2013. August 23, 2013, October 9, 2013 and October 16, 2013. Unfortunately, I am not able to comment on this matter beyond my acknowledgement.
You may continue to send me information, but please note that I have not (nor has anyone else at the Commission) been specifically assigned to receive complaints regarding League. Complaints of this nature are typically handled by our Inquiries Group.
We will contact should we require additional information.
Thank you.
OK so why did this guy contact asking for any all complaints I had in regards to the league
anyone here get anywhere with BCSC? I have filed many complaints and never received even a respecful yes we read your mail , we are looking into your complaints+ nada nothing
So, which salespeople / member services managers have left? Anyone know ?
I believe that this is their ‘too big to fail’ card. It is because too many institutions are going to lose on their deals, including the reputations of securities. They will prop up this crap for as long as is necessary to get out with as little fanfare as possible.
They are going to white wash the whole thing.
This is really interesting: Bryce Maxwell, CA
Manager of Financial Reporting at League Assets Corp.
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Accounting
Previous
PwC, Office of the Auditor General of BC
Education
CICA In Depth Taxation
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/bryce-maxwell-ca/6b/8a6/810
kind of hard to beleive that a guy that worked for Auditor general of BC could not see the crookery behind the league
Maybe I should say ‘should’.
It will take the court five minutes to see that the company(s) have no value and do not function as a business.
What is the CCAA?
The Companies’ Creditors Arrangement Act (CCAA) is a federal law allowing insolvent corporations that owe their creditors in excess of $5 million to restructure their business and financial affairs. The main purpose of the CCAA is to enable financially distressed companies to avoid bankruptcy or foreclosure or seizure of assets while maximizing returns for their creditors and preserving both jobs and the company’s value as a functioning business. CCAA proceedings are carried out under the supervision of the Court.
It is just mind-boggling how you can think that holding an unsecured promissory note gives you some sort of priority. Every investor is screwed. There will be no priorities. There will likely be nothing for anybody but secured note holders, and then not very much. The properties were all over-stated with fictional NAVs. They were then over-leveraged. None of the work required or promised was ever done (except for a pathetic attempt on Quadra in Victoria where they slapped a little lipstick on a roach infested pig and are trying to rent it). In the case of Duncan they said they ‘purchased’ land. You cannot purchase Indian land. It has been one pile of BS on top of another for the past 6 years, and it is just pathetic that so many people bought into it all.
I often wonder how Pat Minogue Chief Compliance Officer has got through all this so far without a big fine and honourable mention??? Is she not legally responsible for making sure clients are properly informed and that the salesman did a KYC application etc etc which is pretty obvious to us that that was never done and that the head crooks followed what they promised in the OM??
League (LISI) has removed the web page where they listed all their so called wealth managers in various locations. I think some real bad news is coming down the pipe.
Pissed off investor. Their own words talking to a wealth manager (salesperson) admitted they have zip to offer for sale. They have had a couple of resignations as the salespersons were being ground down by hearing from pissed off investors. So the reason for making it difficult to even call your contacts.
I am a note holder (prommisory note in Duncan) would like to speak or be in contact with any other innocent victims in this Loan note. NB I am not referring to the LP investors. If you are a loan note investor their have been some massive irregularties and I feel on this one alone we can go after them.
Want to hear from someone in the same situation.
Protes I too am a little surprized about you being so mis and uninformed regarding DUNCAN LP.The Original OM was was big fraud or lie ?thats for you to deside.I know what i know.There is no money.You will receive ZERO?? I don,t understand by now how you still do not seem to realize that equation in the Duncan mess.They spent around 63 million dollars(who knows where) iam sure the crooks took a few million.The mall is not worth even 40 million and thats IF they could find someone dumb enough to buy it .its a total failure Money wise but hey it sure looks good
I believe the lack of replies tells us exactly who and what this persons motives were and are
Let’s all be kind to each other, this is a very stressful time for everyone. I can assure Stuart and everyone else that I am not imagining anything about the information I received. I did see them listed on the PWC website and the search link is there. We’ll all get more information in the coming week. I hope everyone is having a decent Turkey day despite the news.
Yeah I’m not sure what Stuart is talking about – but clarification would be helpful. While it is important not to jump to conclusions, there is a reason that LALP is in the link. It is unlikely someone just “messed up”, pulled that name from thin air and posted it on the PwC site. If someone jumped the gun then fine, but that in itself tells a story.
Yes I agree with you KD but still highly suspicious of the statement
“Actually the filings are all online. Check the board, we have been posting them for years.”
If stuart would post to clarify what this statement means or was ment to mean we could move on
Paul,
The person calling her or himself Stuart has a pattern of stirring the pot and not responding to questions. She never answered Jeff Cohen in his repeated requests. She/he enjoys winding up AJ a little too much to be considered objective. Now it is about Rachelle imagining documents. While I agree that it was unwise of Rachelle and AJ to use terms with very specific legal definitions like Ponzi, Rachelle has never posted about imagined documents in the years she has been following League.
In any event there is nothing overly surprising about a League company filing for creditor protection. Given their historical cash burn and the lack of new investors it was only a matter of time. Because of how convoluted their organization is and the difficulty in tracing cross guarantees, I don’t know for a fact but would speculate that there will be fallout in other League entities resulting from one defaulting.
Mick is correct – Stuart has avoided answering any of my direct questions about both league mis-management, trustee mis-management, making loans to other co’s also managed by league, and or with the same trustee’s, loaning funds which do not serve the best interests of IGW and IPU holders, but primarily interest other co’s also owned or managed by the league
I’ve found it fascinating that Stuart knows so much about everything and yet never comments on all the above – lol
Jermey says and i quote:
stuart Your statements are factual and well written.
I must say Jermey that your POST should really say “IN MY OPINION” because thats all it is
your opinion and is not fact.!!
Stuart Little says:
October 13, 2013 at 12:37 am
Actually the filings are all online. Check the board, we have been posting them for years. Maybe LALP is in CCAA and maybe it isn’t. Nobody has seen a document
Yes stuart ?who is “WE” and where have you been posting “the filings are all online.”?????
It’s all legal as long as the disclaimers are there I’m told. That’s the largest pile of horse shit I’ve ever heard.
ME TOO what Judge in their correct mind would allow shisters to screw people from thier hard earned money based on that pretense???
They walk such a fine line between legal and illegal; and in fact have been fined and CTO’d and had judgement’s over and over for their crossing that line. I bet there is more that we don’t know about, yet.
well when one does an extensive search one can sure see that lawsuits do not phase GANT at all as he,s has had many and has currently many against him over the years
So i,am sure he knows the difference between what is what we feel is ileagle and what is in the eyes of a judge
Nope, it was a leak from an impeccable source. The PWC website was just secondary confirmation. The official announcement is going to be very soon.
Also I am not locked into a bitter lawsuit with League, lets be clear, they decided they should sue 12 people and I was one of them. Those people are RACHELLE BERUBE, ALLISON BARBER, JANE DOE a.k.a. “suzie”,”suziel941″ and “Suzie Sanders”, JOHN DOE a.k.a. “Beware the Ponze”,”Henry Longmire”, “Jim”, “PeteSmith”, “Dean”, “John Doe”, “Grizz”,”Innocent Bystander”, “42nd street”, “Charles Baysin” , and AUTOMATTIC lNC.
They cannot win what they want, simply because the courts will be unable to go back in time and remove all the people who had negative experiences/things to say about them. I was told that that they thought I was the webmaster of League Reviewed. Unfortunately I was not, nor was I willing to be victim of their bullying. I have an absolute right to my opinion, I have a right to warn other people and I am willing to fight for my rights.
I may lose in court, but in the meantime untold people have been saved from foolishly investing in this. If I lose my right to speak about League, it won’t be because of cowardice, or because it’s too hard, or because I didn’t try. Chances are my complete lack of understanding of legal proceedings will be my undoing not the verity of my arguments.
Their goal was to sanitize the internet of people who had legitimate concerns about them so they could continue with their fundraising. In short this blog and all the comments on it. The thread I started on Canadian Money Forum is also very high in search. Their ploy has backfired immensely, their own documents condemn them.
More importantly perhaps I have become aware of the commonality of this very occurrence, seniors and vulnerable investors being stripped of their nest eggs by unscrupulous and misleading marketing. It’s all legal as long as the disclaimers are there I’m told. That’s the largest pile of horse shit I’ve ever heard. Due diligence can only go so far when dealing with this kind of targeted deception. I’m working to make sure that other investors are protected from future scams.
I think everyone knows Mick? at least i do(what u meant)
Extremely unlikely but if you have some sort of personal interest go to the Court and ask. These filings are not online real time but available on site as I expect you know.
My post was meant for Stuart as her or his comments appear to be designed to derail productive discussion.
Actually the filings are all online. Check the board, we have been posting them for years. Maybe LALP is in CCAA and maybe it isn’t. Nobody has seen a document, what they have seen is a link to a page that doesn’t exist. The responsible thing to do is to wait until the document appears and not to be trying to scare people on the Friday of a long weekend when they know the information can’t be confirmed.
Rachelle is very late to the League party, others inlcuding myself have been pointing out the risks for 7 years not 2. The only difference is that most of us don’t call people criminals and get sued for the effort. You call that heroic and others would call it stupid. Even if you don’t have any money a judgment hangs over you for a decade and can be renewed for even longer.
stuart The LINK exists as we have all seen it? what aprt of theat dont u understand?? I posted it right here ?? Ray Charles can read the link and if we would have listened to Rachelle 2 years ago and realized we were really dealing with criminals we would all be better off
The facts are that investors most of whom are seniors, have been ripped off for millions of dollars. Surely if we can’t agree on the semantics of my speech, we can agree that if their scheme isn’t criminal it certainly should be.
In the First Leaside scam it played out like this
1 – Grant Thornton was called in as Monitor in CCAA
2 – Receivership
3 – Viability report on company
4 – OSC waits for 19 million in more investor’s monies to be given to First Leaside
5 – OSC shuts down First Leaside
6 – Charges are laid against First Leaside founder and salesman
7 – 14 million of 300 million is recovered from bankruptcy proceedings.
If you read the Grant Thornton Report, it will remind you of League and they even use the phrase “Intergenerational Wealth” It’s like a blueprint of League and any investors should look it up if they want to understand what the forensic audit revealed in a similar company structure. There are many commonalities.
Who is “we” Stuey?
To Stuart Little:
Why would LALP filing for CCAA be scary? Without sales (or sales staff), League Assets will soon run out of cash, so CCAA or receivership is inevitable. Receivership is the only natural course for IPU holders to recover anything, and filing for CCAA is a prelude to that outcome.
I agree that LALP filing for CCAA cannot be confirmed at this point. Despite criticisms against you, I find you are a voice of reason. Your statements are factual and well written.
Current Insolvency Assignments
…League Assets Limited Partnership CCAA 2013-10-10
http://www.pwc.com/en_GX/webadmin/search/search.jhtml?searchfield=League+Assets&searchsubmit.x=15&searchsubmit.y=14&pwcGeo=CA&pwcLang=en&pwcHideLevel=0&localeOverride
link to CCAA
I was alerted that League had filed for CCAA and went to the PWC website and saw League in their list of Insolvent companies effective Oct 10 2013. A few minutes later the link was removed. You can find proof that it was there on their site by using the search function on their website. Search for League.
It looks like someone at PWC dropped the ball with the website prior to the official announcement.
Or someone at PWC made a mistake and League isn’t actually filing for CCAA protection.
Look at the prospectus.
Go to page five of the prospectus. The structure is laid out there. It also says that all entities are wholly owned by LALP.
I am looking at the most recent IGW REIT OM and it states that LALP only owns the management company.
You are wasting your time. The only person who claims to have seen the PWC documents is locked in a bitter lawsuit with League. Even the link on her website to the claimed CCAA documents doesn’t work. It would stand to reason that if no court database shows the action and the PWC website doesn’t list anything then perhaps Rachelle is imaging things.
the link works for me and the PWC website shows LALP has applied for CCAA
Hmmmm. “Locked in a bitter lawsuit…” Sounds like some Mini G hyperbole.
So this is the link on the website http://www.pwc.com/ca/en/car/index.jhtml and you are saying that it shows LALP as being in CCAA?
Stuart appears to be trolling, in my opinion. She or he has stated contradictory opinions on this board and clearly enjoys derailing discussions with personal attacks. Rachelle is one of the few individuals who saw the risks and pitfalls of League years ago and is putting her real name, reputation and time into helping investors. All without pay. I highly doubt she is imagining having seen a document and the link from Paul proves it. If Stuart has done anything to assist investors perhaps she or he can speak about that or hold her tongue about someone who has.
Heres another thing Iam not clear on and anyone has clear answer please post
League Assets Limited Partnership is the one with the CCAA appilcation.That,s not IGW REIT is it?
If there was any equity anywhere, PWC would have found it, and found a way to restructure. If there was even hope of equity anywhere, they could have found another underwriter. Firm Capital was on the Colwood site a couple of weeks ago: they underwrite almost anything, and they turned Gant down.
PWC knows what is at stake. Nobody is going to come out of this looking good, from KPMG to BCSC to the banks. I believe they were all very well aware of the investor’s stake and how they were being manipulated and deceived.
And another shoe drops.
For people who have signed up for the Gatineau Centre Development Limited Partnership between the dates of April 30th 2013 to the present, you will have an offer to get out of jail free and get your money back. Considering that they either have or are on the verge of declaring CCAA (Creditor Protection)
The direct link to the Order
UNDERTAKING
To:British Columbia Securities Commission the “BCSC” And
To:Alberta Securities Commission the “ASC”
Re:Partial revocation of cease trade orders dated July 22, 2013 and August 7, 2013 issued by the BCSC and ASC (the “Cease Trade Orders”)against Gatineau Centre Development Limited Partnership (Gatineau LP) Gatineau LP hereby undertakes to the BCSC and the ASC that it will
provide a copy of its non-offering offering memorandum, prepared in the required form, and an offer of rescission (the “Rescission Offer)to any investor, in any location, that purchased securities of Gatineau LP after April 30, 2013 in reliance on section 2.9 of National Instrument 45-106 Offering Memorandum (the Investors) within 10 business days following the partial revocation of the Cease Trade Orders;and
file a letter with the BCSC and the ASC upon completion of the Rescission Offer identifying:
(a)the Investors to whom the Rescission Offer was made;
(b)the Investors who accepted the Rescission Offer, or who failed to respond to the Rescission Offer and were deemed to have accepted the Rescission Offer; and
(c)the date the Investors’ funds were returned to them following acceptance of the Rescission Offer.
DATED as of the 2nd day of October, 2013.
Gatineau Centre Development Limited Partnership,
by its general partner,Gatineau Centre Development General Partner Inc.
Per:Adam GantPresident and Director
That guy(GANT)just kills me he really kills me.He has utter failures going on like Ft St John.Duncan,Colwood and he has the gall to start yet another LP in alberta.
There has to be a sickness involved here?
There is. It is megalomania and psychopathy…but don’t leave Manny out of this equation. He is equally to blame. They knew it was all a pack of lies from the beginning.
yes your right they both deserve equal credit for sure. A guy that use to work for the league told me manny was MD and was one of the reasons he quit.
Manny quit? And what is MD?
This makes it more urgent than ever. Rather than email everyone this list of things to do from BCSC, I will post it here.
If anyone needs any help, let me know.
Hi Allison,
As per our conversation, when individuals file complaints with the British Columbia Securities Commission (BCSC) with regards to a possible violation of the Securities Act, we request they answer the following questions:
What company did you purchase your investment from?
What is your relationship with this company?
Who sold you the investment?
What is your relationship with this individual?
What representations were made to you that caused you to make the investment?
When you made the investment, was there anything said to you that was untrue?
Did you receive an offering memorandum? If not, do you know if an exemption was relied upon for you to invest?
If you received an offering memorandum, did you read the offering memorandum or consult with legal counsel in regards to the document?
How is what’s happening now different than what you understood would happen at the time you made the investment?
If you have any questions, please let me know.
Sydney Lansdowne
Senior Information Officer, Corporate Finance
British Columbia Securities Commission
PO Box 10142, Pacific Centre
701 West Georgia Street
Vancouver, BC V7Y 1L2
Inquiries@bcsc.bc.ca
According to very reliable information, League Assets Limited Partnership has filed for CCAA on October 10th 2013. Until a moment ago you could see it on the PWC website but the info disappeared,
I seriously challange that as they have not been out of dough long enough to show cause and file.I do not beleive they have filed
They have. It was posted on PWCs website, but was removed. I will send you a snapshot
if so what ever made them think they had money enough to hire PWC just to tell them their done like dinner?? makes no sense none of this
they thought they were going to raise more; either through new investors, or by going to the market. My connections in the market think Gant is a clown in cuff links.
They may have hired PWC to help them go public but PWC was unable to do so and PWC told them so and so they filed for CCAA. Didn’t it seem strange to you that telephone representatives were telling people if they didn’t go public they would go bankrupt?
actually heres my take on things.They knew 2 weeks ago and when they said they were hiring PWC to look into the league.What they meant is they were hiring PWC to oversee their bankrupcey application.its more than obvious to me now that i see whats going on.They never planed ever to hire PWC to do a analysis.They knew full well they were broke and PWC would be the assigned trustee in the bankrupcey
CCAA protection is not bankruptcy. If League has filed for CCAA protection, and it is not listed on the PWC website, then the intent usually is to seek time to restucture debts. Many companies eventually wind up going bankrupt but that is not always the case.
The CCAA proceedings are public, so anyone can go to the Court and get a copy of the application. In most cases it means the Applicant was unable to pay a debt and filed for CCAA protection to avoid their creditor enforcing their right to realize on their security. In order for the Court to approve a stay that prevents creditors from enforcing, the Applicant has to show a 13 week cash flow projection with enough funds to cover the business needs. The secured creditors will be in Court to either support or contest this plan. This is also public and anyone can attend including the press. As I am not a securities lawyer I do not know if a cease trade is automatically placed on the sale of equity to the public during this process. I do not wish to sound cynical but the Securities Commissions might sit back and do nothing as this implodes. The Commercial Court and creditor processes work a lot faster than our Commissions do. Maybe because there is actually some oversight and accountability in the Court process, while it seems the bureaucrats in the Commissions do not have any requirement to act quickly.
It is time to join the lawsuit.
Once again, if investors ‘join the lawsuit’ they will be left with nothing. There are no assets, no cash flow, just a big black gaping hole of debt. The only assets are those they have placed off shore or their personal properties. The only way to get at those things is with a criminal complaint. BCSC told me yesterday that they can instruct the RCMP to seize their passports. Everyone needs to start their case of fraud.
There is no sense in tip toeing around it any more. They set out 6 years ago with nothing but some smarmy marketing, and have managed to bilk investors out of almost $300M. They don’t give a good god damn about any of you. I picture them laughing at every single one of you; even the disabled woman who put her last $100,000 in; even the young widow who put her dead husbands entire life insurance payout in League. They are laughing because they think you are all stupid. They played the system well.
You are right Paul. I checked the OM and LALP does not own IGW or Colwood so this action, if true, does not appear to effect any of the unitholders or IPU holders. LALP owns the manager and LISI only.
There is no mention of any CCAA filing on the PWC website or in any court documents but my guess is that a loan was coming due and this is a pre-emptive measure to delay collection.
If LALP filed for creditor protection then the filing will be at the Court. Whether it is on PwCs website is not relevant. It is very relevant to IPU and common shareholders as there appear to be numerous inter company guarantees of third party debt throughout the League entities. Many secured creditors will have taken cross guarantees from multiple entities. A default within one company can easily set off a chain of defaults through others. My point is that it makes sense to press forward with legal action now as the equity holders could be very much affected depending on whether there is indeed any equity left in the entities. If AJ is correct and there is no equity value then of course there is no point in engaging in the creditor process. If that is the case then proving fraud is the only hope for equity holders to recover value. On the other hand if there is equity value then acting now to protect it is essential.
There were lots of brokers. One was Marvin Quiring, who League used in their marketing as a ‘case study’. Lots of brokers made commissions
If anyone got into this investment through an Investment Adviser, please email me.
I did not know they had private sales people selling this POS? I thought u had to deal through league offices?
how many people here could sell a shopping center for less than they paid for it?
I COULD ……….now pay me.
thats what really really gauls me. They get paid when they buy shit we dont want or need and they get paid to sell the same shit that did not want or need.
wheres my email thanksgiving card from arruda?
I mean really what did I pay these people for?
happy thankgiving
so this weekend while gant and arudda and their families are feeding their faces ,the poor schleps who gave these people money dine on macaroni and cheese……welcome to Canada
happy thankgiving
SM now thats a true story for sure.I remember that sick sick thanksgiving message those guys laid on me last year and its still makes me puke
ANY one who has money in any part of League et al, who is NOT an accredited investor, please email me immediately. ajmbconsulting@gmail.com
In a perfect world here is what would(should) happen.BCSC steps in +Seize controll of league and all Gants and Arruda assetts and I mean all.They immeadiatly disallow any more fee charges by these 2 parasites.They appoint a manager to oversee day to day current league operation.They immediatley put colwood in a for sale as is situation.They do the same for Duncan. They make peace with Timbercreek and get the PAR shares back in our bank account.Once things stabilize and we get a unconvuluted clear picture of the league and where we stand we slowly liquidate and get what we can.pay off debt holders and pay back investors as much as we with whats left. Force gant and arruda into bankrupcie
Of course my controlled commen sense approach is not doable the way our laws and BCSC work but I love venting
There goes what’s left of any unencumbered properties, but at least the banks will control the purse strings:
A correction from source is being issued with respect to the Partners Real Estate Investment Trust release that was issued October 04, 2013 at 12:07 ET. The first paragraph stated that “a .25% fee on the undrawn portion of the maximum facility committed” but should have read, “a .45% fee on the undrawn portion of the maximum facility committed.” The correct document follows:
Partners Real Estate Investment Trust (TSX: PAR.UN) (the “REIT” or “Partners REIT”) announced today it has extended and amended its existing revolving credit facility (the “revolver”) which is provided by a consortium of Canadian chartered banks consisting of Royal Bank of Canada, Bank of Nova Scotia and Laurentian Bank of Canada. The revolver has a formula-based maximum not to exceed $40 million, bearing interest at the bank’s prime rate plus 1.0% per annum or the Banker’s Acceptance stamping fee plus 2.25% per annum, along with a .45% fee on the undrawn portion of the maximum facility committed. The amended revolver is currently secured by five of the REIT’s properties and can be expanded up to an additional $20 million to a $60 million maximum with the securitization of additional unencumbered properties. The revolver can be utilized for general operating purposes, including the acquisition of additional assets.
The amended revolver also now includes a $5 million carve out tied to the Partners REIT’s bank account to efficiently managed daily cash inflows and outflows. The revolver will mature in March of 2015 and may be extended for one additional year and each year thereafter, subject to lender approval.
yes but absolutely nothing to do with league other than we own around 15% of the PAR shares.Changes nothing in my world of league failures
Here,s the short form of the above.There is so many fees upon fees and commissions payable to Gant and Arruda that if this piece of shit for some reason was to ever actually see the lite of day(finished and sold) there would be no profit for anyone else involved including the lowly investors in league asset corporation.This is the most convoluted piece of “Financial art”
I have ever read in my life
And that is just a few pages of almost 700.
The Hype:
Dear Member-Partners and prospective members,
We at League are pleased to offer this special opportunity to participate in an exciting
investment that provides the potential for extraordinarily high returns. This syndication—
previously available only to our accredited investors—stands apart from League’s REIT pool. It
is a separate investment structure, that can now be shared with everyone and provide yet
another way to diversify your League investments.
Following the acquisition of one final property (already in progress), the 13-acre tract of land
will become the new “City Centre” for Colwood, BC—a 4.3 million sq. ft. complex valued at
more than $1.8 billion. The development will be guided by League’s special performance driven,
profit-sharing compensation model.
The Reality:
Loans Payable to Related Parties
As of December 31, 2009, IGW REIT Limited Partnership (“REIT LP”), an entity related to Colwood by common
management, had provided loans to the Development totalling $16.9 million at a rate of 14% per annum and held
$10,625,000 of Class B units in Colwood.
During the year ended December 31, 2010, those Class B units were converted into a loan and additional amounts were
advanced on the loan. The total loans from REIT LP at that date totalled $46.5 million, including $26.2 million at a rate of
14% per annum and $20.3 million at a rate of 10% per annum.
By December 31, 2011, the loans payable by the Development to REIT LP had increased by $12.1 million to $58.6 million,
comprising $37.3 million at a rate of 14% per annum and $21.3 million at a rate of 10% per annum.
During the nine months ended September 30, 2012, the Development increased its loans payable to REIT LP by $5.3
million with $4.0 million added to the loan at 14% and $1.3 million added to the loan at 10%.
The weighted average interest rate of the loans payable to related parties as at September 30, 2012 was 12.57% (December
31, 2011: 12.55%).
The use of funds received by the Development from the increase in loans payable to related parties include the payment of
fees under the Partnership Management Agreement (see “Related Party Transactions” below), servicing of debentures
already issued and construction costs for the Development.
Mortgages Payable
As of December 31, 2009, the Development had borrowed $19 million in fixed rate mortgages at interest rates ranging from
5.7% to 15% per annum and $5.7 million in a variable rate mortgage at prime plus 2.75% per annum. During the year
ended December 31, 2010, $2.9 million of principal payments were made on certain fixed rate mortgages, reducing the
balance of fixed rate mortgages to $16.1 million and the total mortgages to $21.8 million. By December 31, 2011, $7.3
million of additional principal payments were made on the fixed rate mortgages, reducing the balance of fixed rate
mortgages to $8.8 million and the total mortgages to $14.5 million.
As at September 30, 2012, the Development’s mortgages payable total $10,890,145 of which $10,536,645 are due on
demand and $353,500 is due April 2017. The weighted average effective interest rate of the mortgages payable as at
September 30, 2012 was 7.45%. No new mortgages were obtained in the nine months ended September 30, 2012.
The Development’s objective in securing mortgages for its property under development and managing its long-term debt is
to stagger any renewal maturities in order to mitigate the risk of short-term volatilities in the debt markets.
Financing costs represent commitment fees, capital raising fees paid to the Partnership Manager and other fees paid in
connection with securing mortgages and loans receivable. The unamortized balance of financing costs related to
mortgages, securities and debentures at September 30, 2012 was $476,000, which is $440,000 higher than the December
31, 2011 year-end balance. The increase in the unamortized financing costs as at September 30, 2012 is due to the fees
associated with the securities and debenture issuances to September 30, 2012. Offsetting the increase in financing costs for
the period ended September 30, 2012 is recognition of deferred financing costs through incidental rental expenses, in
accordance with the effective interest method. The unamortized portion of the financing costs is netted against the
Development’s mortgages payable and loans payable on the statements of financial position.
Related Party Transactions
League Assets Corp.
Colwood has retained League Assets Corp. (“LAC”), a company under common control with Colwood’s General Partner to
provide advisory, asset management, and administration services. The balance payable to LAC representing the fees
payable is unsecured, without stated repayment terms and bears no interest. Under the terms of the Partnership Agreement,
LAC is entitled to receive an annual administrative services fee equal to 1.0% of the aggregate amount of the capital
contributions for the Class A units and proceeds from issued debentures, an organization and set-up fee (unit issue costs)
88
equal to 6.5% of the aggregate amount of capital contributions during the period for the Class A units, and a loan fee equal
to 6.5% of the aggregate amount of debentures raised during the period for Colwood.
In addition, LAC is entitled to incentive management fees being, in general, 20%, rising to 50% after specified returns have
been made to the limited partners, of amounts paid to the limited partners, in excess of the original capital contributions and
a 10% per annum return thereon.
Under the terms of the Partnership Agreement, Colwood paid or accrued the following fees to LAC for the nine months
ended September 30, 2012: $492,707 in administrative services fees, $606,877 in loan fees, nil in incentive management
fees, and nil in mortgage assumption fees.
Colwood has also entered into a Development Management Agreement with LAC to manage the development of the
Development, in exchange for 3.5% of the average monthly budgeted development costs, excluding land acquisition costs,
financing costs, interest, taxes, and fees payable under the Development Management and Partnership Management
Agreements. In addition, LAC is entitled to leasing fees consistent with current third-party rates and selling commissions
on the execution of all purchase agreements for residential units of the Development equal to $5,000 plus 2.5% of the
amount exceeding $100,000, per residential unit. Under the terms of the Development Management Agreement, Colwood
paid or accrued the following fees to LAC for the nine months ended September 30, 2012: $2.3 million in development
management fees, nil in leasing fees, and nil in selling commissions.
IGW REIT Limited Partnership
The amounts advanced from REIT LP are unsecured, bear interest at 10% per annum and 14% per annum and have no
specified terms of repayment. The parties are related due to common management.
Interest paid or payable to related parties for the nine months ended September 30, 2012 was $4,502,725 (twelve months
ended December 31, 2011 – $6,206,487).
Off-Balance Sheet Arrangements
There were no off-balance sheet arrangements as at the date of this Prospectus.
Financial Risks & Uncertainties
Properties under development are inherently subject to certain risks and uncertainties
check your email
Everybody knows the numbers. Re-hashing them over and over is a waste of time. There are an awful lot of people in here with nothing to lose, and a lot of people who seem to just like the sound of their own voices. The investors need to come to the conclusion that they have been ripped off; there is no other conclusion to arrive at. Then the investors need to put what they have together in a cogent and unemotional document to take to BCSC. They are the only authority than can stop further erosion to whatever may be left. You need to find an actual shareholder that can get the investors list. You need to search title on the Colwood properties.
The sharks are circling.
why search title on colwood? the 1st,2nd and others have total security against this property and to boot as you have clearly said many times its not worth any where near whats owed against it so why search title? what will that do?
just asking is all
If League raised money against properties that they don’t own then that would be an avenue to pursue a fraud investigation. I have seen no proof that it was the case and would mean that the lawyers and auditors falsified documents as well but if AJ or others have info to support those claims then they should provide it to help out others.
Stuart?you see thats where I fail to connect and may be 100% incorrect.I have always assumed that Colwood is not part of the league that I unfortuneatly own.I have always assumed Colwood was a LP and that the “league” has simply lent unsecured funds to colwood? Someone help me out here and point me to documentation where I/we reit holders and IPU holders actually own part of Colwood?
Another example of diversion of funds is those intercompany loans. League charges one half of one percent (0.005) for loan management annually. There is $99,000,000 in intercompany loans, while no interest payments are being made, I’m guessing that the fees due for loan management are being paid to League. That’s $495,000.
These are only a few simple examples. These facts are all disclosed in the various OMs and their amendments. In many cases the deal was changed by shareholder voting (The shareholders being Adam & Manny) long after people had signed. Some investors have been around since 2007 or even earlier.
This is a diversion of funds from their assumed purpose which would be to increase value for the LP member partners.
I don’t see how paying a disclosed management fee is “diverting funds into personal accounts”. I am not saying that I agree with the fees or have an opinion if they are reasonable or not, I am just asking if there is anything paid that was not disclosed or allowed?
Stuart how much do u have invested in the league? I bet Zero? otherwise why would anyone stand up for these crooks?
An why do people seem to think its ok to keep taking fees from a company that has no money to pay fees?? what happened to the BB motto we only get paid when U get paid??????
I am not defending anyone. If Rachelle has proof that corporate funds were diverted to personal accounts as she states then that would be a potential avenue to pursue a fraud investigation.
Well I’m not worried about being sued for defamation, because that particular horse has already left the barn and I am sued and will continue to be in the legal process for years to come.
However, in this instance, divert means specifically
Verb
Cause (someone or something) to change course or turn from one direction to another.
Investors have told me on repeated occasions, that they were told these were very safe investments and that they have absolutely no cause to worry because it was all backed by real estate holdings.
There would be an expectation that League as an entity would be a “going concern” and the expectation would be that investor funds would be used to purchase and improve buildings in a way that would resemble commonly accepted practices in building management. For instance I do actually manage buildings and I use funds to renovate the space and market it for lease. The investment must be linked to increased revenues. I do not see any of these checks and balances or the increased revenues.
An investor would expect to pay a League management company the same as they would pay an outside contractor. All my contracts are linked to revenues received by the owners. But in League’s case they collect their management fees based on a percentage (1%) of the building value. Guess who gets to set the building value? Sometimes an appraiser and sometimes League. I don’t know if Collwood has ever been appraised. I did a comparison for a few of the buildings I managed in the past to compare how that fee structure works out. For example a building I was managing was put for sale for $14,000,000. I was making less than $3000 per month but under League’s fee structure I would have charged $11,666.66 per month for the exact same service.
I haven’t figured out which situation is more disturbing to me. Scenario 1 where League’s actions are illegal or Scenario 2 where League’s actions are legal.
I have said and continue to say they are a Ponzi scheme because their stated underlying business is not profitable and has rarely been profitable. I have documents from another company that relays those same concerns dating back to 2008. If they cannot generate revenue from their rental income then that money must come from somewhere and that somewhere has to be from new investors.
In any case it is not up to me to figure out if something is a crime or not and even further out of my control if the police investigate and bring charges. All I know is that according to BSCS investors gave League $290 million in investment dollars and there are only $40 million remaining as stated assets in their financial statements for IGW.
I also know that if I go to my local ABM machine and knock a little old lady over the head and steal $200 from her, the local police will hunt me down like a dog. But if I devise a scheme involving clever marketing and disclaimers to trick the old lady into giving me $200,000 and I wear a suit, that may in fact be legal. Or as is so often the case, the police may look at ten pages of the thousands of pages of documentation, fail to understand it, mumble about greedy investors doing due diligence, and move onto a case that they can understand, solve, and prosecute with very little pain to their office and legal budget.
Where did you get the “$40 million remaining as stated assets in their financial statements for IGW”? Is that the net assets attributable to unitholders in the 2013 balance sheet? That number does not include IPUs, which are counted as liabilities. If you quote the financial statements and the “$290 million in investment dollars,” then you have to count both IPU amounts (current and non-current) plus units redeemed in League’s history.
That would be my understanding as well Jeremy.
except everyone has forgotten one thing that I already point out.If U stopped league today there would be negative assett value.Colwood loan is not going to be repaid.its does not have an assessed value that would come anywhere near the 125 million owed against it.It also doubtfull Duncan loan will be repaid.The propertys we hold are not worth what is owed against them as there over leveraged.Look at the 13 propertys disposed of.The only people that made money there were restatate sales and LSIS
Total debt verses total assett values is upside down big time and these guys keep taking fees so its only getting worse.throw in the cost of the failed public offering and high monthly overhead we wont be lasting very long.PWC ?? I just can,t understand that total waste of what 2 million ? The only thing thats around near what we payed for it is the 22 million in PAR shares and timbercreek has a strangle hold on those.
On a side note I wonder if we were charged fees by Gant and Arruda to buy those 22 million in public traded shares?
If the two Colwood notes, the Duncan note, and the IGW MIC note are taken out, impairment loss provision (in note 7 of 2013 Q1 FS) will be tripled to $98.7M (currently $31.6M). That is a further reduction in asset value of $67.1M (98.7 – 31.6), which will wipe out everyone below IPUs, especially common shareholders, but IPUs remain relatively intact prior to receivership. It remains to be seen how the liquidation of assets will impact IPUs.
If the two Colwood notes, the Duncan note, are taken out, impairment loss provision (in note 7 of 2013 Q1 FS) will be tripled to $XXXX (currently $31.6M). That is a further reduction in asset value of $67.1M (98.7 – 31.6),
who here in their correct mind really thinks and believe via some miricle colwood and duncan notes will ever be repaid?? NOT going to happen! Thats why i dont allow them to be included in my take of the league . Those loans will never ever be repaid in my estimation (My personal opinion) and the way i currently view things so i just ignore those loans payable to league as there simply unrealistic ideals that they will be repaid as things stand. The ONLY way those loans especially COLWOOD could ever be repayable would be if some idiot comes along with a dream and deep pockets and is able to cash us out and complete the Colwood project and if you seriously beleive thats about to happen i have a gold mine i need you to buy from me also
To Paul Dunbar:
I wrote “if the notes are taken out,” which means if the notes are eliminated or written off, so I’m confused as to why you’re replying as if I wrote the opposite (notes are repaid). In fact, my previous message was about how the default of those loans will reduce asset value, so you don’t need to vent about how those loans won’t be repaid. By the way, there is no “negative asset value,” only negative shareholders’ equity.
jermey My apologies I absolutely misread your post
In my mind the loans are actually a symptom of a greater problem. Obviously the buildings make some income, but for the most part, it’s not enough to cover the expenses and mortgages and refinancing. That is the core problem. As a REIT League needs to make money from the operations of it’s buildings. That income is what needs to pay investors.
There is a fee charged for securing financing for the projects and a fee charged for annual loan management.
At every step of the way, with every single transaction League makes, a little more investor equity is leached away and more investor money is diverted from the buildings LP’s and into companies that are wholly privately owned by Emanuel and Adam.
What evidence do you have that Manny and Adam are improperly diverting funds from the REIT and LPs to their private companies?
Stuart – why are you asking her to provide evidence that funds were “improperly” diverted. I don’t see the word “improperly” anywhere in her post. Can you provide evidence that they haven’t diverted any funds to wholly privately owned companies?
I think we need to be careful not to put words in the mouth of someone who is already facing litigation for defamation.
“Improperly diverting funds” is posted where?? this question leads me ask what happened to the league boys motto” we only get paid when u get paid”
we no longer get distributions or interest payments so why should they collect FEES especially on project propertys that sold at a lose or zero profit?
“Diverting funds” by definition suggests an impropriety, I am not putting words in anyone’s mouth. At this point it is pretty clear that Rachelle isn’t worried about any litigation. She referred to Gant and Arruda as “Ponzi schemers” as recently as this month on her blog.
I was wondering how much in Fees Gant+Arruda has raped us for in the selling mostly at a loss the several(13) propertys disposed of in the last couple years
JEFF to clarify what I mean is Yes your correct.The loans were made in huge error and should have never been made.My point is now that there made if we at least got paid the11% monthly or even quarterly we would be a lot lot better off .It will never happen just saying IF.
Jeff thanks for the reply.I would say its more than obvious they were way more risky than anything the league was presented to me as in regards to investing in.I,am not sure I agree with you in regards to the distributions being stopped because of the high risk loans made to Duncan,Colwood Etc which are outstanding.Agreed they should have never made them.BUT IF we were gettting paid the 11% interest monthly thats” Quote Accruing Unquote”it would be a much different story and I think Distributions would still being honoured
Another Theory i have that has hurt the lack of funds to pay distributions is the assignment of the PAR shares.They pay almost a Quarter of a million dollars per month and I firmly beleive there stealing these funds to make Timbercreek loan payment,s on loans that have NOTHING to do with IGW REIT investors.Loans from Timbercreek for non REIT investments.I beleive they get away with This because we gave GANT and ARRUDA(unknowingly) the authority to lend,borrow or assign league assetts to non league related assetts. I may be wrong BUT this is what I personally beleive is to be the case here.SO if we were getting the 11% on the 100 million owed us plus the distributions from PAR we would be getting 14 million or 1.16 M per month and hence we would stil be getting our IPU distributions
Look at the millions they have wasted since with KPMG on the failed Prospectus and the PWC is going to be very exspensive
http://www.bclaws.ca/EPLibraries/bclaws_new/document/ID/freeside/00_96163_01
What I won’t do is any more unpaid work for a wealthy lawyer.
So Allison let’s follow your logic. You don’t want the investors to get their hopes up? So they shouldn’t sue League? I guess they should just give up because it’s too hard? Maybe the investors should just rely on the management skills and fiduciary responsibility of Adam Gant and Emmanuel Arruda to get their money back?
I conversely do not care about the investor’s feelings but their money. They deserve to get it back. I’m pretty sure that most investors would happily take 25 cents on the dollar right now and feel like they dodged a bullet.
Frankly being wrong is just Tuesday for me, I’ve been wrong many times in my life. I’d much rather be wrong than a person who won’t stand up and gives up every time they get a lawyer letter because they want it to end.
Did Ms. McGrann allow you to take all your comments off the internet and give you a free pass? No she didn’t. And again it doesn’t matter if you blink because until I give up, it isn’t over is it?
I do have a plan, both to defend myself legally and to help get the investor’s monies back. I’m applying all my energies towards those goals. You are wasting my time and energy. I don’t care what you think because all your ranting is completely unproductive.
The police will not investigate unless directed to do so by the BCSC or another securities regulator. There is a process.
The only path for the investors to get their money back is to sue civilly. It will take any person pursuing legal action probably a 50 to 100 hours of time to begin to understand their overly complex corporate structure. By joining forces and using the same lawyer, investors will avoid duplicating this expense.
So again here are the choices
1 – Sue and maybe get some money back but have to put a few $$$ out
2 – Rely on Adam Gant and Emanuel Arruda to pay your money back
3 – Give up your money and kiss it good bye – because “There’s no money left” and “you don’t want to get your hopes up”
People are calling me everyday to sign up for the lawsuit and find out their rights. There is no commitment. You have to answer a few lawyer questions, and contribute towards minor expenses. No one is forcing you to sign but know this, there will be a lawsuit and if you don’t join it your priority behind it. I’m not sure why people are so convinced that the lawyer will be unable to access all the companies that do have money in them and the family trusts. Charges have been laid and Adam Gant and Emanuel Arruda have admitted to malfeasance and paid fines. Wrongdoing is now a matter of record. Just today there was another admission to the Alberta Securities Commission.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
Edmund Burke
Please, people it is not acceptable that you have lost your money and been misled. It is time to come forward as a cohesive group and work together to stop League from misleading other people and taking their money. You were not foolish or did bad due diligence, you were targeted and victimized in a very calculating process that has misled many other people. This includes lenders, newspapers, accountants, lawyers and regulators.
eh? Who said anything about giving up? Not me. Ever. Fact check before you spout darling.
You’ve never given up? Ever?
AJ says:
September 23, 2013 at 12:52 am
I’m done. If people are still stupid enough to invest in League, so be it. I won’t be here to help anyone any more.
You love a soap opera, don’t you CL. Please realize that I have been at this far longer than anyone else in here.
Quite the opposite actually. I don’t like drama.
Normally I would have moved right on past your post, but I guess I got caught up in the moment and wanted to support Rachelle who appears to be consistently supportive of the investors. This isn’t to say that you have not been supportive; I just find some of your comments are not helpful or kind. When I read your reply to her post, it came across to me as very condescending and unkind, and as Rachelle mentioned in her post, unproductive.
As a point of clarification, investors in IGW haven’t “lost” anything yet. Distributions have stopped. Might be a little premature to write off 75% of your investment. Secondly, Gant and Arruda haven’t been “charged” with anything. An administrative action was taken by the BCSC and they paid a fine.
Enter the #1 BIG problem. Gant and Arruda have taken any equity the IGW REIT shares holders may have such as 22 million in PAR.UN shares and assigned it as collateral against loans they have taken out with Timbercreek and others and They have Used this(loans) for Duncan LP and Colwood LP. Another big problem is stemming from this is there is no true ability to make loan payments to Timbercreek,make loan payments to covor mortgages on REIT propertys,Make Duncan LP loan payment,s etc etc. and meet day to day operational exspences.(Once NEW investment sources virtually for the most part dried up)the only income is from rental income form REIT propertys and Monthly distributions from PAR shares
So basically if they sold the PAR shares all that money just goes to pay loans secured by these shares(eg). they have taken 50million or more in fees which has eroaded the seed capitol invested by us investors so when you see a 300 million investment figure one has to realize its really only 250M and 100 million is in my opinion not recoverable from Duncan and Colwood and so the 150M left over 30 million has been written off on other failed property investments so now were down to 110 million of which the propertys that were bought with that money we owe as much or more on them.Thats why there is NO money. The debt exceeds the net worth. the monthly payments required to keep league REIT solvent exceeds our property and public shares income. the only way League would survive was if Colwood sold tomorrow for around 125 million and Duncan sold for at least 45-50 million.and the balance of propertys sold at 85% of assessed values or better.Now you may wonder why I bring DuncanLP into the mix after all its a stand alone LP and yes it is except U and I lent Duncan LP 20 million of REIT money and we(reit) also have Guarantees for the other loans to timbercreek by assignment of PAR shares used to purchase and build Duncab Mall.SO Duncan Mall has to sell for X number of dollars to pay loans,and pay the reit back
One more thing I forgot.COLWOOD is not worth anywhere near 125 million and Some on here says its worth 20 million.I dont know but its certainly not worth 125 million Duncan mall is never going to sell for no 45 or 50 million.NEVER
The bottom line is this IF GANT and ARRUDA had not put a red cent of our money in COLWOOD or DUNCAN we would be in decent shape.Not great but at least we could liquidate and get 80 cents on the dollar or so.The last two posts are all my personal opinion of how I see league and its Value(or lack of)
I concur with Paul – The reason the distro stopped to both IGW and IPU is because of all the O/S loans the majority of which may never get re-paid and or are accruing interest that is not physically being paid to the REIT
IMO all talk about ‘fraud’ and or ‘mismanagement’ needs to focus on the legitmacy of those loans
whom those loans benefited, who decided to make them, did they meet the mandate of the OM, did they produce an annual cash return, were they risky beyond the mandate of the OM, etc
See your post on True Value of League New Entities dated August 1. Are you trying to push people away from suing as it appears you have an agenda of some kind. How did you conclude on August 1 that investors would be wiped out.
My post above is directed to Stuart Little.
I have said all along that this is a high risk investment. It appears to me as though there is not much equity. That has nothing to do with whether there is cause to sue someone. The working opportunities fund filed for bankruptcy protection today. It wasn’t a great investment either but according to the logic here investors should be suing them as well.
Stuart, in your comment on August 1 you stated your opinion was that everyone was wiped out, meaning 100 percent loss. In your comment above at 9 pm you stated that your opinion was that investors would be premature to conclude there was a 75 percent loss. What changed for you?
Mick,
I don’t think that there will be much for investors at the end. That doesn’t mean that based on where we are today I would immediately write-off 75% of my investment.
There is money to recover from League it’s just not in the Limited Partnerships and IGW. It is the height of foolishness to think that any securities firm is interested in the $5000 office expenses fee. There is only two ways to get your money back.
1 – Adam Gant and Emmanuel Arruda make good on their promises to you and pay you back.
2 – You hire a lawyer and they go get it, there is money in LISI, and the two management companies LAC and LLAP as well as the family trusts and probably other places.
It is up to you what you chose to do. Allison has said over and over there is no money, but in fact there is money, but you’ll have to sue to get it. It’s that simple. For what it’s worth, I have looked at the situation carefully and I’m helping as much as I can to support the legal action by the investors I have shared all the information I have and I will continue to do so. Many investors have been kind enough to share past documents with me. In my mind, that is the only chance you will get even 25 cents on the dollar.
Anyone wanting more information is welcome to call me or email me. Just don’t show up at my house and scare the dogs.
If you are owed money by IGW, Duncan or any other other REIT or LP, you cannot simply sue the company and recover funds from family trusts and other unrelated entites unless you can prove fraud and show that funds were inappropriately moved. The whole purpose of a family trust and corporate shield is try protect them against external claims. Unless I have missed something nobody has provided any evidence of fraud.
IMO Stuart is correct, again, which is why I keep focusing on the term ‘mis-management’ rather than ‘fraud’ – As IMO the entire problem with this investment is the O/S loans
If one can prove the Mgt Co did not act in the best interests of the unit holders, say loaning funds to other co’s also owned by themselves, loaning funds in cases where the return contradicted their own OM, and can show that all distro was halted because of these loans, they may be a strong legal and civil case of gross mismanagement (or not) both on a Mgt level and a trustee level
Note – I have asked Stuart numerous times to comment on all of the above and he has yet to respond, however for those here who believe there is also fraud, no probs, someone has to prove it, we’d all be elated if anyone can do so, but IMO it’s alot easier to prove mis-management
unless you are an experienced securities lawyer you dont know that
It would help if you dialed back the rhetoric. Phrases like “the height of foolishness” only make you appear stupid when you are proven wrong. Any lawyer will take a case for $11M to 22M dollars whether they can win it or not. I have nothing against Carey. I just hate to see more investors get their hopes up again.
I am one of those investors who is indecisive about legal action because if the League can find financing (if) and construction at Collwood continues, and there is still a possibility of the loans being paid back, which I’m guessing if a pre-req for a TSX listing, and that is still the best way to recover a higher percentage of principle, more legal action vs the League will delay all the above
and is counter-productive to getting more of one’s principle back
Unfort it’s a catch 22, there is no right or wrong action, everyone has to do what they feel is in their best interests, I’m just saying I’m not ready to give up on 30% of my investment, but I fully understand why others feel differently, and why many are angry….
I agree with you AJ. $300 and a few hours of articled student time gets you a lawsuit. Firms then hope to get a lsettlement before they actually have to start spending any real money.
Testing comments
Everyone agrees that this whole thing is complicated. Everyone also agrees that there is little or no equity after 1st, 2nd mortgages and liens are paid. It would take even an experienced securities lawyer a very long time to go through everything there is to go through, and then he will conclude the same thing: there is no money. If he gets even $5000 from each investor, that is a nice payday even for a ‘well-heeled’ lawyer, IMHO.
BCSC said they are not finished. That is some faint hope.
BCSC will not help anyone get money back.A lawyer that is a specialist in this field may be able to recover some money somehow
Jeremy could you clarify what you mean by class action
SM, you need to contact Carey D. Veinotte, cv@tvsbarristers.com who Jeremy is talking about…..so contact Carey.
is anybody out there actually organizing some kind of legal action? please let me know.
TO Kam
we are trying to get some organization going here e mail me at samy44483@gmail.com
Legal counsel Carey Veinotte is looking into class legal action. He is perhaps the only knowledgeable lawyer on this case.
Has he ever said what he thinks there will be for investors from the action?
I am very confused as to why you would be asking Jeremy. Why are you not asking Carey D. Veinotte, cv@tvsbarristers.com
I am sorry you are confused.
Class legal action will have a contingency fee of 20 to 40%, depending on at what point the money is recovered. Lawsuit creditors have a higher claim than IPU creditors. It cannot be determined how much IPU holders can recover at this point, but it is safe to presume common shares are wiped out.
That isn’t true. If there is a judgement in any lawsuit then it will be an unsecured debt. If the lawyers felt that this was a strong case then they wouldn’t be asking people to cover $10K to $20K in expenses, it would all be part of the contingency fee.
Exactly. Confusion over.
Harry? iam not sure i undertsand your point of view regarding lawyer fees.Why would a lawyer especially in this case a well heeled one waste their bloody time on this lawsuit if all they stood to collect was office fees.One would think they thought they stood a good chance to recoup some net capitol? as thats all your allowed to sue for
According to the Corporation Act of BC, any shareholder has the right to demand a shareholder’s list, as well as the Master Management Agreement and the Trust Declaration.
Unfortunately, this act won’t help the investors who are unitholders and not shareholders. No one will be able to force League to produce a list of unitholders. Or are you asking that in relation to something other than getting a list of investors maybe? In any case, you would have to be an actual shareholder to request the list.
OK is league AKA IGW REIT actually a BC registered company? If so then if the REIT unit holders are not the share holders? then who is?
I believe you are wrong.
Holding units or a note does not make you a shareholder same as owning a GIC or term depsoit with BMO doesn’t make you a shareholder there either. The REITs and LPs have been structured so that ownership is actually tightly controlled.
KD, Jeremy is correct….i was told the same thing a couple of weeks ago, when i tried to inquire about the IPU payout status.
There are plenty of REIT’s out there with valid business models. A REIT or any invest-able company must make income from their core business. In a REIT’s case that’s income from rent they get from their buildings. League has not done that or focused on that and according to the video they are getting even further away from that by “developing” property. It’s not even inconceivable that a REIT would have to lower or stop their distributions in extraordinary times. But losing/frittering away $250 million in equity is harder to excuse. There is a complete lack of fiduciary responsibility happening.
I believe that blaming, criticizing will not help us. We should form a group of investors from Lower Mainland, B.C and Victoria and meet with the League Group face to face. Any body can lead this group. I have significant investment in IPU.S
Did you get a response from anyone?
Here is a contact you could try, samy44483@gmail.com
What will you accomplish in a meeting with League? You can speak to League rep Paul Maclean personally toll free 1 855 775 5524. Adam Gant released two videos to investors, and that’s all the BS he will say.
Suspending IPU dividends was League’s last-ditch attempt to preserve working capital long enough for one more attempt at going public. I just spoke to Paul Maclean at League head office, and he confirms that League will run out of cash in 2 to 6 months, at which point, League will be in receivership. (Needless to say, League is in a futile race against time to go public.) It remains to be seen how much IPU holders can recover. Common shareholders will lose everything.
League sales reps, who are all part-salaried and part-commissioned, will all be on commission-only sometime this month. Because there is no possibility of collecting commissions, they will all be laid off by November. It is probable that the sales offices will be closed by December.
Just another of Many Many things that had and have bugged me about Gant and Arruda over the last few years was and I asked several people this several times in league head office
where?? does all the money come from to employ like 120 people, FOUR fancy headquarters spread across Canada? pay all these COO,CFO,CEO,BOD and trustees.Pay Fees everytime a transaction takes place etc etc etc and thinking back I would never get a straight answer.
I saw my 450K slipping away 2 years ago in the Duncan fiasco and the Bull shit they fed me is just(looking back) was crimminal to say the least
Jeremy, you seriously called up League and the IR just point blank said they will be finished in 2 to 6 months? I find that level of clarity hard to believe. I read in the paper that they needed some financing before they could go public. So maybe someone here can enlighten me: what’s the deal with the IPO, what difference does it make? The IPO will raise zero dollars based on what I can gather. So how does a “last ditch” effort to get a listing address a funding problem? And if it doesn’t solve the immediate problem, why is it being pursued now?
I don’t think Paul Maclean is an investment rep (ie, he’s not in sales). League employees are actually quite helpful. He confirmed that in a year, League will either be a public company or be gone. As a public company, League can sell shares on the stock exchange. No IPO raises zero dollars. If there’s any possibility of that, there will be no IPO, and such is the case with League.
R the investors SOL or do they still have any hope of getting their IPU money back?
Get yourself informed and up to date by going back and read all the posts on this Blog and read all news releases from the league and then you would then have a pretty good idea on the answer to your question.its not a simple yes or no at this point in time
I’ve been an avid reader of blogs on League Assets going back to 2008, many of which have been shut down due to pressure from League Assets. From very early in the the game, the OM’s were easy to access if anyone took the time to research. This “investment” stunk from inception.
Although I feel sorry for the many people who have lost money here, I can’t help but recall a timeless saying.. A fool and his money are soon parted.
Armchair quarter backs like harvardGuy do not nor will help investors in the league
I personally from now on other than( Allison or Rachele) am not interested in non involved peoples posts.You can all go smoke up someone else,s butts as your rants here are of no help at all.
Devils advocate here: have either of you tried to get any money out yet, or are you rolling your money back in (DRIP) ?
receive monthly payments
Dear Paul,
I looked around and I did not see an OM so I could look at the financials. All that other stuff is just noise and they can write whatever they want on there as long as they put a disclaimer (which they have) You may be signing up for another XXXXXXX. I don’t have enough information to tell.
Also no one is watching those ads. Let me remind you League is still legally advertising “great returns too”
I have the current OM and every things looks fine.I have my accountant reading it also and he says it all looks fine.I,am pretty street savey after getting such a f–king from Gant and Arruda so I really research things emensley now
we are invested in skyline both the reit and commercial excellent company no comparison to the losers at league
SM I agree with you 100% Not even close(thank god)
I have no reason to think that Skyline is not a great investment but something doesn’t sound right. You say that you lost $400K on Duncan and stand to lose $1.2M on IGW yet you jump right back in to a similar investment (ie a private REIT).
Harrry…..we are all quilty of chasing risky investments with higher than average returns…I hope Skyline works out for everyone, but until one gets their principle back, nobody has made anything, that’s the lesson everyone should have learned via the League
No unless something changes the only way any of us will ever get new distribution(s) or be redeemed is suing for it, hoping a regulator makes em give back to us, hoping the IGW REIT O/S loans get paid back, and then whole thing goes public and then perhaps the shares are sellable
That’s the new reality
Sorry I absolutely disagree .I don,t find Skyline in the “Risky investment venue” and i,am not “chasing anything”.There at this point in time is no reasonable comparison of Skyline to the League other than there Both considered Private “REIT” Its Kinda like saying a lambourghini is a KarmanGia because there both considered Automobiles
Paul, as of the end of 2012, Skyline Apt REIT looks to have a working capital deficit in the multi-millions. So does the other entity Skyline Equity (?). That’s red flag #1 – also seen in another REIT that has generated much discussion here. They have tens of millions in LT loans due within 5 years. Interest rates are rock bottom today; you’d better hope that’s also the case when they try to rollover the debt. Because if that isn’t the case, there’s a big problems for this investment thesis, apart from the fact they can’t pay their short term debts without bank overdrafts. I don’t think you are very street savvy or street “savey”. However you do provide evidence that there will always be someone ready to hold the bag when others need to get out of their positions. So on behalf of dealers everywhere, thank you “emmensley” or something like that.
KD I sent your rediculous post to the head of SKYLINE and here is the response:
RESPOSE:This guy likes to think he knows a lot… probably a “dealer” himself. My first word of advice to this person – educate yourself on reading financials if you are going to use them as you red flags. Look at actual incomes and remove paper expenses and see where the cash flows are.
How shocking… the REIT has mortgages coming due in the next 5 years!! Hahaha. Today’s interest rates mean nothing in this scenario… if it is a 7 year term mortgage coming due it may have been made at a rate of 5.8%, so if it came due to today and we renewed at 10 years for 4.25% we’re laughing. Let’s say interest rates are up in three years like he says is such a bad thing – they would have to be up over 1.5% for it to mean anything (and at this point we would probably get a 3 or 5 year term so the rate would have to be way up to near the 5.7% it would be coming off). If they were up in that time frame then we have had inflation working for us over those years (inflation is good for real estate holders as it is a great hedge) to increase cash flows and the property values. This interest rate argument is so narrow minded and uneducated it is laughable!
Working capital deficit of multi-millions?? He needs an education in reading financials. The “deficit” is a tax mirage – add back in the CCA and there is a huge amount of cash available. He is clearly uneducated and the statements he makes prove it!!
If he had any idea of how a REIT was run, the bank draft comment would not be made… or would he be more comfortable knowing there was a bunch of cash sitting in a bank account? Earning 1% interest while paying an investor 7.5% wouldn’t be very smart now would it? Good thing he isn’t managing a REIT for anyone!
I could go on and on and on, but people like this are not worth the time or energy.
This is what makes me really laugh at You KD . NONE of the of the investors whom include accountants (even CRA accountants!), lawyers, businessmen, financial advisors, real estate owners and brokers…etc.Why are they not smart enough to see all the red flags that you seem to think there are? Odd isn’t it KD you idiot
Whether KD’s red flags are legitimate or not isn’t what worries me, the fact that a CEO of a company would respond in such a way to questions about the company from a potential investor boggles the mind. At least Gant made an attempt to engage people who disagreed with him. Sorry but I don’t believe your story about investing millions in these deals. It really sounds like you work for Skyline and are just using these forums to solicit business. I can’t believe that someone who has been burned so much would actually stand behind this type of behaviour and simply dismiss any comments about performnce or risk.
Harry your just another misinformed asshole that shows up here once and awhile.
Its the CCO whom I talk to. Iam using my real name unlike you pricks.I live in BC.This guy like me does not take lightly to people like you and KD posting rediculous untruths and he is very passionette about SKYLINE. Its my own business if I invest with them.I disbelieve everything KD has posted as its simply not true.You have not a clue as to my lost investment with League and DuncanLP.I only posted it(amounts) to hopefully get in contact with other investors whom lost large amounts.Not to have some asshole like you come on here and critisize people whom have lost small fortunes to the league. and then start the dialogue BS your posting.
enough about skyline Iam completely at peace with that set up.Its the league investors situation we (investors) need to focus on.I will assume you have nothing or close to nothing in the league so really what is your reason for posting your utter crap here and accusing me of things that are rediculous and totally not true and totally unfounded????? Iam a fucking mechanic not a financial employee of skyline you asshole.
I am also in BC.
How best to get in touch with you?
wayne? Were U asking to get in touch with me??
email me at ticat900@mail.com
http://www.skylineonline.ca/content/historical-performance
its all right here in black and white. I,am looking at the commercial one which i believe will be even better
How is the NAV they (Skyline) publish verified ?
League also used an NAV that turned out to be bogus.
Pat My best advice to you if your the least bit interested in SKYLINE and their current 9% return on commercial reit as I am is CONTACT them.They are Very Very open about anything you want to ask them or be proved to you by them in regards to the investment reit they currently offer.They will mail you the OM and financials statements
all U have to do is request it. Talk to Jeff Teeter CCO. very good guy to converse with and very knowledgable. I have talked to him at great length. Very straight shooter and knows whats up
IF and I say IF we had better knowledge 7 years ago and were well schooled in REITS as we are now and know what is legal and what,s not and what a OM is and would have received OM and read it and understood things etc and If one would have bought Skyline we would all be on the beach in the Bahamas sipping cool ones and laughing our asses off.Oh did I say IF?
I was listening to AM680 on the internet this morning and Skyline Apartment REIT was advertising compound returns of 17% per annum.
its entirely possible if you reinvest your monthly distribution each month and earn distribution on the distribution plus if you bought the units when they were 11.00 and there now 13.00+ u have done very well. Take 500K at 9% and reinvest the 9% each year and after 5 years u have $769311 which is over 11% simple return and no UNIT increase now in 5 years there more likely will be a increase in unit value
Jeremy meant the only private REIT in League, not in the whole world.
Jeremy says:
October 6, 2013 at 12:40 am
I’m not convinced there is fraud. Maybe Adam Gant and Emanuel Arruda are just spectacularly bad businessmen.
=============================================================================
To build the facade of a legitimate real estate investment business and convince more than 2000 investors to part with $290 million from which they have siphoned off tens of millions for their own use suggests their business is not real estate but fraudulent conveyance.
In the pursuit of making money for themselves they have been spectacularly successful businessmen!
League is not the only private REIT by a long shot. Jeremy I agree with you that the CFO, CEO, COO are employees at League and it’s amazed me how often these positions turn over in League. A few times I’ve made the mistake of working at a company like that too. I couldn’t wait to get the hell out of Dodge. This may be a generalization but CFO’s and accounting staff are not usually those that contribute to high staff turn over in a company. That is troubling and a bad sign in my opinion
To Paul Dunbar:
Being related to Ray Charles doesn’t mean one is blind. The CFO, CEO, COO, etc. are employees, and therefore are the inmates running the asylum. Board directors are not employees and can fire officers of the company. In other words, if the REIT were a public company, Adam Gant and Emanuel Arruda would have been accountable to the board of directors, but because it is a private company, Gant and Arruda are accountable to no one. I admit, however, that having a board of directors is no assurance that the company would have been better run.
whatever I was still wondering what you ,mean by “the only private REIT is also a failing REIT”.
In all probability most of their personal assets have been moved off shore. A $10M house doesn’t begin to cover the investors. People have been sitting around watching this happen for years and have done nothing. I think it is too late. If your goal is jail time for them, then pursue that, but there is no money.
I’m not convinced there is fraud. Maybe Adam Gant and Emanuel Arruda are just spectacularly bad businessmen. It is no coincidence that the only private REIT is also a failing REIT. As a private company, the REIT doesn’t have a board of directors, and so the inmates are left to run the asylum, so to speak.
Jeremy? Iam wanting to know what you mean by” the only private REIT is also a failing REIT”.they have CFO,ceo COO, trustees etc and in this case there all related to Ray Charles
Yes, that is what has been said at least 10 times.
If League states they have $40 million in assets but they received $290 million in investor monies, they have managed to fritter away, move, or lose $250 million. That’s if they are being truthful about valuations. I have been looking at this thing since June and even now I feel the truth of all this will only be revealed by a forensic audit.
There is money in LISI, LAC and LLAP but those companies are owned not by the investors but by Adam Gant and Emanuel Arruda. Some of the money will be in the family trusts.
If you believe the valuations in the financial statements, common shares have lost half their value. Realistically, they’re worthless. IPUs might have lost some value, too. The auditors also mentioned impending loan maturities, and that without new funding, League won’t be able to meet its debt obligations and will no longer be in business. What will happen next year? Chance of League going pubic: virtually zero. Chance of League running out of cash: very high. Without IPU sales, League will deplete all its cash in months. Chance of League filing for CCAA: high. (CCAA is a stay of execution for companies on the brink of bankruptcy.) Chance of League being placed into receivership after CCAA: high.
hare are the links: http://league.ca/images/fs/igw_reit_ifrs_fs_q1_2013_final.pdf
2nd link: http://league.ca/images/fs/igw_reitifrs_fs_2012_final.pdf
Tried reading the march 2013 financials sent out tonite?
Can someone explain what the difference is between a Current liability IPU of 22,387,589.00 and a non current IPU liability of 100,640,802.00 means?
Also what is accounts payable for $13,446,000.00.???? what is this for?
Also they show $105,969,000.00 as loans receivable from related party,s. They also show $40,821,000.00 as net equity??
The 106 Million is owed by Colwood and DuncanLP neither of which can pay a penny so in reality we are equity wise in the hole 65 million the way I read things round figures wise
Anyone is welcome to dispute my figures as iam no accountant
Do you mind sending me that document?
a current liability is less than a year’s liability, i.e. it matures within the next calendar year. non-current is longer than a year.
The loan receivable from Colwood should be written down by management under IFRS, and certainly a capable auditor as the borrower (Colwood LP) cannot pay it. However, there is a theoretical possibility that it will get paid, and as such management can show it as equity. Clearly an issue when it comes to fraud charges being laid by the RCMP or BC SC or in lawsuits by investors. When is a loan receivable an asset and was it properly disclosed. Clearly one can argue it is deception, fraud, misleading, a misrepresentation.
Why not have this looked at by http://www.ica.bc.ca, the Institute for Chartered Accountants for BC ?
Thanks Pat.I kinda thought that but was not sure.I wonder what the accounts payable for $13,446,000.00.?? Thats a big accounts payable? or is that what IPU holders are currently owed possible? we are not 40 mill in equity if we write off collwood and Duncan then we are 65Mill at a loss
Adam secures an additional $20 million in financing. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/partners-reit-amends-extends-revolving-160752309.html
$20M will cover their interest payments for a while. There are no other unencumbered properties. My favourite part is “The amended revolver also now includes a $5 million carve out tied to the Partners REIT’s bank account to efficiently managed daily cash inflows and outflows.” There goes their lawsuit for defamation I bet.
the whole 20 million financing deal is to do with PAR.UN.It has absolutely nothing to do with League in my opinion.Two entirely different deals.the only connection to us is we own around 15% of the shares in PAR.UN
I think that the money came from banks who are already in up to their eyeballs. Adam has a propensity for ignoring the red ink and convincing people that there will eventually be black. He is still convinced he can take this mess public, and the $20M was likely loaned to Partners for that purpose.
Pat, if you read upwards a bit, you will see that I have spoken with RCMP, BCSC, and there is plenty going on behind the scenes that we prefer that Gant not know about. I am limited because I am not an investor, and I just bring forward things that investors can act upon, like the link to the competition bureau.
I started going to the media ages ago, and they only print what they can (or want to try to) prove.
Unless investors, or this esteemed small group here, start sending letters to Christy Clark, the Finance Minister, the BC SC, newspapers or the RCMP nothing much will happen. we have seen in both the ASC case with Foundation Capital and OSC with Leaside that other security commissions act more aggressively. Unless there is more public outcry besides this measly blog and Rachelle’s http://www.landlordrescue.ca blog not much will happen and more investors will be fleeced.
http://www.competitionbureau.gc.ca/eic/site/cb-bc.nsf/frm-eng/GH%C3%89T-7TDNA5
Speaking of advertising (something I have been doing since 1979) has anyone ever followed the blue book link? I cannot believe they are allowed to claim the gains made from the properties listed; they all lost money as near as I can tell.
Also, have you ever filled out a form that asks if you are RETIRED? Directly targeting seniors.
http://leagueinvestment.ca/bluebook?mid=gaw&cid=content&gid=remarketing&gclid=CIbP4Iqt-7kCFYU5QgodbxcAMA
so they show 4 LP ventures that they claim made money? those were all stand alone ventures same as DUNCAN LP is.There was no direct gain to reit holders or IPU holders so really they(LP) have nothing to do with the argument/fight we are currently in. Funny they dont show Duncan LP with 100% loss of Capitol to LP participants now do they or How many MILLIONS they wrote off in the failed Ontario condo fiasco
this is how misleading this gang is.I still cant get over that Parkinson dude in the Vidio actually bragging that one of the league assett,s is the 126 million in non collectable loans outstanding.How that is a assett is beyound my thinking.
At the end of the second video Adam Gant is unable to disguise an involuntary shrug of his shoulders. Translation:
Well there it is guys what can I say, you’re screwed and you or I can do nothing to change it.
Nice job on the disclosure though, it only cost $250,000 of investor’s money to get this belated piece of information
I see a tremendous increase in google advertising all of a sudden, maybe they need more money.
It is very interesting that “manny” AKA mini G has not been seen nor heard of or from for many months now? Maybe secretly working on a new Blue book or Coats of arms or Corporate backgrounder addition#2
That’s a joke. 🙂
I hear Manny got a new acting gig in a Latin telenovella. He should be featured on The Soup next week.
Ya. So where is Manny? Has anyone talked to him in the past few weeks?
Pretty sure I walked past him the other day on the street. Seemed perfectly fine, quite relaxed actually.
The problem is that the only thing that would make them profitable is FFO or Funds From Operations. That would mean that they would have to turn around all their properties and make money from them. But they are selling all their properties, so the income that those should produce is leaving the REIT. But if they paid too much for the properties or overleveraged them that doesn’t work out either.
Thats the main problem facing the reit problems and hence part of the problem created
1)FFO don,t service total debt.2)Debt being their rediculous fees,Mortgage payments and distributions never mind the fancy offices across Canada and a huge staff of 120 people etc.
Had they not wasted our money on Duncan and Colwood and put it in par shares we would laughing our arses off even though they took(stole in my opinion) 50+ million in fees
The other issue is the amount of interest paid on the first & second mortgages and intercompany loans. Because their credit is so bad, they can’t get decent rates.
yes and thats included in what I called debt (part of #2) my point was there is no way they could expect to continue to pay distributions once the new money quit flowing in at the rate that they required because they had secured mortgage rates that were too high to secure properties. I think thats where the question of PONZI scheme surfaces. Yes they took investor money and bought propertys as promised and promised 8-9% returns but Never anticipated that the new money would dry up as fast as it did and hence the problems started and we all know the rest of the story so far
Look at that puke look right into the camera and lie. That is really hard for an honest person to do.
Thanks. I especially love how at the bottom of the email they disclose the beneficiaries. Some freaking stones if you ask me
ANYONE? watch the 3 tear jerking Vidios that Adam Gant and John Parkinson put togehter and sent out to all via email? I was really surprized (not) to learn that ALL league problems were entirely caused because of the 2008-9 credit crisis .Do they really think were all that
f–king dumb/Gullable? Did You all know that we are in good shape really as we have 126 million in party related loans due us.I wonder what Century those may be repaid? Is this John Parkinson that f–king stupid or just a good yes man?? Duncan was just bad timing and were working on new mortgages.OK BUT what if you would have done what you promised and spent a total of 27 million to buy and upgrade and not the 62 million you owe on it?? why even tell us this bullshit?? the LP investors will never ever see their money repaid no matter what new mortgages they apply to this piece of shit.Then they start bragging about PWC? another f–king waste of money.U start a business and run it for 7 years into the ground and then you think PWC for a couple million bucks will wave their magic wand and all will be well????
The good news is that scalley little prick was not in the Vidio
Would you mind forwarding it to me?
sent them to you
I agree with Allison Iam starting to really take a stand that this whole deal was orcrastraited on purpose.Just look at how many identities(TEN) they/we now have and how confusing the whole issue is.All smoke and mirrors.Very very complicated and the more I read and the more I research i,am thinking it was all on purpose to hide fees and earnings and expenses etc.
and remove liability from Gant and Arruda and put it on the league in General as its pretty obvious that,s what the public offering was partially for in my view of things.I could be wrong but thats my view and iam out over a million dollars
At least the regulators in the First Leaside case are going to see that investors get paid before fines:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/brokerage-regulator-bars-former-first-leaside-executives/article14541667/
Here’s one in Alberta: a judge has seized their personal assets at least
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/alberta-regulator-lays-fraud-charges-against-former-pastor/article14643028/
Ironic…Allison, notice that at the bottom of the link one of the sponsors is LEAGUE!!!! Unreal!
QUOTE
Carlos says:
October 2, 2013 at 1:18 am
Something must be done and soon. I invested my entire life savings, including RRSP funds. I put my faith in League based on the documents presented. I have not slept in a week . I have nothing left as we all have been betrayed.. The cut in distributions have turned my life upside down. I have a young family and a senior family member who also invested in League and who is now broke. I am now under a physician care for severe depression over this matter. I see no light at the end of the tunnel These 2 criminals must be brought to justice and soon.
I often wonder after reading the all investor testimonials in the Corporate Backgrounder information brochure just how many carlos are out there?? I invested 1.65 million dollars and 1/2 belonged to my brother whom trusted my judgement whom I now owe about 500 K to over this deal so iam pretty strong guy and will prevail but can certainly sympathise with the carlos of this scam we unwhitingly got involved in.
ATTENTION CARLOS: please contact the BCSC regarding your situation.!!!!!!!!
unless you signed a waiver specifically stating that LISI told you the trade was unsuitable and that you understood the risk associated with concentration.that is 100% illegal by LISI to allow that investment (putting all of your eggs in one basket as they say) Your case should be brought to the BCSC –It is a clear violation for LISI, the dealing representative and the Chief Compliance Officer and Ultimate Designated Person (AG). ( It is a clear violation of the legally required suitability test that the dealer must do.) this is all assuming you never were advised of and never signed a acknowlegement that what you did, you did so knowingly and willfully.
I just want to tell the investor that you did not deserve to have this happen to you and it makes me sad. Not only am I trying to help get your money back if possible, but also work to make sure this doesn’t happen again to other people. I know that this has caused real damage to you, your families and of course your finances.
Allison, thank you for the prompt reply. I was not a Duncan investor and do not mean to be flippant in this comment at all: the cost of a lawyer is a lot less than standing by and having Duncan happen again. It strikes me that a very experienced securities lawyer is needed IN ORDER to have a recovery: hypothetically if there is no value in the Colwood loans but there is some value in the other properties, IGW investors would be better off to prevent the remaining equity from being eroded by fees and interest or pledged to support further Colwood debt. I know you state there is no value in any of the properties but from the information in the Prospectus I cannot categorically come to that conclusion. I do admit freely that you probably know the properties in question better than anyone else on this forum and certainly better than me.
Carey Vienotte is a seasoned well known BC securitys lawyer.He must think there,s money somewhere because in some cases he will take on the league for 30%
All you pay is exspences which could run 10K.(his estimate) what I mean by some cases is he looks at each individule persons case before rejecting or accepting the case
I do not mean that it is not the right way for investors to go. In the beginning I encouraged people to put together a class action, mainly because I think it is probably the only way we will ever get their investor database, or at least be able to advertise widely for investors. As far as I know, the group has chosen a lawyer and are pursuing a suit. I don’t know if I can take the liberty of naming the lawyer, but you can ask Rachelle.
I only mean that, after speaking with the Financial Fraud guys yesterday that I am going to leave that all up to Rachelle. I am better suited and equipped to help find evidence of wrong doing, and either bring it to the attention of the group’s lawyer or to the BCSC. I am local, I have a lot of connections here and mostly retired.
Another important point that got lost is that I think we need to dig and find out if they raised money into deals other than IGW when IGW was under a CTO, and then ‘loaned’ the new money into the REIT, That, IMHO can’t be legal.
Allison, that is an excellent point.Very smart about loans potentially circumventing a CTO. I am in touch with Rachelle as I believe most posters on this forum are and I thought that she and you were the points of contact for everyone. Do you two have an agreed plan yet? I see that Mr. Carey Veinotte was the lawyer recommended by this blog. Is that the direction you are thinking of or are people not ready for that as yet? In no way is this question intended to push, pry or sound ungrateful for all the unpaid work that you two have done to date. Just wondering if there was anything that could be shared on a public forum and if not, feel free to ignore the question as I cannot remove it once posted.
Rachelle is organizing everyone, and I think that they may reach a consensus about moving forward. My job right now is to find anything illegal that they boys have done. I don’t think there will be anything left for investors especially if they pay another lawyer. Rachelle thinks I am impatient, but I put nothing past these guys. Nothing. I really believe that from day one they have known exactly what they were doing and have Plan B ready for execution.
I wonder if anyone has the Master Management Agreement and the Trust Declaration for IGW?
I called the BCSC years ago when Colwood was CTO’d and I saw the funding. I was told that a CTO prevented the sale of any equities but did not prevent the company from entering into non-share based transactions such as debt. Fine line but it appears that League is very good at staying on the right side of the fine line
In the beginning I thought that maybe these two guys were honestly trying to build value for investors. They had lots of hiccups, but kept on going.
Now I believe (after hours of research) that they have known exactly what they were doing since day one, hired the right lawyers and accountants to obfuscate what they are up to, and have absolutely NO compunction when it comes to doing the exact opposite of what they claim in their marketing materials.
Trustee Act BC:
Corporate trustee not to invest trust money in own securities
17.1 Except as provided in section 15.1 (3), a corporation that is a trustee must not invest trust money in its own securities.
Has anyone searched title yet? I mean, it may be petty, but as a developer, how can I raise money and start building my project on someone else’s property/
$35 a pop. I can send you a link to get it done online if you need them for your defence.
The cost is $7.55 each if you can get a realtor to do it for you.
I remember five years ago when I learned about the syndication structure. The thing that everyone talked about the most wasn’t the lift at the end, but the many fees that could be earned along the way to the end of the deal, keeping the deal rolling until the actual lift. I didn’t have a problem with those fees, after all, that was how I was getting paid. (I had different problems.)
Then League sort of took a 45 degree turn, rolling syndicated properties into a REIT, or what they called a REIT. Because they always did their own NAVs, and most people knew what that meant, the properties looked far better to investors than it actually was. I still think that is fraudulent, and if not, it really should be. Anyway, It looked really fishy to me, mostly because I knew about most of the properties they were rolling into IGW. (and o lord I hated that name). I spoke at length with James Speakman a lawyer that has probably more experience in structuring REITS than anyone in Canada. I had a client that had about 200 doors on Vancouver Island, and raising construction money was really tough (2008). We talked about creating a REIT, and the best part was that his properties were largely un-leveraged and cash flowing. It would have been a very nice private REIT, but he never did go through with it. It is a very expensive undertaking.
Anyway, my point I guess is that there is still no value anywhere. I don’t know what sort of magic PWC is supposed to be able to do. They can’t show value where there is none. They can’t make impairments disappear. Maybe they can get those two twits fired. I mean, honestly…managers?
I hope for the best for everyone. I am happy to keep helping where I can.
KPMG has fired League as a customer according to my information.
Likely to avoid the bad press and the suits to follow.
When did that occur? How reliable is your info?
League hasn’t used KPMG as their auditor for years.
Sorry Stuart but the audited statements in the prospectus have letters from KPMG. Am I missing something here?
No. Stuart is just talking out of his hind end again
Just out of curiosity, what is is PwC’s role with respect to the IPO? KPMG is the auditor, why another firm?
KD my best guess and I could be way off base is that the TSX and BCSC rejected the IPO based on something (say the O/S loans), and so PWC is there to help re-structure to attract loan funds to start up the stalled projects and or take Colwood public to raise funds to pay back the loans
I would think alot of the dis-satisfied League investors and the current mortgage holders all want to see Colwood developed, perhaps including the regulators, since the value of the IGW REIT is the potential of Colwood, and getting the loans or earning physical paid interest
Someone here better versed in real estate financing could communicate it better than I, but the League has not given up going public, and is doing something, right or wrong, to save Colwood and the entire co, though I wish they’d just communicate it straight up
I was thinking maybe to do with valuation issues with properties. But who knows…no use in empty speculation.
Jeff,
The unfortunate thing is that investor equity is not required to be saved in order to “save Colwood and the entire co”. Investors may have different interests than the mortgage holders. The best thing for Duncan mortgage holders was to spend a lot of investor equity on renovations. The investors took a total writeoff but the mortgage holders were in better shape. Probably the best thing for mortgage holders is to see Colwood developed. But nothing changes the fact that condos in Colwood only sell for so much money. Having spent so much equity on fees and interest means that more money is needed – but like Duncan, it may not be of any benefit to current investors.
Don’t you think that if there is a plan that benefits investors, the managers would be communicating it? The bottom line is that like it or not, the Prospectus shows how the managers have lost money on property sales in 2010. More money lost in 2011. More money lost in 2012. It is page F-273. That is equity money that is lost in every one of the past three years. The mortgage holders were paid.
I am extremely sorry to say that I have had experiencein real estate financing and what usually happens in a restructuring of a property that has too much debt is that the equity investors are wiped out.
Jeff, I do not want to appear negative, but in some cases the best thing for investors is to prevent any further use of the money. You can look up what condos in Colwood sell for. You can look up what construction costs are in the Victoria area. Right now Colwood does not have a construction loan in place. This means it has to borrow more money on top of the existing debt to do the build-out. The math was done on this blog to show why the IGW loan is underwater.
There does not appear to be anything preventing the managers from having IGW fail, as Duncan failed, and simply having a new LP for their next project. Or going public.
I’m completely disgusted with the responses of the regulator. There is no transparency and I am very unhappy.
When we send things to the BCSC we should also cc the ministers of finance. They are the bosses of these guys.
Very good point Rachelle, and this should be a practiced and adopted for ALL communications.
Identify what the correspondence is and have a consistent CC list of recipients.
At this stage of the game, this cc list should be large.
Something must be done and soon. I invested my entire life savings, including RRSP funds. I put my faith in League based on the documents presented. I have not slept in a week . I have nothing left as we all have been betrayed.. The cut in distributions have turned my life upside down. I have a young family and a senior family member who also invested in League and who is now broke. I am now under a physician care for severe depression over this matter. I see no light at the end of the tunnel These 2 criminals must be brought to justice and soon.
instead of sitting back and hoping someone else does something or letting them dictate to the investors its time to take the game directly to them ,
My (faint) hope is that Jeff is right about the scope of what BCSC was investigating. I also think that having a well developed document to present to them is a good idea. I believe that the unsecured loans contravene the OM. I also believe that if we can show the lack of assets and the need to raise money to pay prior investors we can pursue it with BCSC. I will give it another try tomorrow. I haven’t slept for 3 nights worrying about his. I can’t imagine what investors are going through.
Both A and E are trustees of the REIT and many of their actions have been contrary to the interests of the REIT common unit holders. In my opinion they breached their fiduciary responsibilities and should be held accountable. . See the attached. http://www.lawsonlundell.com/media/news/149_LiabilityandtheTrustee-2009.pdf
There may very well be a civil action here if you are correct. It might make sense for the the actual unitholders here to seek a legal opinion.You have to weigh the likelihood that you will receive any money even if you are succesful though.
we can call them scum bags as they are,we can cry in each others beer as we are,we can get mad at each other as we have done, we can talk to the police(useless my opinion),we can send email after email of documented issues and obvious violations(which I have) to BCSC
and the bottom line is we are no closer to a solution nor getting a dime returned.
They have spent SEVERAL million dollars OF IGW REIT money on trying to go public and have gotten nowhere.Who knows what the rediculous PWC Audit will do for anyone??
IF BCSC cant find fault then how do we exspect to?
if you want to generate publicity then picket his house, all the neigbours will see and the press and news will come sniffing around to see whats going on
Paul,
The OSC was aware of First Leaside for years. They only charged the principles with fraud after the whole house of cards collapsed. if BCSC is anything like OSC then You can’t be sure what they will end up doing. Jeff has an excellent question. Did you call the BCSC Jeff?
Yes, I made two written complaints, however that was a year and half ago, and looking back the complaints were not well written, or documented etc, and it went nowhere, I’d call them a typical I’m not getting paid type complaints
I know so so much more about the League today and I am still learning – As an early investor I think I could make a much better documented presentation regarding the League not following it’s OM and and Marketing, but I’m also far from retired, and I have time constraints, I’ve recently dipped my toe into politics representing my industry in trade delegations and policy initiatives at both the City and Provincial level and it’s a humungous consumption of time, if someone else could take a rational focused lead here, I’d love to help document and cheerlead
so in the end the BCSC deal is a lot of nothing. 250K to these two is a slap on the wrist
means nothing at all.changes nothing.If BCSC does not see fraud so far then we are sunk
on that theory because BCSC has had a INDEPTH look at League and Iam certain they would have laid charges or should I say accusation of fraud
Paul – Yes & No – The mandate of the complaint they looked at may have been very small – If investors are just calling BSSC and complaining about not getting distro I highly doubt they are looking that closely, but if one presents a case regarding the OM, and backs it up with written material, might be a different story – Same thing on this website, we can all alledge lots of things, we may even be correct, but we have to back it up
The question of the day is, if Adam and Manny have been found guilty of not being transparant about the investment itself, can anyone now sue for their investment back, at least between 2010 and 2013 based on the BSSC findings?
BCSC has been looking at these guys for way over a year.I was contacted by them well over a year ago.They know exactly who gant and arruda are.they know the operation and I can say with certainty after what has transpired they could not find enough wrong doing within securitys law to do anything other than what they did
its bullshit and BCSC is being a typical lazy ass government type run organization
If they had any balls at all they would charge them
Thanks Allison for bringing this forward. Should we be contacting Teresa Banks as well?
From BCSC website today…
2013/73
October 1, 2013
B.C. dealer admits it did not disclose its relationship to securities it was recommending
Vancouver – In a settlement agreement with the British Columbia Securities Commission, League Investment Services Inc. (LISI), a B.C. corporation registered in all provinces as an exempt market dealer, admitted that while promoting the sale of IGW Real Estate Investment Trust (IGW REIT) securities it did not disclose its relationship or connection to IGW REIT.
The agreement states that between September 2010 and June 2012, LISI promoted the sale of IGW REIT securities through its website, brochures, and its Blue Book of Real Estate Syndication. Adam Gant and Emanual Arruda, both of whom are B.C. residents, own 100% of LISI through their family trusts. They are also its officers and sole directors – Gant is LISI’s Ultimate Designated Person, and Arruda is in charge of LISI’s investor relations activities.
IGW REIT is a real estate investment trust that owns commercial properties in Ontario, Manitoba, Saskatchewan and British Columbia. IGW REIT has approximately 2,200 investors, who as of June 19, 2013 had invested approximately $290 million. Gant and Arruda are trustees of IGW REIT, and Gant is the President of IGW REIT.
IGW REIT is managed by League Assets Corporation (LAC), which earns management fees based on the sale of IGW REIT securities by LISI. In 2010, IGW REIT paid management fees of $7.8 million to LAC. Gant and Arruda, through their family trusts, also own 100% of LAC and are its officers and sole directors – Gant is CEO, and Arruda is President and Co-Chairman.
In the settlement agreement, Gant and Arruda acknowledged that LISI, by recommending an investment in IGW REIT securities without disclosing its relationship or connection to IGW REIT and LAC in the same medium of communication, contravened securities laws that prohibit a registered firm from recommending a security of a related or connected issuer.
For this misconduct, Gant and Arruda have agreed to pay to the commission $150,000 and $100,000, respectively. They have also agreed to pass a securities course for exempt market dealer representatives, acceptable to the Executive Director, within six months from the date of the settlement agreement. Additionally, LISI must disclose its relationship with IGW REIT in its marketing materials, to the satisfaction of the Executive Director.
The B.C. Securities Commission is the independent provincial government agency responsible for regulating trading in securities within the province. You may view the settlement agreement on our website http://www.bcsc.bc.ca by typing Adam Gant, Emanuel Arruda, League Investment Services Inc., or 2013 BCSECCOM 411 in the search box. Information regarding disciplinary proceedings can be found in the Enforcement section of the BCSC website.
Please visit the Canadian Securities Administrators’ Disciplined Persons List for information relating to persons disciplined by provincial securities regulators, the Investment Industry Regulatory Organization of Canada (IIROC) and the Mutual Fund Dealers Association (MFDA).
For media inquiries, contact Richard Gilhooley, media relations, 604-899-6713. For public inquiries, call 604-899-6854 or 1-800-373-6393 (toll free).
Link to settlement…
http://www.bcsc.bc.ca/comdoc.nsf/comdoc.nsf/webpolicies/082ACB2DEB53169388257BF7006E5BFE?OpenDocument
A whole lot of I told you so here. An administrative action with an administrative penalty. The BCSC doesn’t get involved with poor investment choices and badly run companies.
So, Federal Financial Fraud of RCMP said the same thing. As long as BCSC is investigating, they cannot do anything. I called my contact at BCSC, and urged them to put a CTO and lay fraud charges. The chief person there is a lawyer by the name of Teresa Banks.
They once hired an American CEO, who left in short order after seeing the operation.
They are trying to appear as though it’s business as usual. They raised $150,000 last week.
Are you looking for an exciting career as an accountant in the Real Estate Investment Trust industry? League Financial Partners is currently recruiting for the following positions!
•Chief Accounting Officer – Victoria
•Chief Financial Officer: Development – Victoria
•Financial Reporting Accountant – Victoria
•Manager Internal Controls – Victoria
•Senior Controller – Calgary
This is not a joke, by the way. This is on their website as I type. Am I alone in finding this worrisome? Even more disturbing to me is that they want someone with a Certified Accountant (CA) designation for the two “Chief” positions. Umm, don’t you mean “Chartered” Accountant designation? Or Cerified “Management” Accountant (CMA)? Or Certified “General” Accountant (CGA)? Also, for the Chief Accounting Officer position, an undergraduate degree in business or commerce is “preferred”. Really? Preferred???
John Kelly is still listed as the Chief Accounting Officer on LinkedIn and League’s website, but then League is also currently recruiting for:
•Web Designer/Developer – Vancouver
AJ you said quote:
Saanich police say to go to RCMP, but they don’t hold out much hope of anyone seeing anything back.
How could the police say such a thing when those idiots have not a clue about league yet nor have they done a investigation? seems like a pretty bold statement based on them not doing any DD as we talk
They said that if BCSC has been involved, it will automatically be a civil matter. He did suggest that if there is any reason to investigate them for other things, like arson for instance, they may be able to do something.
they are well aware of League. They also suggested getting in touch with Farmer’s construction. I will do that later today.
And my contact isn’t an idiot.
Sgt. Andrew Cowan is lead investigator (my contact says he is brilliant) for Financial Crimes here in Victoria. His cell is 250.213.5442.
Saanich police say to go to RCMP, but they don’t hold out much hope of anyone seeing anything back.
This is a serious indictment of Canadian Securities regulators and laws.
I wonder if there is a legal angle where if one can prove that if the family trust was set up to with the full intention to defraud investors or at least to funnel ill gotten gain,s if that thrust can then be sued or better yet declared invalid? It will also be a travistey of justise if league declares BK and those two fools are allowed to run it and receive fees and wages.
Paul,
I know what you are talking about, it is the Fraudulent Conveyances Act. Wish I could tell you if it applies but I don’t know.
its called a fraudulent conveance, and can cause the trust to null and void. They have had very good advice on the set up of these trusts presumably inan offshore jurisdication. Their CFO is an ex-banker working for Cooutss etc. in tax -haven jusridictions of gtuensey and jersey. See their website.
Jeff,
When you say:
“There will also be very little or no wealth back if the BC Sec or RCMP investigate, and or lawsuits are filed because that could delay whatever plan that is forthcoming, that is the catch 22 with all this”
There appears to be a thought in your statement that the League managers have a plan for recovering lost investor equity that a lawsuit would prevent.
Typically what happens is that a civil suit is filed and a Monitor is appointed by the Court. The Monitor sells the assets or operates the entities as a going concern, depending on what the Court thinks will bring the highest value to stakeholders. Civil lawsuits usually finish faster than Securities Commission processes. If there is any equity value in IGW after mortgages are paid, it may be best to extract it quickly in a quick Receivership rather than allowing more fees to be taken out.. The profssional fees being incurred now in the “go-public” effort are unlikely to be cheaper than a Court-approved sale process. Remember that even if they go public that doesn’t mean any new investors will be attracted to it and they still need to pay their mortgages and trade payables.
MICK
I totally concour.The only way we may see any money as things stand today is for those fools to quit spending MILLIONS on rediculous prospectus,s and PWC internal audits.Organize the sale of all existing propertys,disallowing their rediculous fees and liquidating in full.
Their assets are in trusts. This is not the US. In Canada Adam Gant and Manny Arruda can declare bankruptcy, keep their RRSPs and receive income from trusts managed by others (a friend perhaps or Adam’s wife). Essentially commercial crimes go without personal consequences in Canada. Yes, they may be ordered to pay a fine, but won’t if they have no assets. They may be unable to operate as a director of a publicly traded firm or get a cease trade order. WoppieDoo. They have your money, mainly legally by huge fees, and you have lost it all. Welcome to Canada, true north strong and free !
Manny might go back to his native Brazil and live like a king. Adam has a family and can live off the trust interest in style for decades. Brilliant scheme !
Ok…then where is it? I guess they had to pay their minions, their lawyers, accountants etc., but none of that was for investors benefit. I am being a bit rhetorical, I guess, but still…where is it?
see above reply.Its pretty much where the money went.Ithink you know that we are arguing over nothing.
Some of the money is retreveable if the propertys were sold off and PAR shares sold but I doubt we would se a penny from Colwood and Duncan or return of fees etc
I am going to the police today and get their take on what investors must do in order to attach the personal assets. I believe they are proceeds of crime. I also believe they have no right to them; any of them. They started with nothing; they should end up with nothing.
Paul – you’re not arguing, it’s a blog, a difference of opinion is healthy, but I agree with you, unless the League comes up with a plan that see’s all or most of the IGW REIT funds paid back unfort there is no or very little wealth left
There will also be very little or no wealth back if the BC Sec or RCMP investigate, and or lawsuits are filed because that could delay whatever plan that is forthcoming, that is the catch 22 with all this
For those who remain un-convinced fraud or a crime is involved, a plan of action would be to press your league contact regarding how and when these loans will be paid back, I do think it’s time to make them aware that a whole bunch of us are very unhappy bout those loans and we are looking at potential legal ramification(s) concerning the legality of those loans
Remember Stuart didn’t want to touch my question(s), that speaks volumes……
Lets get real.they dont have 300 million free at all.There was 290-300 invested.we know close to 100 mill was wasted on Colwood,Duncan and Failed ontario condos convertion plus some other mcs stuff. They got 50 million in fees.There are many propertys that the balance is invested in plus about 22 million or less in PAR shares so as much as I hate these scum bags I can NOT agree that :THEY” got 300 or have 300M of our money
This is the ‘vernacular’, what most people understand XXXX to mean. I contend that 1. They always had to raise new money to make the distros because they weren’t earning from the properties. In fact, the cost to carry the properties and their weird NAV outpaced the rental income. The fact became obvious when the distros ceased. But they still raised money.
No one but they benefited. They now have almost $300M (free).
Hey stuart?? whats your take on this?? looks like the gal,s are right and your wrong?
Quote:
I have a document in my possession that shows that as early as 2008 GenesisLand had written a report that stated that because League was not turning a profit on the buildings they were using new money to pay for interest and distributions on old money.
So that’s why I say they are a XXXXX
I will add to my own post.Does a PONZI scheme not also involve where there is no investment and the leaders of the pack(so to speak) actually pocket the money for personal gain? I dont see this in the league other than hidden fees? they just made absoulutly atrocious ill thought out and somewhat panic loans to private projects being Colwood and Duncan for the large part using investor money
A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation that pays returns to its investors from their own money or the money paid by subsequent investors, rather than from profit earned by the individual or organization running the operation. The Ponzi scheme usually entices new investors by offering higher returns than other investments, in the form of short-term returns that are either abnormally high or unusually consistent. Perpetuation of the high returns requires an ever-increasing flow of money from new investors to keep the scheme going.[1]
The scheme is named after Charles Ponzi,[2] who became notorious for using the technique in 1920.[3] Ponzi did not invent the scheme (for example, Charles Dickens’ 1844 novel Martin Chuzzlewit and 1857 novel Little Dorrit each described such a scheme),[4] but his operation took in so much money that it was the first to become known throughout the United States. Ponzi’s original scheme was based on the arbitrage of international reply coupons for postage stamps; however, he soon diverted investors’ money to make payments to earlier investors and himself.
after all its no skin off their nose if the investors lose it all
Finally. It will be absolutely obscene if they can file Chapter 11, keep taking fees, and then walk away from the whole mess.
you know the only way they are going to feel the pain of what they have done to certain investors is for investors to be able to attach their personal assets, let them go months without getting paid and see what it is like
First let’s address my contention that League is a Ponzi. I was the one that used that term and I’m quite happy to defend it. When I first looked into League they were offering 14% interest, I saw their ads online and clicked and then they sent me a Blue Book. I read the Blue Book and my immediate reaction was “What the hell is this crap?” It was written too simply, it contained too few facts/details, and was 50% credo which to my mind was a red flag. The last person you should trust is the one who talks about how trustworthy they are. (Source: Life) Then I looked up the IGW REIT on the BCSC website and found the cease trade orders.
Then a year or so later, I read something about them hiring Altus Heyar and then just a couple months later they decided to use Colliers instead. The logical conclusion to me was that Altus did not return the generous valuations League was expecting and so they went back to Colliers. According to AG Altus was unable to do the additional NAV calculations and that’s why they went back to Colliers. This seems to be a huge oversight if so because why would you make a huge press announcement and then reverse yourself because you made such a novice mistake?
Mostly it was the 14% interest rates that alerted me as being unsustainable. Malls pay out about 7% to 8%. Over time the failure of the REIT would be inevitable unless someone had a great record of adding value. Now Skyline runs student housing which yields more. I haven’t looked at their financials in any depth so I don’t have any conclusions.
The Judge in my case was confined to the very narrow Ponzi definition in the case R v Mazzucco. Basically as long as someone buys some assets with the money it isn’t a Ponzi. In fact many Ponzi schemers do start out buying the assets but discover that the rate of return promised is impossible and so they begin using new money to pay for old. That in my mind is the defining characteristic of Ponzi schemes.
I have a document in my possession that shows that as early as 2008 GenesisLand had written a report that stated that because League was not turning a profit on the buildings they were using new money to pay for interest and distributions on old money.
So that’s why I say they are a Ponzi.
Will TSX shut the door on League before it runs out of cash, thus forcing it to declare bankruptcy earlier?
Jeremy,
Listing on the TSX does not mean new money will come in. There is no underwriter for their Prospectus. So all going public will accomplish is provide possible new investors a way to buy shares and old investors a way to sell shares (if anyone wants to buy them). It is not a refinancing. They need to refinance the TCC mortgage on Duncan for $17 million by January or face foreclosure as they got a court extension for six months in July. See the article in Cowichan News for more info. They have trade payables on Colwood as well as first and second secured mortgages to pay. For their 2012 property sales it states in the Prospectus that substantially all of the proceeds went to pay mortgages (ie no return of equity to investors). All of this is public information. What I do not know is whether there is any equity left in any of their remaining properties or whether all of those are also mortgaged up the same way the properties sold in 2011 and 2012 were.
Whoa, whoa there. That’s a lot of speculation on your part.
First of all, I received their email explaining the change in appraisers was that Colliers was 10% cheaper, and would put the unit value on their letterhead. Altus wouldn’t. second… you forget that equity investors are a small part of the whole value pie. It may take only 30% equity to buy a property. So if a property costs $1mil, $333,000 is the equity investor’s “downpayment” the rest is bank money, just like with a house. [don’t quote me on the math, just making a point here]. So the $666,000 in properties earning 8 -10% net cash flow could easily pay a single slice of investors 14%. If we’re talking IPUnits, some were as little as 4%. So it’s totally doable. I may not have the math right, but I know my logic is.
Hello Everyone,
I can finally comment on here now. I’m happy to be able to answer questions if required.
How long before League will stop trying to go public (and file for bankruptcy)?
Last year, they burned through $62 million in losses, they had 46 million in assets left. That’s a burn rate of about 5 million per month. They’ve gone into foreclosure on 3 properties, Romspen sued them and got a $1.5 million judgement. I’d say around October depending how many new investors they can get to keep the wolves from the door.
The reason they wanted to “Go Public” was NOT because it was good for investors. On page 30 of the Prospectus on Sedar there is the Oriana transaction where Oriana issues millions of shares, buys White Elephant Colwood for $161 million and becomes League Urban Ventures. Going Public probably absolved AG and EA of liability and fiduciary responsibility. They are after all not responsible for the value the stock market would attribute to your shares.
Can I comment from Twitter?
Here is the question everyone needs to ask: how do two guys with no education or experience acquire $300M that is essentially free money in less than 6 years? What would you do if you were just 30 years old and had $150,000,000?
No better place to try this than Canada it would appear
I might have the website.
Check your email
AJ u were saying you have almost all of leagues ads and brochures? Have you got the original where they promised 10-11-12-13-14% over 5 years. it was in august/sept area of 2006
If you can show that you got the OM after you put your money in, that is critical
I have put money in since 2006 and last in early 2011 and have never to this day Have I been offered,shown,given or asked if I have read a OM .They claim as a accredited investor its not required.??
I think the BCSC is hugely to blame.They issue the EMD licences+ Its there job to patrol and investigate these outfits to make sure there always in full compliance and they dont.its just wrong on their part for that
They contend that they do all they can within the limits of their mandate…and by posting the many cease trade orders and the latest investigation, and their ‘beware of fraud’ ads on TV. We need one strong, centralized securities agency that is accountable to the public. We also need a criminal fraud division in the RCMP that does not get confused by big numbers.
Give me a politician who will stand for this.
I dont like politicians.A guy once told me that they should serve two terms
one as a MP for 4 years and then one 4 year jail term as a convict
It’s time to put their feet to the fire. Do what you get paid handsomely to do. Work for the people.
I think I will make a trip to Saanich police tomorrow. I have some good contacts there, and Redbrick is just a couple of blocks down the street.
well I sure hate to see us go BK.Iam willing to wait a couple years if I knew I would get my money back but if we do go BK those two cocksuckers better burn just as bad or worse
Some key Item questions I just cant seem to get figured out is 1) what propertys are in IGW (our names) which ones do we actually own(sort of)?
2)what are the real values of these propertys? 3)what are the Mortgage amounts?
4) what are the NET rents from these propertys 5) what are the mortgage payments?
6)Next what were/are the actual loan values excluding any phoney accrued interest
to Colwood and Duncan LP,s
7) what was the actual cost of the approximately 4.4 million shares spent on PAR.UN
8) how much distribution money do we get from the shares Gross and NET per month
9) how much money has been lost in the last two years regarding sold propertys and the failed condo convertion in ontario
10) what has been the NET income from new money in the last year
If I knew all this it would give a person a pretty good picture of where the Three hundred million of IGW investors money is at (or is not at)
What do u think the 501 page prosectus has cost us for the public offering???
I figure in the 2-3 million range?
When do you speculate League will stop trying to go public (and file for bankruptcy)? When they run out of cash (to pay staff, PwC, or creditors)? When a creditor forces them into receivership? How long before that happens?
Pretty sure we all understand where you’re coming from Paul. Everyone wants this to work out, doesn’t know what to do and is hoping for the best. I don’t understand what investor rights are, or there is anything to be done, but I got in touch with Rachelle. She has a good handle on the facts.
Mick says:I agree with your point that contributors on this forum should not bicker amongst themselves or make personal attacks. It does nothing but turn people off.
Mick Iam enrolled in anger management so working on it(haha)
This is a huge learning curve for most of us. I don’t think anybody realized the complexities. I think that the discourse is very productive, but I tend to agree also that tempers have flared (and tempurs, too) but understandably so. It is outrageous that the thing has gotten so huge. It is outrageous that securities haven’t tried to stop it all. It is outrageous that these two kids have taken money from people who do not fit the KYC rules. It is outrageous that if they file chapter 11, they can continue to collect their fees.
Where is the money?
Here is my main take away: They have almost $300,000,000 of free, unaccounted for money. How does that happen?
Jeff, you are saying almost the same thing as AJ and Paul. Yes the inter company loans are the problem as they accrue a lot of interest and are on the balance sheet as Assets. For Colwood to repay those loans, the property has to first borrow more money for construction. The cost to construct plus the cost of the existing first and second mortgages are more than the profit margin for condominiums in that area. That is why AJ is saying There is no money, as there is no way for Colwood to repay the unsecured loan from IGW using profits. It is hard to go through all the other IGW properties as it is not disclosed in the format of Asset, Liability and net equity in one location.
However, in 2011 and 2012 the sales of properties were quoted in the Prospectus as being losses on a net basis. This means that there was no profit from those to fund the operations of the REIT.
It is not possible in my view to say that there are no assets at all, but once you back out the loans to Colwood it certainly erodes the majority. Given the history of property sales at a net loss, which is in the Prospectus and outlined in simplified form at Landlord Rescue, it stands to reason that AJ and others are suggesting that the remaining properties may also be mortgaged to the point where there is negative equity.
I agree with your point that contributors on this forum should not bicker amongst themselves or make personal attacks. It does nothing but turn people off.
To Kam
talked to league this morning regarding ipu redemption
don’t hold your breath
They told me this verbally not in print. I had sent an e-mail inquiring about the wait list on IPU payout, or even if anyone was even getting paid.
Did anyone actually seek any legal advice? I had someone contact me from League to convert my retraction to shares of new company. I said no, but did ask as to what happens if they can’t go public? i was point blank told that they would file for chapter 11.
I am working on it.
Do you remember who you spoke with, and did they say this verbally or in print?
Sorry AJ, I have to disagree with you, you should be able to see hard assets in the original 5 properties the IGW REIT – Next It is a REIT managers job to leverage, mortgage, pay interest, legal, and accounting, and they should expect to earn fee’s
Actually if the distro had not stopped and those loans were earning interest, and had been paid back, none of all the above would be an issue
That’s the issue, investments not earning interest that’s accrued, or may have to be written off, or may never be paid back, not fee’s and leverage
If PWC comes in and part of the deal is they restructure things which allows the REIT to attract loan monies for the IGW REIT to be paid back (in full), then PWC fee’s are worth every penny, because I assume the TSX and BC Sec will allow the listing to go through
I will agree with you however, if they are just coming in to put lipstick on a pig, and the plan cannot attract funds for the projects which owe the REIT loans, yes it’s a huge waste of our money, to me it’s all about those loans, every issue is tied to those loans
The main reason for AG to try to combine IGW and Colwood then go public is to avoid paying money back to investors, not to make IGW run better. A badly run company is a badly run company doesn’t matter private or public. All other reasons are secondary. AG you slimy SOB you deserve to go to hell in after life.
Who gets paid if they go bankrupt?
My contention is that there never were any hard assets. They used your money for down payments, leveraged the titles to get more money, took outrageous fees for every step, and then did nothing but pay huge interest rates, legal fees, and accounting fees. The only ‘work’ that I can see AG ever has done is dreaming up new ways to obfuscate what was actually going on.
Now they are going to pay PWC an outrageous amount of (your) money to tell OSC what a blind person can already see: there are no underlying assets.
And, they keep raising money into the whole thing.
lets not start confusing the 3 or 4 LP ventures that may have made money for the 300+ Million reit and IPU units that have lost and stand to loose millions more.Too seperate deals in my world
But, those LPs were rolled into the REIT as assets. My question is, if the assets was disposed of at a loss, how was it an asset? And, how can they continue to show things as assets when they are underwater?
By AG’s accounting tricks the latest Mar.31 financial statements for IGW has about 41 millions as equity for unit holders. There is about 106 millions as loans receivable from related parties which we all know is not likely to be recoverable. That means AG pissed away 65 millions of our money. AG I know you read this blog – where is our intergenerational wealth?
to AJ
I don’t know what that means
Stuey says we are old ‘chums’.
To AJ and stuart little the way you two argue with each other you would think that your married
To legitimate investors complaining gets you nowhere if you ever want to see any money returned to you the time to take action is now contact me samy44483@gmail.com
Hardly. I think chum is bait they throw to the sharks.
Yes, and they just ‘flipped’ Londondale for a loss. Along with several other properties.
I know that it is possible to make 8 – 9% return. Unfortunately, there is a lot of work involved to create that lift. The market is almost back to normal now, and they are still taking losses.
THIS ONE REALLY GALLS ME:
Is it ‘fraud’ if the League takes in an investment and issues an OM, a Blue Book, Promotional material promising transparency, and then loans and invests in real estate projects also owned by the same set of trustees, and also takes mgt fee’s and commissions to loaning funds to themselves?
AND as it turns out NO REASONABLE way of paying the interest due? So how was this Investment ever going to be able to produce 8-9% monthly distributions ? never mind ever get paid period? Same deal in DUNCAN only smaller scale
should read 9% annual paid monthly my bad they need a edit button on this web site
Leave for a couple of weeks and all h$$l breaks loose!
Look I am not defending League as I am an investor as well, but it is possible to return 8-9%+ in real estate. The original League plan and the one that I bought into was that League would use low money down deals to purchase and flip commercial properties. If you put 5% down and the property goes up in price by 5% then you doubled your investment. The actual income from the properties is not where you make money.
I disagree and thats not what league was all about when I joined. Look at SKYLINE REIT which was recomended and iam now looking into.They buy propertys and lease them out and pay 9%.they have been in business longer than the league and have never missed a distribution.
Can you let us know which LP you were in?
This page shows that all of their projects have made money. What is the discrepancy between those numbers and the actual disposition numbers?
sorry:
http://leagueinvestment.ca/investments/previous-opportunities
I’ve been racking my brain trying to figure out who Stuey could be…There is a guy that had (has) a position in Cityzen, Londondale and a couple of other deals. Probably the only person on the planet that actually hates me. hmmmm. Stuey, got anything to say to that? You still hold those positions?
Don’t dislike you at all AJ, as a matter of fact we were chums for a few years. What I dislike are people who make accusations without the evidence to back it up. I have been in that some boat myself and it really irks me.
exactly what accusations? R U referring to?
well it starting to resemble a ponzi type scheme as things are turning out and I feel they defrauded me. What I was verbally told,what the brochures promised was written by them and its all turning out not to be so? what do u call that? Deception which in my mind= Fraud.They and there people lie also. I asked if the distribution was being honoured sept 30 on about sept 15 and they said yes as We forsee no problems.
see letter dated sept 19
I agree 100% with Paul – I have alway’s defended the League per AJ’s and Rachelle’s accusation that it was designed as a Ponzi scheme, but the moment old investors can only be paid out by bringing in new one’s, it began to resemble one, IMO that is a defense AJ and Rachelle should use
Which bring me back to the question I asked Stuart a couple of day’s ago – Is it ‘fraud’ if the League takes in an investment, and issues an OM, a Blue Book, Promotional material promising a 90 day redemption and then years later does not deliver?
Is it ‘fraud’ if the League takes in an investment, and issues an OM, a Blue Book, Promotional material promising to only invest in real estate that offers a 8-10% cash return and does not pose a forseeable risk to capitol and instead of buying existing established real estate, either loans the money unsecured or buys land to develop ground up?
Is it ‘fraud’ if the League takes in an investment and issues an OM, a Blue Book, Promotional material promising transparency, and then loans and invests in real estate projects also owned by the same set of trustees, and also takes mgt fee’s and commissions to loaning funds to themselves?
If the answer is no, fine, then I can agree at this time I cannot see any fraud, it’s just a case of mis-management and really awful investment(s)
Yes. Like it or not, everyone is in the Colwood deal now.
O gee, I don’t know…due diligence maybe? Do it don’t do it; no skin off my nose.
Here are the physical addresses for the land assembly, if anyone wants to search title:
1917, 1913, 1911, 1905, 1889 Sooke Rd.
What makes you assume that they do not hold title to the land?
I never assume anything. Hey, thought you said that was your last post?
Final comment was on your credibility and background. That has been beaten to death and people can draw their own conclusions.
If you have no evidence whatsoever that League doesn’t hold title to the properties why would you suggest that people spend money on title searches?
I assume the title search would be 1) see who,s name or names its in and 2) see how many liens are against the property,s??? would be my assumption
Sure Paul but at $35 a pop what does it do other than perhaps satisfy some curiosity? The people here invested in IGW. IGW made unsecured loans to Colwood LP. The Colwood LP then went and purchased properties. Now even if some of the Colwood LP properties had liens against them at the time the investor made their investment in IGW I still don’t see a cause of action. The OMs were usually pretty tight and covered off all of the potential risk factors.
Now as I said here several years ago, I believe that there was a period of time where at least one of the OMs in circulation stated that 3rd party loans would be secured and it is possible that some of the loans were not secured at that time. That is probably a better angle to argue misrepresentation if that was indeed the case.
Stuart, why don’t you answer Jeff Cohen? He asked you a direct question. No investor cares about your squabbling with AJ over things that have nothing to do with this topic. If you are connected to League then you are doing a good job in derailing the discussion. If you are an investor then answer the question. If people relied on League documents to invest and league changed the investment philosophy to take on more risk in related companies where they took more fees to benefit themselves: if it isn’t fraud what is it?
http://apps.finra.org/meters/2/riskmeter.aspx??utm_source=Microsoft&utm_medium=MSN%20Games%20AND%20Age%2050+%20AND%20BT%20Active%20Traders_CPM&utm_term=160X600&utm_content=Risk&utm_campaign=FINRAIPC2013
I know this is US, but it is still interesting.
Someone just invested $150,000.00
to stuart liitle if you are not gant then are you an investor?
To paul reach me at samy44483@gmail.com
You left out this one, Stuey…or Uncle Norbert as the case might be:
http://allisonbarber.wix.com/perfectpitch
As I have said all along, if you ever bothered to read, I have been doing this for over 25 years. No one has ever lost a dime in one of my deals. I don’t have to lie and make up my background to raise money.
First Leaside, if you bothered to read about them, are structured almost exactly as League is structured. Gant, stop trying. I have nothing to hide. Both of the companies I mention on my Twitter feeds are being investigated by the FBI. so give up, sonny boy.
So nobody lost money in Bakken or Creekside?
Nope. Only I lost money
“No one has ever lost a dime” – expect you!
“I don’t have to lie about my background” – your profile states that you are an actor – just like Manny. You aren’t his ex are you? http://voice123.com/allisonbarber
stuart? R U sir really playing with a full deck? enough already.U are not helping the cause here in any way
Want to hear me sing, too? This was when I was 16. What were you doing when you were 16 stuey? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVQr3Pliv_g
Thank you, Paul. If people want to dig around in my background, it’s ok with me. But this twit is really diverting the attention from where it should be IMHO.
I am old enough to be Manny’s mother, not his ex.
Do you think Adam or Manny have ever taken a loss on one of their deals?
You are right about one thing AJ in that this is all one big distraction. Final comment on this matter that I am going to make is beware of a wolf in sheep’s clothing. When someone tries to become your friend, share in your pain and anxiety and then offer you one of their own safe” nvestments, it is time to go running.
1. YOU found my unpublished websites and posted them here.
2. No investment is without risk.
3. I am (arms length) involved in ONE deal right now.
4. I have not asked one living soul in here to be my friend; like it or not, there is nothing in this for me. Nothing.
the only people here that match the warning discription ar G and Mini G
http://business.financialpost.com/2013/02/22/first-leaside-victims-fight-for-lost-millions-but-hopes-are-dim/
And what does First Leaside have to do with League? Nobody is stating that there are not bad companies or criminals running them. All that you are being asked is to provide anything to back up your claims that Gant and Arruda have defrauded investors.
Stuart – Fair enough – Great question
1. If you attract investors, say in 2006, on basis of a written document, Blue Book, and or documents which state that the REIT will only invest in real estate that has a 8-10% annual cash return and or does not pose a forseeable risk to investors, and instead you loan money out to investments that do not provide any cash return and or end up being a huge risk, is that fraud?
2. If you attract investors, say in 2007, on the basis of the same written documents, which state there is a firm 90 day redemption, but when you go to redeem in June 2012 you are then told it is 3 year wait, is that fraud?
3. If you attract investors, say in 2008, on the basis of the same written documents, and end up loaning funds for real estate investments to co’s also owned by the same trustees have your interests as a unit holder in the REIT been compromised, is is fraud?
I am not alledging that any of the above is fraud, but neverthelesss I am asking the same hard question(s) you are asking of AJ,if it is not fraud, what is it?
Thx
The point is, their OMs cover their backsides. You have to put a case together showing what you relied upon to make your investment decision. If you relied upon magazine articles, or their website, or the sales person, you have to be able to prove that. I have electronic copies of articles where they claim to have university degrees, claim to have years and years of experience, etc. You have to show the authorities that they were blatant lies. I also managed to get their old websites, and some interesting things from Manny’s Facebook. I have the credo, the meaning of the ‘coat of arms’; things they took off of their website last July when distros ceased. I am not saying that a court or a jury or even the police will say it is fraud, but we will never know if we don’t try.
I still think the only assets are their personal assets. Only the authorities can act on their personal assets.
Stuart – To be clear, my question(s) supporting documents are not websites, magazine articles, Facebook, or sale(s)people, it is based on written documentation (promotional) supplied by the league to would be investors, blue books, OM’s, manuals, etc
Thx
Are you going to act ‘professionally’ and wait around for the PWC report? Here’s what that looks like:
wo senior executives from investment firm First Leaside Wealth Management Inc. defrauded investors of almost $19-million in 2011 and cannot now argue they had to raise the money to save the business from collapse, an Ontario Securities Commission hearing was told Wednesday.
In closing statements Wednesday in the case involving First Leaside founder David Phillips and senior salesman John Wilson, OSC lawyer Yvonne Chisholm said the men wrongly sold investment units in First Leaside funds without telling investors about an accountant’s report by Grant Thornton Ltd. that raised questions about the firm’s viability.
She said investors testified during the hearing in June that were upset and “horrified” when they finally saw the report after First Leaside had been shut down by the OSC. Some said they likely would not have invested if they had seen the findings at the time.
“The evidence that you have heard in this case clearly establishes that David Phillips and John Wilson acted dishonestly and in so doing they deprived investors of $18.6-million in just 10 short weeks,” Ms. Chisholm told the OSC hearing panel.
I wonder if the investors in this acted ‘professionally’?
http://business.financialpost.com/2013/07/22/first-leaside-shutdown-investors-slim-returns/
We live in a culture where some people are more offended by swear words than by famine, warfare and the destruction of the environment…and scams.
AJ you are 100% correct.
people you need to quit hiding here, start listing your real name and real contact info and how much your owed.I have as I have noting to hide.lets get a idea of how bad people are effected here.If your owed like 5 or 10K then Dont waste your time as thats peanuts for the monkeys as the saying goes.
,
to wayne and paul,I agree with both of you on your comments
I do not believe league will ever go public
they have monthly income yet do not respect the unitholders my ipu units have matured and I have as of now not been repaid to me that is a breach of contract but I am not a lawyer
I would seriously like to explore our options as to what can be done
if you can e mail me direct at samy44483@gmail .com to discuss this further and let me know of any recommendations
this could drag on forever
Iam at the point where I Feel the waynes and CM, SM etc and the lot(everyone) need to post real names like me and list how much they lost and list contact info so we can all get on the same page and form a strong alliance. Iam of the opinion there will be no public offering and if allowed League will continue as is.These guys have made millions(50+) off us and can live very well if things stay as is.They will continue to sell non core propertys,take their fees and use the balance of that money to pay debt along with the income earned from proportys. Remember the par.un units alone bring in 250K per month+there still selling worthless promisary notes etc.They also get some income from the harris group etc
The lawsuits there incuring will take years to sort out and with them no longer paying the investors a thin dime I believe they can run the league for a long time as is.
Iam open to any and all non emotional input one way or the other?
AJ as I have previously offered
I personally have no evidence of fraud
If you have 5 to6 years of evidence of fraud I will come to Victoria and go with you to the authorities
I know I was misled when I originally invested as to what my money would be used for but this is more of a civil case for me
had I wanted to invest in colwood I would have done so but I chose to invest in the reit
To stuart little if you really are adam gant time for you to come clean and admit it, your response to this will speak volumes
I will be getting in touch with Rachel to see if she can be helpful
Read my posts over the past 5 years. It is pretty clear I am not Gant or anyone else associated with League. AJ has nothing as she has never been an investor in League. According to her twitter feed and her website http://allisonbarber.wix.com/ajmb-consulting#!current-projects, she raises money for investments. You can judge for yourself why someone would constantly go around and bash competitive investments and claim that they want to help others.
Stuart you say AJ has nothing? seems odd for u to say that? how would you know this? and how would she have been able over the last almost 3 years been able to warn people about how bad and risky league really was if she really does have nothing as you like to claim. I on the contrary wish I would have been aware of this site and her posting 2 years ago and I would not have put my last 250K into the league
Why because for years she has been posting on her twitter feed and blogs and that League and a many other investment companies are run by criminals and fraudsters. She has been asked countless times for any evidence to back her claims and she has not provided one bit. Since she is now being sued for defamation you would think that she would be inclined to offer up at least a morsel to defend herself. It seems the best she can do is state that she was not using the legal definiton of Ponzi.
please see my post to Audrey
Oh good Stuey is back.
if need be I willcome out to Victoria <I live in the okanagen but if you are willing to take your evidence then I will go with you
Iam going to resight a passage that that idiot Arruda wrote(quoted) a few years ago on behalf of a league client contained in the typical League brochure of Bull shit intro .This one called “corporate backgrounder” I ask in advance to forgive my spelling if I made any mistakes as I am a simple person and ask for forgiveness(quote from Bill Orielly)
From around mid 2008
Brigitte,semi retired,Calgary
My husband and I have quite a breadth of Investment experiences.We are or have been in energy technology,oil wells, payroll loans,foreclosures,stocks,internet advertising,gold mining, as well property development and rental.Many of these have had high degree of return but a high degree of risk as well/.
With League by comparison we finally have a sense of safety and freedom from worry.We know that our income is going to show up every month in our bank account.There are no hassles and at this point in our lives we do not need hassle.The amount invested in League has changed our lives in THAT NOW we only work when we choose and we can live the kind of lifestyle that we want. end of quote and to note if anyone bothers to read there are many more of theses quotes there also
The point mainly being I was dumb enough to say hey that,s me and that,s what i too also want .well aint happening
Lots of happy investor storys in this corporate backgrounder like the one above and now
all the dreams of their,s are shattered.One women whos husband died and left her with a paid for house mortgaged it and invested in the league.Wonder how she feels today??
Thats really the Crime committed By gant and Arruda in my opinion. They have failed every single investor in the league in both ethical and moral standards in my personal opinion
Have they broke a actual law? I dont know and cant say they did, but to me in my mind there
both to be judged one day soon
everyone here is just complaining but doing nothing
AJ if you have the evidence of a fraud but don’t want to get involved you could e mail me the info and I will take it to the rcmp
I am involved up to my armpits. They are suing me with YOUR MONEY.
Last time, please: go to the RCMP (financial fraud division) with your paper trail. Show what you relied upon to make your investment. Show how and when the money left your account. show when (if ever) you got the OM or subscription agreement. Tell them precisely what you were told, and how much your ROI was supposed to be. I can help you prove a whole lot of the lies they have told, starting with their education and experience. Magazine and newspaper articles that are full of lies, that people relied upon…national publications.
There are now former employees coming forward with facts regarding their Modus Operandi, all of which will help the case going forward.
In the Duncan LP they say that they ‘purchased’ the property; it is a line item. They never purchased the property, they leased it. It is a huge discrepancy.
Understand my frustration, please. I’ve been writing OMs, business plans and marketing strategies for 25 years. I saw this bafflegab six years ago and never would have thought they could raise $20 with it. I was wrong. What did WC Fields say?
The critical thing is that SOMEONE WITH MONEY IN THIS CRAP TAKE IT TO THE RCMP. I would hope that, if under investigation for fraud, that things will stop. That their assets will be seized.
It has been suggested that perhaps if there is an investor on the Island, i can go with them to the police. (once again) I know investigators at the Saanich Police financial fraud, and that they investigated League about 5 years ago. If you are more comfortable going there, maybe we can do that.
Also, once again, I don’t make a red cent doing this. I cannot afford to spend all of my time trying to recover your money for you.
Maybe you should read before you post. You have no idea what I have shared with the authorities. You are telling me what my duty is. I have performed my duty. future investors are safe from League.
boggles my mind.
AJ,
I live in Ontario and I called the RCMP as you suggested. They asked me what specific claim of fraud I could prove. They said that if I could provide them evidence of fraud then they would investigate.
Can you help? What specifically can you point me to which shows fraud? Do you have documents that I can provide the RCMP?
Audrey, here is what I think everyone needs to do: 1. Put together any and all information regarding the investment that you have. I know much of it disappeared when distributions ended last July, but I have almost everything they ever published, as well as stories in national publications. 2. Put together any emails, mailings, anything you got from them prior to investing. 3. Show the date that the money left your account; and the date that you signed a subscription agreement and your receipt of the OM. If you can show that you got the OM after you put your money in, that is critical. 4. Many investors rely on the experience of the managers. If you relied upon what they claim in their marketing materials, it is all lies, and I can back that up.
The definition of XXXXXX is quite narrow in the law in Canada, but the judge who heard the injunction to stop me from saying that League is a XXXX could not say that it wasn’t. I humbly submit that if you relied upon League having assets (which is in serious doubt) and that you were buying a piece of commercial real estate (as is stated in their advertising) but in fact you were just putting money into a pool that was having trouble making its promised distributions, that is a fraud.
I just read an article about how lame the RCMP is about going after financial fraud because of “lack of resources”. Hooey. We pay 43% of our income in taxes. We deserve far better.
I also won’t hurt to bring up the facts regarding their many foreclosures, as well as the judgements against them with CRA
You have to stop them. You have more money in this crap than anyone else I have communicated with. You have to get the RCMP to shut them down, seize their assets before they can waste any more of your money. It is FRAUD, pure and simple. I am sure we can prove it, but meanwhile, they have to be STOPPED
If you’re so sure crime has been committed, why don’t you go to the authorities?
You know, I just told someone that maybe some people deserve to lose their money. Why would I go to the authorities? Why should I do your work for you? I am not even invested in this crap; you are.
I would respectfully disagree about you being invested AJ. Maybe not financially, but you appear to be emotionally. Why else would you post what you have and stand trial for defamation when you have nothing invested in this?
Every single person who bothers to post here has an agenda – and I don’t mean that in a negative way. It’s just human nature that we act when we feel action is needed. I don’t know what yours is, and I don’t need to know, but I wish you would stop whacking people over the head with the same information and getting mad that they won’t do anything. You keep saying you don’t want to keep doing everyone’s “homework” for them, and then you keep doing so without being asked to. And then you get mad at them because you chose to do it again and they still don’t listen. TYPING IN ALL CAPS DOES NOT IMPROVE A PERSON’S ABILITY TO READ, COMPREHEND, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY AGREE WITH WHAT YOU WRITE.
Why would you go to the authorities? I’ll put forward a possible answer – because you care? You seem to anyway. But then again, I think the more interesting question and answer is why haven’t you?
I say this because in real life, I am an action person. You can even see it in my posts. I don’t have any money invested anymore and yet I am taking the steps I can. I even gave you the phone line to call to report that you believe fraud has been committed which you are able to do even though you haven’t suffered a loss. You talk about the piles of paper you’re sitting on – why doesn’t the RCMP or the BCSC have it? I have contacted Carey Veinotte who has not emailed me back (not complaining – imagine he’s busy), I did some “homework” and figured out how someone (you?) for a very small fee could pull the title on Colwood, I called a realtor I know about pulling title and am waiting to hear back, I have talked to the people whom I know who are still invested and made some suggestions that might help them.
If you want others to act and heed your advice, I think you will likely need to stop berating everyone who posts here. I would ask you to consider the emotional toll it could take on someone to discover that money, their money, that they worked a lifetime for, might have disappeared. Consider that we are actually talking about a group of people who likely have at least average intelligence – they’ve held down a job, had a family, have a house, and a car or two. The people I know got into this in 2007 I think, before all the intercompany stuff went whizzing around. They did some due diligence, even met with Adam and Manny before they signed on the dotted line. I can vouch for them that they are intelligent people, and I doubt they are alone in that. Most humans are trusting souls, and when everything started going downhill with the end of distributions, they probably didn’t want to believe there was a problem. We’ve heard that expressed here more than once.
If you have the information you say you have, then I respectfully urge you to contact the BCSC and the Canadian Anti-fraud hotline and share it. I ask you to do this because it is the right thing to do. I have said it before, and I will repeat it now, I think we have a duty to at least ensure that no one else invests in League without fully understanding all the moving pieces. If that is all I am able to accomplish, then I can at least console myself with that. All I know is that if I had the documents you say you have, they would have been shared a very long time ago.
I give up. WHEN I WRITE IN ALL CAPS IT’S BECAUSE I AM YELLING!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nothing else seems to work. Even that doesn’t work. I am now finished.
I’m sorry to hear you are not willing to hand over whatever evidence you have to the RCMP and BCSC. I wish I had something in hand I could use to help. I hope you will reconsider. It seems a shame to fight for this for so long, and take such a large personal risk with the defamation suit, and then not act on the one thing you can actually control, which is reporting what you know to the authorities.
CL, whoever you are, I completely, 100% agree with you.
I attempted to address the four main contributors to this site and advise them that their beating each other up with what appeared to be “out-doing each other” by either insulting each or simply calling each other names, was not accomplishing anything.
I also suggested these public responses on this site was not doing anything to invite investors to join, rather the complete opposite.
I would like to discuss this situation directly with you. I have been in touch with Rachelle who has attempted to explain what AJ is all about, which I do not accept at all, but Rachelle’s dialogue has suggested to be at least rational.
I have also been in touch with a lawyer who has made some recommendations.
If you are interested in a more professional approach to this very potentially serious issue, let me know by responding and we can try to confirm an approach that will lead to the necessary steps to protect the investors as much a can be done.
Wayne – please email me at clcontact2@gmail.com. Pardon the cloak and dagger, but it’s hard to know who’s who on this blog.
She is not willing to hand over anything because there is nothing to hand over. AJ has one agenda and one only. She has been involved in personal battle with Adam and Manny since they worked with her old boss Al Pratten 8 years ago and split in a huff. The twitter feed that I posted which AJ first denied using and then deleted shows her real motivation.
If you check my posts for the last 5 years then I have been just as critical of League as anyone else. I don’t resort to calling people crooks or trying to use this for personal advantage.
Stuey, please edify us all with your hypothesis regarding my hidden agenda?
I have already been posting on here for the last several days that the PWC is rediculous and another complete waste of league money.What PWC will do for the league and its dire situation is beyound anything I can comprehend
It’s called financing engineering which AG is very good at. It totally does not add value. It’s for them to re-arrange their bad numbers to try to pass the smell test to go public. Because of the big rush I’m sure they have to pay big bucks. League is wasting our money to re-arrange their numbers to please TSX instead of improving the actual running of the business.
I don’t care how much they spend, the numbers will never pass the smell test. It is a huge waste of resources. Investor resources. Remember that these guys started with NOTHING just a few years ago. Every dime they spend is yours.
I have stuck my neck out so far that my nose is bleeding. You people need to do something other than be pissed off.
I agree paying another Co our money to re-organize existing bad investment(s) is not only a waste of time but I wonder how that Co can get paid?
Unless, and I am just playing devil’s advocate here, the TSX has not completely rejected us, because if they have not, going public seems to be a way in which to potentially get our principles back, IMO a better way than going to a lawyer gleeming 30% plus costs off the top
Have you read the prospectus Jeff?
Yes
Did I understand it all?
No
Rachelle’s blog today:
Who knew there could be such a fascinating selection of Spam? The League investor that’s who. As of a few days ago even the investors who bought the more secure Income Priority Units will go without their distributions due Sept 30th. In fact distributions used to be paid monthly before Adam Gant & Emanuel Aruda changed it to quarterly. This begs the question. Is it possible that even a few months ago League was so insolvent that they couldn’t pay distributions and so decided to kick the can down the road for a few more more months? Isn’t that when the construction stopped at Colwood because of non payment of contractors.
According to my information, Price Waterhouse Cooper has been hired to do something over at League that will cost a lot of dough. None of these transactions add value to the REIT. Furthermore until the current BCSC charges are dealt with…there will be no “Going Public” That’s just kicking the can down the road even further.
REIT’s make Money From Buildings
Here’s the fundamental problem with League REIT. They fail at making money and income on their buildings. I am not the only one who had noted this. In fact back in 2008 a report was written by Genesis Land In 2008.
“On the face of it, the League has provided an impressive (albeit complex) offering that appears to be very progressive in terms of providing investors a feeling of comfort and security in their investment. The tax structure of the MFT allows for consolidated RRSP and cash subscriptions.
However, there are a number of concerns about “The League’s” offering:
Track Record of Promoters – In operation since 2004, their past limited partnerships have not illustrated substantial returns (noting that the financial statements only show book value and may not show any appreciation of asset values during this time – Canada’s real estate has boomed since 2004 to 2007).
4. Internal cash and subscriptions are paving for distributions – The past records show that disbursements to the unit holders are coming out of subscribed cash vs. earned profits (since there usually is none or very little). This is obviously not sustainable. There is not enough information on the rental portfolio to analyze the net profitability of the properties.”
I will copy the entirety of the that document in another post, but these are the areas that contain problems.
Employees Coming Forward
Past employees are coming forward as well to discuss problems they may have experienced at League and what they saw from the inside. I asked one fellow (who asked that I keep him anonymous) what he found troublesome while he was there for a short while.
My main objection was their target market. They were selling what I considered highly speculative and thus high risk products to retirees. Unheard of from this side of the business. Compliance for an IIROC firm would rake you over the coals for even suggesting such a product to this demographic. I was in one sales meeting where an incumbent ‘wealth manager’ was bragging about selling one of their LP’s to an 85 year old grandmother. The odds are the poor person would not be around when the project would have been completed or sold. Just awful.
That is just sad. If speaks to the complete indifference of League to comply with the know your client rules and abide by them.
I’m So Angry I Could SPIT!
What is the link to this blog?
i have no money in IGW REIT, i was going to invest in the convertible notes but thanks to this website I decided not to. However, I have a small amount of money in one of their other limited partnerships.
I’ve been following this blog for a while now…seems like there isnt a concensus on what actions to take…
AJ insists to bring this to RCMP and fraud investigation unit, but how likely is RCMP going to get involved? I have a feeling all they can provide is a case number and you’ll be sent home, nothing will be done.
From investors POV, the best solution is to wait for the REIT to go public and sell the shares, at least get something back.
However, if the REIT can never go public as some of you on this blog pointed out, then getting a lawyer seems the best way to go about it. Perhaps with a lawyer’s help, you can get your money back quicker than the others who do nothing…
CC – Mick – I agree with you, but the best interest of the investors is not necessarily going public initially per se but to see the O/S loans paid back to the IGW REIT
How that happens is anyone’s guess, the leverage of going public might work, and it might not ever happen anyway, but I’ll take an even bigger guess and claim that the TSX and BC sec might have said the same thing about the o/s loans, which may or may not include redemption(s)
It’s all about those loans, and I’m the first person to admit blogs like this are likely not helping them get financing, though it’s the League’s mis-management in the first place that helped create this kind of on-line banter
Of course, I could be dead wrong about everything, but the more I banter on-line here and discussing the going on’s off-line with far more savvy real estate people than my myself the picture gets clearer, I really wish the league would just be transparent and just tell us what is actually going on instead of having us investors guess, as the lack of transparancy creates doubt in the marketplace and about their products including accusations of fraud
grizz says:
December 24, 2012 at 11:08 pm
I think the league IPU units are very good investements. Should be little downside/.I think the LP units are risky as some have paid off handsomely and others have suffered.I personally think the blue book is all smoke and mirrors but thats my personal opinion.Overall the league has more upside than down.
PIGHEADED?
AJ dont be so pig headed and why pick on people like me? we are all on the same page
Heres the link to the June NEWS release http://www.marketwired.com/press-release/-1799303.htm It clearly explains/ shows whom was elected as the new trusteee,s
Like I said has nil bearing on my fight to try and retreive some funds
Once more, and then I will never say it again: THERE IS NO MONEY TO RETRIEVE. THERE ARE ONLY THEIR PERSONAL ASSETS, AS EVERYTHING ELSE IS UNDERWATER. YOU ARE BEHIND FIRST AND SECOND MORTGAGES AS WELL AS LIENS. YOU NEED TO OPEN UP YOUR MIND TO THESE FACTS.
I think somebody is getting thrown under the bus
https://research.tdwaterhouse.ca/research/public/Stocks/Overview/ca/PAR.UN
EXECUTIVE OFFICERS
Chairman of the Board of Trustee Louis Maroun
President, Chief Investment Officer Edward Boomer
Chief Executive Officer, Trustee Patrick Miniutti
Vice Chairman of the Board of Trustees Adam Gant
Chief Financial Officer Heather Routly
That,s a old listing.Stockhouse also has old listing .Go to the Real PAR web site
http://www.partnersreit.com/about_directors.html
No gant listed but really who cares? I dont waste my time much on non issues
You know, since your first day in here you have said things like that and were later proven wrong. You need to see the big picture grizz, or paul or solid or whoever you are today
Who do you think controls their website? Who do you think controls td waterhouse? Think, man
That is today’s listing. TODAYs. If they have not re-elected him way back in June, there would have been an announcement and it wouldn’t be on tdwaterhouse website
http://www.timescolonist.com/business/league-group-loses-bid-to-silence-online-critics-1.640347
Gant is trying to remove himself. The optics are terrible, and their little empire is built on optics.
He didn’t resign. He simply was not elected in June at the AGM.
Patrick Miniutti
Then why was it just changed in the past few days? Along with 90% of his bio on LinkedIn?
maybe they? finally updated old information.I looked on the par website and he was not listed.I asked par what happened and as u can read he was simply not relected
really has no bearing on the league and getting any of our money back some day
which may take a year or two.(if ever)
So, it is just another lie. You’d think they would stop.
Does anyone have more information about the change of trustees for the Partners REIT? Gant et al got their slate approved but Gant appears to have disappeared from the executive.
I fully understand what your asking here but what does it have with our delema
(what were discussing here)
I would love to get involved in any action that has a chance of success in recovering some money. Unfortunately I am computer illiterate and did not become aware of these postings until yesterday. I would be very glad to hear from anyone who would let me join them in an effort to get something rolling. My name is Peter Griffin, e-mail pandlgriffin@hotmail.com. Phone 905-990-1522
They NEVER wanted you to understand anything. Their entire game is obfuscation. Regulators rejected it, because they have accountants and lawyers to do the work; and you also pay them (with taxpayer dollars). It is time to get your collective heads out of the sand before it is too late.
all those accountants and all that time and they expect the average joe investor to understand
their financial statements……….really?
personal assets. personal assets. personal assets
have you seen the letter sent out to investors?
50 accountants working on this for 6 months
29000 man hours
100 plus entities
what the hell kind of bookkeeping did they have
the bill must be in the millions this is all our money
time to put a fork in this and call it done!!!!!
I am pretty sure the 501 page Public offering prospectus+ whole public offering schedule is in the millions when everything is accounted for plus LISI earn fees every day off our money and how much can one imagine how much this rediculous PriceWaterhouse investigation is going to cost us. and what is the point of it?? There is none as far as I can tell
okay so according to paul we need approx. 15000.00 to get going the more we can get the less it will cost each of us , whos in
Manny isn’t changing his…lol:
Recognizing that trust is the most valuable form of capital, Arruda built LEAGUE’s investor relations and communications platform on the pillars of fiscal transparency, accountability, and alignment of interests. He then went on to codify these in the company’s Credo, a 21-point declaration of League’s core values and operating principles. This Credo is at the heart of the business values, goals, and
priorities that have shaped the “LEAGUE Way” of doing business.
In 2007, the Canadian Heraldic Authority, operating under the auspices of the Governor General of Canada, granted League its Coat of Arms. Arruda selected each symbol that appears on League’s corporate crest as icons of the company’s values; an iconic symbol of each of the Credo’s tenets, and a visual testament to the integrity of doing business the LEAGUE way.
Mr. Arruda is responsible for leading the development, implementation, and ongoing improvement of the firm’s operating systems as well as its investor relations platform.
remember, he was an actor. So creating illusions is his core skill.
He,s a SLFH
Gant is pulling way back on his resume. Check his linkedin profile. Now claims he started university at 16! Gone is Partners REIT, IGW, etc. Wonder why?
He has already looked at it from what I understand. It will take him hours and hours before he will determine that THERE IS NO MONEY. I have yet to meet a lawyer that works for free. If your goal is to have League shut down, then pursue it. But don’t think for a second that there will be any money.
You don’t know that unitholders will get nothing unless you put it to the test. The only recourse is to force the company into receivership. IPU holders have higher claim than common shareholders (Class AAA), so they might get something. League will spend years trying to go public unless they’re forced into receivership. If Carey Veinotte will take the case, I would take him up on it, but I’m also asking other lawyers.
So what you’re saying is that the order of those who will get anything is 1. 1st place mtg. 2. 2nd place mtg. 3. Lien holders. 4. IPU holders and 5. common shares.
Understand that when they go into receivership, they will still collect their fees.
There is no money. Go to the RCMP financial fraud
Ok lets look at the books.In IGW REIT we have 40 million in assets and 110 million in IPU units outstanding ??never mind REIT units never mind promisary notes in the millions. Now start paying the receiver fees and the other associated fees over a couple years sell at todays market value and see whats left.
after an initial consultation I am sure we would be told if we did not have a case because he and his staff would not put in the time if they felt there was no renumeration in it for them,this is pretty standard in these situations
SM The fellows name is Carey Veinotte cv@tvsbarristers.com. He says and i must beleive him that there is a case because WHY? would he do it on a 30/70 split of any moneys retrieved.The dispursments are photo copy,s,filing, etc there is no actual lawyer billing time.His estimate was about 10-15 K “UNLESS” he has to hire a forensic accountant.Call him see what you think
You don’t understand. There IS NO MONEY TO RECOVER!!! Investors are last, behind mortgage holders and liens. There won’t be a dime, unless you can seize their PERSONAL ASSETS.
I am so tired of saying that.
I believe it is 30% of any monies recovered in the lawsuit disbursements are just that thinks like filing fees etc
Omg. really? 30% of nothing is nothing. BUT, he will get his fees. Who can pay those fees to get nothing?
I understand that someone has been in touch with the lawyer in Vancouver and he would want 30% plus disbursments could that person tell me any more or should I phone the lawyer myself? I would like to know who else is going to be in on this and is this what the investors want to do and go forward?
If anybody still has a brochure for IGW REIT’s Income Priority Units, please e-mail it to me, jeremywong1965@hotmail.com.
so if I lent my wife money 20 years ago and she never paid me back but let the interest accrue over the 20 years I would be a millionaire on paper? fascinating
you know the sad thing is as I read these e mails there is an ad advertising investing in commercial real estate
thank you CL and paul for your explanations.have you received your letters yet showing how much time has been spent by others on this conversion
If stuart little is really adam gant then tell me here and now how much this has cost so far from the time you first proposed this conversion till now
Im looking for transparacy and honesty
Paul – Everytime the league suspends distro there are new people here, so I think while they can read up, new explanations and updates are educational
Alot of people do not necessarily how commercial mortgages work and for that matter commercial loans work beyond it’s simplistic face value, they just invested in a pool that paid out a nice disbursement, and expected it to be run professionally and with transparency
Also alot of people are not even aware of every investment in the pool and or the loans, debts, interest, etc, therefore any and all information besides just saying there’s no money left is beneficial
The only reason I keep hammering that point is because people still hold out some hope of getting something out…
And what you are suggesting in your third paragraph, that people aren’t aware of what the investment is, I would suggest that perhaps due diligence before they put their money in would have been a prudent thing. Just sayin.
Yes and No AJ
Zillions of people buy stocks everyday without doing such due diligence
I highly doubt most investors know their entire mutual funds portfolio let alone the real estate and the loans each one of those co’s made and or has outstanding
That being said SM accounting for an O/S loan which has accrued interest is normal business
The question is, do other REITS, private or public regularily risk 100M plus via loans, unsecured, also to entities developed by the same trustees as the loaning party?
Can anyone who is truly knowledgeable about other REITS answer this….
I’ve wasted enough time trying to explain it to you. It is now time for you to do your homework. Try including in the homework the document I sent you about an hour ago.
Jeff said and i quote:
Alot of people do not necessarily know how commercial mortgages work and for that matter commercial loans work beyond it’s simplistic face value, they just invested in a pool that paid out a nice disbursement, and expected it to be run professionally and with transparency.
Well said JEFF, we all and I include myself invested in the league based on those premises however Gant and Arruda dropped the ball. Went rouge on us, and now we are screwed.I will give you a perfect example of HOW bad this deal has been for me
I got a phone call one day from a league salesman(2009) and told me he had a fantastic deal in the LP called Duncan.Can,t lose he says,super clean etc.You get 10% for 2 years and full refund of capitol PLUS a share in profits if there were any.I never saw a OM,I was never offered one and I had faith in league at the time as I had 1M in ipu units.I gave them 450K
They said they had bought a existing shopping mall in Duncan BC for a low low price of 15 million.They estimated to spend another 11 roughly of cleanup and exspantion etc with a estimated resale of 38 million. OK they forgot to tell me one(little) thing.This was so cheap because there was NO LAND.It was indian lease land(no resale value)
Heres how it goes 4 years later.I lost my 450K.The total cost of the project is over 63 million dollars.It has a value of around 40 million(yet to be seen).IGW REIT is owed 20 million.LP investors lost 15 million in total. Colwood is way way way worse
No AJ, disagree
This blog needs more stories like Paul (great post) in more detail, simplistic detail, communicated with less anger and emotion, and accentuated more with facts
There are people here who know DUNCAN was a bad investment but still do not know the nitty gritty of the details why that is so, (and with no offense AJ) it needs to be told by the actual investors who lost funds, and how, and why
Paul and Solidfiction should expound, if they feel up to it
I am super lucky in that I did pull my money in time, so I am not up to date with the communications they are sending out. I remain interested because of loved ones who aren’t so lucky. I’m happy in many ways to be out of the loop, as it made my blood boil every time they sent me an unsolicited letter warning me that a new valuation was coming up, and if I didn’t get off the retraction queue, I would lose out on any gain (retractions are paid out at value at the time your retraction request is put in). All on very slick, expensive paper and printed in colour for maximum expense. A terrible waste of paper, ink and postage that could have been handled with a phone call or email. On second thought, I was getting the emails too.
Jeff several of us here have pointed out(several times) what the colwood and duncan loan status is.It pretty obvious if you follow the league,read the prospectus, etc that the loans are
unsecured and as things stand pretty much will never be repayed.( my opinion)Its possible I guess if your like Gant and beleive in fairy tale endings that the loans would be repayed someday.How? I have no idea because as I see things right now its impossible.I am of the opinion The REAL (not league inflated) assett value of the propertys don,t come to any more than whats owing in 1st and 2nd mortgage charges ? so how then would the loans be repayed? The big deal with league is the Income produced from rents and Unit trust payments
etc does not service the IGW debt. thats why they have been selling propertys, and discontinued all Distributions etc.I think the financials if you look hard enough show that the league actually lost 40 million last year.I think part of that the failed condo convertion lose
I may not be 100% correct but I know iam pretty close to giving a fair view of the league financial situation. I mean look at this way if it was all wine and roses Like Gant and arruda say it is we would not be having these conversations and they would not be spending gobbs of money trying to go public.
google(dot) ca/finance?cid=896393627550745
Thank god. You finally are there.
hopefully they are all being paid with the accrued interest from colwood and duncan
I take it that,s sarcastic humor from you SM?
Perhaps it might be beneficial here for someone here (much more in the know than myself) who can explain what is going on with Ft St John, Duncan, Colwood, and in a balanced way can report the probaility of the IGW REIT loans (and all other loans) ever being paid back and or those projects being developed, sold, whatever,or all they in foreclosure and dead
IMO I’ve concluded (right or wrong) it’s those loans that is the primary cause that forced the League to end distro’s on both IPU’s and the IGW REIT, and if I am correct (which I may not be), I think a lawyer, the BC securities, the RCMP, an accountant, a real estate expert, should all take a much closer look at those loans, are loans such as this allowed by the OM’s, were they a higher risk than say buying an existing commercial building, did the OM allow for such risks, is it an industry standard to make the loans un-secured, is it normal for a REIT to loans funds to another REIT or LP trusteed by the same 2-3 people, etc, and if the loans are unrecoverable is there is legal case for mis-management
It doesn’t matter. They have no respect for your money.
just received my long anticipated letter from league
it shows how much time and effort has gone into this reorganization very nice
The one thing that it doesn’t show at the end which I want to know is
HOW MUCH HAS ALL THIS COST?
To Paul
If interest is accruing yet no real dollars are being exchanged how is that beneficial to the unit holders?
If I go to the bank and accrue zero dollars every month after 6 months how much do I have
if no dollars are actually being exchanged then you are accruing nothing
must be an accounting term
SM – there are two ways to account for transactions – using a cash basis (how Canada Revenue Agency looks at most transactions) or an accrual basis. With audited financial statements, you will see the accrual method, and with income tax returns you will see the cash method (and I am over-simplifying here so I ask that the knowledgeable accounting people not get over-analytical on this). The cash method recognizes transactions when the money actually changes hands, the accrual method recognizes transactions when one the financial event occurs including making a promise to pay money at a later date.
When someone says that interest has “accrued”, it means that as of the date of the financial statements, a party (like IGW REIT unitholders) have earned the right to be paid interest by the organization (like Colwood), but the cash has not yet been paid. In the normal course of business, one party owes another party a sum of money all the time, and calling it accrued is generally not a problem as most of the time for most organizations, the bills get paid. Where it is problematic is when an organization owes money to another party, has not paid it, and cannot pay it. Then the accrual is just a paper promise worth nothing, unless there is some way to force the organization to release assets (sell property, securities, etc.) to pay off the accrued money owing.
So, the interest accruing and owed to IGW REIT is only beneficial if one day there is cash available to Colwood to satisfy its debt obligations, and as I am sure you know, there are a multitude of opinions as to the likelihood of that on this blog. Hope that helps.
SM now your catching on here.Where have you been for two years?Gant and Arruda taking money from people like you and I whom invested in the IGW reit and recklessly lent it to COLWOOD LP and DUNCAN LP have been the biggest by far Downfall of the league and in my opinion the single reason we are where we are today.
Loosing 30 million in the ontario condo convertion fiasco was second worst
Like i said when you make 50 cents and pay out 1.00 you dont last
Paul – Perhaps you could expand for alot of us went went on with the Ontario Condo Conversion?
Thx
Here’s a link about the Ontario piece
landlordrescue(dot)ca/league-investment-opportunity-50-52-arrow-road-toronto/#more-3052
It looks like Gant has been removed as a Trustee in Partners.
Is there an online reference to this or is this information passed along from a source? I wouldn’t mind seeing the details if available.
I just went to the Partners website, and he is no longer there. Minutti still is.
Dear [addressee],
Earlier this week we wrote to you regarding LEAGUE IGW REIT. In the letter we also advised that we would produce a follow-up video.
If you have a question you would like me to answer in the video please send it to call@leagueis.ca. The video will provide further discussion around the current status of the REIT and will attempt to respond to your questions.
We will email you as soon as the video is available.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Regards,
Adam D. Gant
On Behalf of the Trustees of LEAGUE IGW REIT
I love the last line here “on behalf of the Trustees of League IGW REIT”
Slick marketing. One of their core skills.
Note he did not say the IGW REIT is better than ever, like Duncan !
who I would really like to hear from is seniors and others who have really been impacted by all of this
as for myself I should have known better but at this point it is what it is
It will give me an incentive to move forward as this is not going to be an easy task
I know that Stuey is Gant. They aren’t the only ones who can look up IP addresses.
The thing is, they think their investors are STUPID.
I also know that they were investigated back in 2007 by the local police in Saanich, BC. I am sure they would be happy to re-open the file.
Their actions should be given public attention. Those investors living in the BC area should approach their local newspaper and see if a reporter is interested in writing a story on this matter. In addition those investors residing close to leagues headquarters should arrange pickets in front of their offices to bring public attention and the media involved.
to stuart little
you posted on sept 22 the following
everyone of those investmentswas paying interest to IGW,now the interestmay have been reinvested or accrued but interest was still being paid and accounted for
how would you know that?
SM?? Everyone knows the Colwood and Duncan pay interest on the huge loan IGW made to them however neither business has a positive cash flow in fact colwood has no cash flow so its all accumulating but that means nothing because even the basic loan will never be recovered by the IGW REIT (us)
SM, I think that you have identified the main problem: Gant and Arruda (and their minions) ARE computer savvy. (They take the time to chase down IPO addresses, rather than do the WORK needed to make a profit).
They have used your money to build this illegitimate empire, and most of it was done online. Google ads for heaven’s sake. Name one robust investment company that resorts to Google ads.
All we can do is hope that BCSC puts them under a CTO, which would be broadly announced. Maybe then our cowardly media will pick up the story, and maybe THEN investors will know what is going on with their money. We can start blogs all over the place; we can continue to write to and call BCSC, OSC, etc. But we can’t beat them at the internet game, because they have sooooooooo much money to spend. Your money.
I just don’t understand why more people don’t go to the cops. It is the only sensible route. It is the only way anyone is going to see a dime.
A flurry of people reporting this to the RCMP will help, but it is a slow process in Canada and the white collar criminal division is understaffed in BC and busy with cases in the mining and pump & dump scene around the TSX (formerly VSE).
Given the magnitude of the loss, and the systemic process of multiple LPs losing money one could certainly argue it is commercial fraud, i.e. criminal.
Better & faster is a civil lawsuit in parallel.
If investors do nothing, nothing will happen. Writing letters to your MLA, the Attorney General in BC and the BC Security Commission does help, too.
this might sound strange but could someone put out on social media platforms for investors in league to come forward and tell us there situation? the more investors we can get and the more situations we can learn about the more ammunition we will have down the road.
I do not want to judge people and say this or that about what they have done ,but this needs to become more public than it currently is.
I am not really computer savy or I would do it myself
I wonder why, every time I mention the word FRAUD, that they respond with attacks on me personally. It is because this is the ONLY place where we can hit them and hurt them. They can go on and on ad nauseum about all of the disclosures in their OMs. It doesn’t matter any more. It is fraud, plain and simple, and the sooner the RCMP are involved, the sooner you may see a some money.
Paul, you are right. It is what I have said all along. There is no money. Just mountains of debt piled upon valueless properties.
my om clearly states that beginning in 2012 there will be an annual general meeting
A note to every poster here and it has been said by a few other before.GO READ the august public offering prospectus.READ the financials.There debt payments exceeed their income
The listed assetts are estimated assetts. IGW REIT loan to Colwood of almost 100 million is most likely not collectable,the 20 million loan to Duncan is in the same area.
The reason we dont see IPU payments is obvious.The actual worth of league if we shut down tomorrow is Zero as debt exceeeds assetts .Like I said a lot of this is because the Colwood debt is not obtainable(full repayment not possible) and then add in the fact that IGW REIT through the goodness of Gant and Arruda we are guaranteeing many loans and mortgages against propertys that have private first and second mortgages against them.Also to note does any reasonable person not take notice and see the many lawsuits being brought forward against these guys and the REIT.This is not because we are paying more than we owe let me tell you that. The Biggest short term problem as I see it right here today is Income is less than debt payments due.In other words 50 cents in and 1.00 going out
forgot to say the PAR.UN income is most likely the only thing keeping the wolves from the doors and its share value is recovering nicely but Timberline has first dibs at that deal.I beleive the income from that is around 250K PM
Again, Adam Gant enters this conversation covertly. I DON’T WANT LEAGUE TO FAIL. I DON’T GIVE A CRAP ABOUT THEIR PATHETIC LAWSUIT THAT THEY ALREADY LOST. I WANT INVESTORS TO GET SOMETHING OUT OF THIS THING. Go away Gant. Or I will see that you are banned.
there seems to be two ways people want to move ahead
some want to pursue a criminal case
some want to pursue a civil case
as I personally have no evidence of fraud I would be willing to work with a group to pursue the civil case
to John regarding the IPO and his thought that pursuing these matters would hurt the process of going public
just consider this
they have priced their preferred shares at 25 with a 5.65 distribution
they missed their very FIRST distribution what do you think would happen to the share price because of what they did many preferred shares have taken a hit lately one that misses it’s distribution would be decimated
as far as the common units there is no distribution and the asset base that they are relying on is very shaky they are competing against companies that are much better organized and managed
all I basically want out of this is my money returned that is why I’m doing this
SM your 100% correct and i like you just want to try and get some money back.I originally thought going public was the answer to get at least 50 cents on the dollar plus the private top off money but the further things went,the more money they spend and the hole these guys have dug I dont see this thing going public and A note to Jermey
quoting things from a 2 year old financial is pretty much mute as many things have changed in two years and net assett values are subject to interpertation.Adams values and real life street values
based on what calcs ? based on what assumptions ? Did you assume Colwood is worth $100M ? or 0 ?
Assuming 0 these numbers you state are complete and utter BS !
Did you count the assets sold as shown in one of the posts ?
it is 2013, almost 2014. The REIT units in IGW REIT are worth 0. The IPUs may have some value, even if Colwood is 0.
More accurate data is in the https://leaguereviewed.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/league-prelim-prospectus-aug-2013.pdf prospectus and the latest published OM dated Nov 2012: http://www.bcsc.bc.ca/eservices/Inc/ViewDoc.asp?DocNum=H7Q1O6P5X7W1N7MFB6K5O7U4W7L3&s=False
I just uncovered this site today.
My story based on my recollection of events :
I originally invested in the IGW REIT when the only equity financing source was common units. The OM indicated that invested funds were to be used for purchasing existing properties with existing cash flow and potential upside through improvements. Not long after I invested, League managers orchestrated a change to the trust agreement through a vote where a major of common unit holders present at the special meeting agreed to take a subordinate position to a new category of equity called IPUs (Why would a common unit holder agree to that without any compensation?). Not much later, another vote of common unit holders and now IPU holders approved a change to the scope of the IGW that enabled it to lend to affiliated entities to obtain a better return and continue paying high rates of interest to IPU holders. Meanwhile distributions to common unit holders were reduced from that promised/suggested in the OM and promotional material. See a common theme? Common unit holders were not given the option to convert to IPUs.
I fell into the common trap of hoping that things would improve or would not get worse. In hindsight I should have retracted my units when I had a chance but I convinced myself that a prudent manager would not lend unsecured monies to affiliates with a high risk of not being repaid. Big mistake.
I never signed up for any of the risk that the IGW ultimately assumed and I feel duped. League managers benefited from all the financing activities (fees charged on the IPU redemption churn) within the REIT and all the promoter fees from creating LPs using unsecured monies lent to the LPs by the REIT. As well, the LPs were limited to accredited investors due to the risk and no OM but League managers effectively transferred that risk to the IGW REIT common unit holders. Remember, many IGW REIT investors were smaller investors who most likely never knew of the horrible risks that were hidden in the details of the IGW REIT OMs.
In my opinion, there is ample information (I am not a lawyer but I am informed and have boxes of league material) to support the view that League managers were not acting in the interests of the common unit holders, enriched themselves at the expense of common unit holders and breached fiduciary responsibilities as trustees of the IGW REIT.
I would be interested in discussing potential options with like minded individuals. You can email me at eccofriend@gmail.com.
I don’t think the issue is PROVING fraud, just yet. The issue is (and you and others keep sidelining this) that there are no assets, there is only debt. The ONLY ASSETS ARE THEIR PERSONAL ASSETS. They will be long gone if you don’t stop them.
Investors, please go back to the post regarding the steps you need to take in order to take this to the RCMP. Don’t be lazy about this.
Don’t suppose anyone has done a title search?
Here is the information on how to conduct a title search. Does anyone know the PID (parcel identifier number)? If so, please post it on this blog:
http://www.ltsa.ca/cms/how-to-access-records
“Land title and survey records are accessible by contacting one of the following:
Lawyer, notary or land surveyor.
Registry agent.
BC Government agent (Service BC).
These sources have electronic access to LTSA documents through BC OnLine or GATOR. These online systems require fee-based user accounts and passwords.
Alternatively, you may visit an LTSA office in person. For transactions carried out in-person, fees are payable by Visa, MasterCard, debit card, cash or cheque. For transactions carried out by mail, fees are payable by cheque only. Please make cheques payable to: Land Title and Survey Authority of British Columbia. Please remit in Canadian funds. Do not mail cash.
To order survey records of Crown land, orders may also be placed by email or phone. For more information, see Ordering Crown Land Records.
Legal Descriptions and Parcel Identifier Numbers (PIDs)
A legal description or a Parcel Identifier Number (PID) is often required to access land title and survey records. A PID is a unique nine-digit number used to identify titled parcels of land in BC.
The PID can be found on a property’s tax assessment notice and on certain land title records. If you know the civic street address for a property, BC Assessment may be able to provide you with the legal description or PID.
The LTSA is unable to retrieve records using only a civic address.”
There is still $73.6M of net assets attributable to League IGW REIT unit holders, and $16.4M of net assets attributable to IGW REIT LP unit holders (2011 financial statements).
Many people here are more emotional than rational. It will be difficult to prove fraud. It may be easier to prove that suspending IPU distributions is in breach of IPU’s fixed distribution entitlement.
according to my om there is supposed to be an annual meeting between league and the unitholders
when was the last time they had one?
in my 7 years at the league i have never been invited to such meetings and have never received notice of such meetings.I know thats a real surprize
Unitholders are not voting shareholders in IGW.
They are in the news again
http://www.timescolonist.com/quadra-village-units-ready-to-rent-1.637221
I would think that amongst 2200 investors there would be some lawyers
maybe but a divorce lawyer is a far cry from a BC securitys lawyer such as Vienotte is
There are some interesting action ideas here, the RCMP, a BC Sec lawyer who wants 30% plus, other lawyers, removing Adam & Co as managers, but there’s still only maybe 40 investors here of a potential 2200, and so IMO there is still a large silent majority out there that will likely do absolutley nothing, (right or wrong)
They secretly hope AJ (and others here) are incorrect, that there is in fact a percieved value out there for these properties and the League will eventually list on the TSX in 2014
Now AJ (and others) will say that’s a pipe dream, fair enough, and if they are correct, that’s months of more inaction while Rome burns, however, and this is the kicker, if they are incorrect, all the drama and angst here (and on other forums) hurt the potential public value, as do RCMP investigations, BS Security investigations, and lawsuits
I just wanted to point this out because I do not think anyone else to date has flat out said this sthis and IMO it has to be a considertion especially since someone today mentioned why are current investors not being more pro-active, I think this is foremost reason, it’s a personal dilemma each investor faces far beyond just being generally pissed off, what can I do to show the League I’m not gonna take it anymore but in turn do those actions in the end hurt my investment
Remember, there are many people here, no longer invested, or never were, they have no skin in the game, just saying
You make a good point Jeff. AJ and Rachelle want League to fail. The reason they want that to happen is that they believe that will end the lawsuit against them. AJ regularly states that League won’t be around long enough to get to court with her. Investors don’t want League to fail, they want League to succeed so that they can get a retun on their investment.
Different motivations demand different actions.
380. Fraud
380. (1) Every one who, by deceit, falsehood or other fraudulent means, whether or not it is a false pretence within the meaning of this Act, defrauds the public or any person, whether ascertained or not, of any property, money or valuable security or any service,
(a) is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to a term of imprisonment not exceeding fourteen years, where the subject-matter of the offence is a testamentary instrument or the value of the subject-matter of the offence exceeds five thousand dollars; or
(b) is guilty
(i) of an indictable offence and is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years, or
(ii) of an offence punishable on summary conviction,
where the value of the subject-matter of the offence does not exceed five thousand dollars.
Minimum punishment
(1.1) When a person is prosecuted on indictment and convicted of one or more offences referred to in subsection (1), the court that imposes the sentence shall impose a minimum punishment of imprisonment for a term of two years if the total value of the subject-matter of the offences exceeds one million dollars.
Affecting public market
(2) Every one who, by deceit, falsehood or other fraudulent means, whether or not it is a false pretence within the meaning of this Act, with intent to defraud, affects the public market price of stocks, shares, merchandise or anything that is offered for sale to the public is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding fourteen years.
I’d argue there is deceit here, namely the inflated NAV and the pretense that Colwood can pay $100M and that distributions of 8-12% can be made. Of course League would argue it was all disclosed in the OM, you signed a document it was risky, there was never a promise of a guarantee of 12% bla bla bla
Going public on the TSX will do nothing besides validate the true shareholder value, namely close to 0 if Colwood is listed at $160M+ as their preliminary prospectus here shows: https://leaguereviewed.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/league-prelim-prospectus-aug-2013.pdf
Colwood project, if sold today, with approved plans and a semi finished garage is worth maybe $12-$20M, maybe less due to low demand for condos in Colwood, far less than the first and second mortgages exceeding $26M.
Well, if I had the sort of money in this scheme that some have, I would be on the doorstep of the RCMP. Unless you are a lawyer or a judge, I don’t think you should say that ‘no crime has been perpetrated’. I believe there has been. Financial fraud is a crime.
There is no crime perpetrated by League, so stop calling for criminal prosecution. But suspending IPU distributions or redemptions may be a breach of contract, and that can be handled by civil court. The presumption is that League cannot go public because Colwood LP cannot go public, so waiting for their IPO is a waste of time (League will continue to postpone their IPO). The legal recourse is to force League into receivership (this is what happened to Blockbuster Video) as League has no cash.
http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/scams-fraudes/inv-fra-eng.htm
AJ – I reviewed the RCMP link you posted and it contains information on how people who have not suffered a loss can report a potential fraud. Please note the Anti-fraud Centre contact info below in the first paragraph. You can send all of the information you have gathered to them. I know you would really like an investor to step forward and do this, but at least this is something you have control over and can do. I hope you contact them.
“Reporting Scams and Frauds
If you have not lost any money and have not provided personal or financial information (relating to a fraud or scam), and you simply want to inform the appropriate organizations, report it to the Canadian Anti-fraud Centre by calling 1-888-495-8501
If you received a fraudulent e-mail soliciting personal or financial information (phishing scam), you should also advise the financial institution or other agency whose name was used.
If you are a victim of fraud or if you unwittingly provided personal or financial information (identity fraud), follow the steps in our Victim Assistance Guide.
If you are a victim of fraud and it is not related to identity fraud, contact the police service of jurisdiction in your area.
Always report fraud to the Canadian Anti-Fraud Centre at info@antifraudcentre.ca or by dialing 888-495-8501 or on-line by visiting the CAFC website.”
the people here who have any evidence of fraud need to present such evidence to the authorities they should investigate and determine if indeed there is enough evidence to present to the crown for further prosecution I as such have no evidence however my goal is to get the investors to
change management and try to repair some of the damage
get as many investors as much as can be recovered in civil court
keep in mind this company has much experience with the court system and a convoluted system of trusts and holdings which could entail having to hire a forensic accountant to follow the money trail
What I think is needed right now is a investor list so that the investors can be filled in and hopefully share the expenses that are sure to arise
we need more investors on this blog to come forward
Also I dont see the RCMP as a option right now as there is no real criminal law Broken as i can tell although iam far from a expert in that field. what would you suggest the RCMP could do for us at this point in time? Iam out of ideas so?
I think you need to go to the RCMP with any proof you can gather, and then find a good criminal lawyer. If you all want to throw good money at a lawyer who will likely not recover anything (there is nothing to recover), go for it.
AJ you may be correct? Iam certainly not a expert in this field by any means But? why would a lawyer of this caliber want to get as involved as this fellow will just to get exspences?not arguing just saying
They can at least go to Crown and ask that the passports be held. If there is a case, their personal assets can be seized. Financial Fraud has the power to search for their assets, as well. Even that won’t guarantee you will see a dime, but it is a far greater shot than paying a lawyer to go after assets that don’t exist.
Hiring a criminal lawyer doesn’t make sense to me. Criminal charges would be laid and prosecuted by the crown, not by citizens. Investors only need a lawyer if it’s a civil matter.
I am not suggesting there will be money to recover, but a civil matter could uncover facts that could potentially point to a criminal matter too. And while I think some people might only want their money back, I imagine others might at least find some solace if League is held accountable at some level, or at the very least forced to stop.
And again while some may disagree, I think we collectively have a responsibility to shine a spotlight on what has transpired here, regardless of the outcome. If I can’t help the people I know recoup at least some of their investment (and I am not hopeful), I at least want to make sure it doesn’t happen to anyone else. It saddens to me to know that out there somewhere today, someone may have “invested” their money with League.
I suppose I am confused by this post. I thought you had previously urged a class action lawsuit so you can build a list of investors. Have you changed your mind?
who,s suggested hiring a criminal lawyer? no one from what i know? we just want a lawyer that has some chance of getting monies recovered for investors.
I just think it’s too late. I only suggested getting together and at least try to get the names of all of the investors, which you could do if you brought a class action suit. I think you can build a criminal case for fraud. No judge has said that they are NOT a P*****, which is a criminal offense.
Paul, please read the financials. There is no money to recover. Zip. Nada. Zero. How much are you willing to spend to be told that?
There is a lawyer in downtown Vancouver who will look into the case, but only concerning IPU — specifically, the suspension of IPU dividends and not redeeming matured IPU, both of which are breach of contract. You will need to provide him with a copy of the OM (including financial statements) and any relevant brochures. I have the OM dated October 18, 2011. I have only the IGW REIT overview brochure; it would be helpful to have the IPU brochure(s). The lawyer charges a $1,000 fee to examine whether class legal action can be certified. Here is his contact information:
David Varty
Varty & Company, Barristers & Solicitors
900 – 555 Burrard Street
Vancouver, B.C. V7X 1M8
Telephone: (604) 684-5356
Fax: (604) 443-5001
http://www.vartylaw.ca
Email: dvarty@smartt.com
My investment in League is $108,000 of IPU, so a $1,000 fee is steep. If you have more at stake (or if we pool our money for the fee), contact the lawyer, pay the fee, send him League’s documents, and hear what he thinks.
Don’t bother taking legal action for common shares (Class AAA shares), because they have no fixed dividend. But fixed dividend is in the terms of IPU, so a suspension of dividends may constitute a breach of contract. Refusing to redeem matured IPU is certainly a breach. The only legal action to take is for breach of contract on IPU. When speaking to the lawyer, do not mention fraud or common shares.
so what we need to do is get 2 or 3 legitimate investors together and consult with this lawyer?
I would be willing to be one of them,although I live in the okanagen the other 2 should be from around Vancouver as this is where the lawyer is located? any comments or takers?
I have conversed very exstensively with this lawyer. He seems willing to take them on for a 30% fee plus office exspences.I,am in if as you say can we get 3-4 investors to split the exspence bills. Iam not interested if any “waynes” are involved. I.am a mean SOB when people lie, cheat and then steal my money as i feel this is what has happened.I live in the OK valley also
next step: contact Rachelle or Allisson or better the lawyer to discuss next steps, such as demanding a list of investors and to get a law suit on title
I’d like to see what we investors can do together…if it’s proving fraud then lets combine efforts and do something. If the first thing is contacting Rachelle or Allison then let’s do it. Action steps will at least help in uniting us and in knowing where we stand legally.
I have emailed Carey Veinotte and will share any reply I receive on this blog. If you would like to email him yourself, the firm’s website is www (dot) tvsbarristers (dot) com and his email address is cv @ tvsbarristers (dot) com. He will not be able to do anything on my behalf, but I have contacted him with respect to others who are still invested who would have to carry any potential action forward.
On their website under “Practice Areas”, the firm states the following:
“The Firm’s uncompromising approach on behalf of clients is perhaps best represented by the precedent-setting case, Anderson v. British Columbia Securities Commission, which TVS won at the BC appellate court and which continues to serve as the benchmark for what constitutes fraud of the BC Securities Act.”
Sounds like it could be a good fit.
You may also want to Google “Anderson v. British Columbia Securities Commission” and read the judgment before proceeding. The firm, including Mr. Veinotte, represented the individuals found to have committed fraud and misrepresentation by the BCSC. They were successful at having the BCSC’s findings of fraud and misrepresentation overturned at the appelate court, although the parties in question did not appeal some of the BCSC’s findings. It may not matter to you which side the firm argued for, but thought I should disclose it just in case it does.
Talking to a lawyer is probably the first step to take. However, those guys are not cheap to talk to. Any lawyer can instruct you about your legal rights and available avenues. For a price, they’ll let you cry on their shoulder. However, if in the end there’s no money to collect from League, then what’s the point of spending money on lawyers with no financial settlement in site?
Colwood LP has no value to investors whatsoever. The project, if sold today at market prices would fetch far less than the $26M first and second mortgages. As such the $100M loan receivable by IGW REIT from Colwood LP is worth zero, and as such the NAV for equity investors in IGW REIT is zero, too. However, IPU holders get paid in priority to equity investors, after mortgage holders, so there maybe some equity left for IPU holders. Someone ought to do some math here, taking the property sales shown here https://leaguereviewed.wordpress.com/2013/09/24/property-sales-in-2012-2013/ and take them off the assets shown here https://leaguereviewed.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/league-prelim-prospectus-aug-2013.pdf and calculate the net equity (all assets minus all mortgages) and then divide this by the number of IPU units outstanding.
The preliminary prospectus states a sale price of Colwood asset of over $160M, which of course is a joke, but not technically illegal. Similarly the “pricing NAV” of $1 used is not illegal as the OM clearly shows that the true NAV and the pricing NAV are not the same. However, an argument could be made, and should be made in my opinion, that the EMD LISI did not represent the investment’s risks properly. This will help investors after 2010, but likely not those that invested without an EMD prior to that.
yes I am embarrassed I bought into this ,but this does not help me at this point passion is good but at this point we need a logical way to move forward ,to me it does not matter how much money any investor put into this,however the amount invested by each person is important to him/her.
All properties in IGW REIT have an income stream. The value of these assets exceeds the mortgages. So, there is value in IGW REIT.
A vote by unit holders could be held and management changed to preserve some value for the IPU holders.
A coordinated action by several people, with a lawyer to guide investors, is very doable if enough people are interested in trying to retrieve some of their money and the rest via civil litigation.
What happened to the money from the property sale in 2012 and 2013 ?
Is LISI still raising money ?
You just don’t get it. I will only repeat this one more time. Investors are last. Mortgages are first and second. There is no money. YOU MUST TRY TO PROVE FRAUD. If you wait, they will be gone.
IMHO, if you are not passionate about this mess, you either 1. Have very little money in it, 2. Have lots of money and can afford to lose it, or 3. Are so embarrassed that you bought into their tripe that you are trying to defend yourself.
these are the kinds of posts we need ,yes there may be no money left but since it seems impossible to know for sure we have to plod on what we need is more investors to start coming online in this discussion and get a clearer view of what is actually going on, and for that to happen we have to keep it civil
Why is it impossible to know for sure? Have you read their financial statements? Every deal is under water. This is FACT. If you haven’t done your homework, you only have yourself to blame.
One last time: there is no money. There are no assets. Only their personal assets. You have to build a case for fraud. You have to stop them from leaving the country. It is very simple, really. You can talk politely with all of the other investors, and watch Gant and Arruda leave, or you can take what you have to the RCMP Financial Fraud division.
after reading some of the posts here and responses I am wondering if some of you do work for league if so it is going to be difficult for us legitimate investors to come up with a solution on this forum I just know that this situation cannot continue as is.
SM thats one problem for sure.Yes passions run high and tempers flair(mine will) but posters whom are that easly offended and spend more time on here chastising the lowly screwed investor instead of directing it towards the culprits Gant and Arruda those types I simply have no time for.I know that Carey Vienotte a securitys lawyer is interested in chalanging the league on our behalf.Give him a call and talk to him
what I am looking for here is ideas good bad or whatever so we can discuss the pros and cons of each
bickering amongst each other is exactly what I am not looking for between us all there must be some course of action that we can pursue and agree to.
I agree with SM and Wayne, unfort you also have to recognize investors are angry, frustrated, and fearful, and there’s a couple of people here in legal battles with the League, so while that does not excuse their on-line behaviour and the sarcastic and sometime insulting tone of their posts, those like myself and yourself that have a more balanced approach have to be uber-patient with everyone
Remember, many stand to lose excess retirement funds but others are potentially losing their life savings here, that naturally brings out the worst in people, but it’s at least understandable, we do need to empathise with each other and where applicable calm each other down
I still suggest those who signed OM’s in the same years and bought similar investments need to get together and consider making joint BC Securities complaints and at least seek legal advice regarding potential civil suits in cases where the League may have failed to follow it’s own OM
The alternative is hoping the TSX is willing to list the stock and that you will be able to sell it keeping in mind if you take a loss, you can sue for the net loss, if there is a strong legal case that shows gross mismanagement, fraud, or simply not following it’s OM
My contact is jc@collectiveconcerts.com
Jeff, I appreciate what you are saying. I really do. In a sane world, it makes sense. But it is too late. Firstly, TSX will never list this thing. Ever. Secondly, they have lined their pockets with YOUR money. Gant lives in a $10M house, they have property all over the world. Consider this: of almost $300M in investor money, there are NO real assets on their books. They have leveraged themselves out of business. The real money walked out last year, and they had to go to Firm Capital. I know the guy who had $30M in. He is a very smart real estate investor (and also very wealthy) who saw the writing on the wall.
There are young widows who put their husband’s entire insurance redemption in League. People did reverse mortgages on their houses. They smooth talked people out of everything, and SPENT IT ON THEMSELVES. It is criminal.
Yes Wayne good luck and dont let the door hit u in the arse on the way out.
“If I come up with something definitive, it will be discussed with others, and if it is determined by intelligent discussion, not within the main four foul-mouthed posters here, it will certainly be share and proposed to the majority of investors.”
Just way too funny my man. what are you right up there next to god?
Wayne says:
September 25, 2013 at 5:26 am
Again, there is a group of you guys who are completely useless when it comes to constructive information. Insulting people will not get any support or cooperation when needed.
Really Wayne? what do u suggest we try the howdy doody theme they use at the park with little kids having a birthday party.
Again, the culture, even in your response is nothing more than insulting with a “smart remark”, simply intended to intimidate. Nothing constructive.
The last post by AJ “NO investor has ever lost money in one of my deals. So stfu,” This came out today. This AJ person posts like this ALL the time. What is useful or constructive?
SM also just posted “there are supposedly approx. 2200 investors in league yet only about 20 post on here they must have an opinion on what can be done.”
Why do you think that is? I don’t have an answer, but I would strongly suggest, this person simply either scares people away or they have seen this type of person operate before and have no interest in being involved because they know he/she can be just a destructive as productive. This is only my opinion, if any actions were started, and I knew that AJ was a part of the process, I would warn the legal team of this character.
I am pursuing other avenues……they really are out there!!!! This Leaguereviewed site is not the center of the universe.
If I come up with something definitive, it will be discussed with others, and if it is determined by intelligent discussion, not within the main four foul-mouthed posters here, it will certainly be share and proposed to the majority of investors.
I have stayed out of this blog site because I identified month ago that four of you simple beat each other up and try to impress each other. If you worked together and used your knowledge to help rather than impress each other, I would suggest there would be larger list of investors posting.
I gave up the other day…almost. I have been fighting this battle for 5 years, and yet, every day, idiots pour money into this garbage. I only become passionate when people try to re-direct the focus, as Gant is always trying to do.
Good luck Wayne.
I firmly believe that the only way to try to rectify this problem is with a change in management
to continue on as is is only going to lead to more of the same as what we have seen we have to become proactive instead of reactive as long as we are all of different opinions nothing will be accomplished if anyone has good ideas as to what can be done then lets hear them.
there are supposedly approx. 2200 investors in league yet only about 20 post on here they must have an opinion on what can be done.
I have it on pretty good authority that League is not on title for all of the properties assembled for Colwood. Anyone with the resources to do a title search, please do. It is faint hope, but some hope
What does it matter if League is on the title of the land or not? I’m not seeing how that will help anyone get their money back sooner. Please explain?
If they used land that to raise money into a deal that they aren’t on title for that is fraud.
SM: The only way you will get the investors together is through a class action suit. You can get the list in discovery. This has been repeated over and over in here. You won’t be able to change management unless you get a majority vote to do so. We all saw how that worked out when Gant held the proxy.
All they did was set a date for another hearing…next June or July
does anyone here know the status of the bcsc hearing
It is irrelevent and just another government waste of time and will have no bearing on our ability to retrieve any lost investment funds
what really strikes my ire is they have millions to produce a 500 page prospectus for the failed IPO bid and now have millions to ask Pricewaterhouse to do a in depth analysis of league and whats its worth etc but dont have a nickle to pay IPU unit holders
Paul, unfort the League now has a history of this having suspended IGW disbursements in June 12 – Others here more familiar with the DUNCAN LP can tell us what occured there
However from my understanding of REITS in North America it is NOT uncommon to suspend distro from time to time in certain economic conditions, and to raise or lower them just like co’s change or halt dividend payments, HOLLAWAY REIT did this 4 years ago, and I believe some very high profile REITS like RIOCAN have from time to time suspended and or lowered yields
And when this occurred, mgt fee’s were still necessary to manage the assets, whether it was a 3rd party doing so, or the trustees internally, or an in house mgt office, just saying
The difference however, is those REITS likely did not loan out 135M+ unsecured to other co’s also owned by the same trustees and or run by the same mgt co, they were likely just 1-2 sour ill timed investments, and eventually those REITS (in time) recovered
Perhaps others here have similar examples, but the grave concern here is that this REIT may never recover, or that our principles are unrecoverable, or that those unsecured loans will never be re-paid, and or as long as as ADAM n Co manage these assets, they do not seem very accountable to unit holders in terms of of any kind of unit appreciation, quite the opposite, IMO they surely need to be replaced, but how one does that and with whom is anybody’s guess
You have rights under the OM.
Enforce them.
The answer is simple:
Colwood is worth nothing, as the first and second mortgages are $26M+, which is higher than land value plus approved condo plans plus poured now rusting garage. A foreclosure sale by the lenders might yield $10-415M for a 10 acre site in Colwood in such a state, less than 50% of outstanding secured loans.
IGW REIT Equity is therefore also 0 as the $100M+ loan to Colwood cannot be collected.
The IGW REIT IPU’s, payable in priority over equity holders may have some value, namely the true shopping center asset value minus the mortgages. In this post here https://leaguereviewed.wordpress.com/2013/09/24/property-sales-in-2012-2013/ it shows a number of properties sold. Unclear to me what happened to that cash, or the $20M Timbercreek mortgage in second position. Maybe it was paid down.
With a change of management some of the remaining equity could be resurrected and cash paid to investors after a period of stabilization. All assets owned are shown in the preliminary prospectus (now cancelled) here https://leaguereviewed.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/league-prelim-prospectus-aug-2013.pdf.
Do us all a favour: do some digging into this propspectus, do some math, divide the remaining equity by the # of IPU units outstanding and show the cents per $ invested as value !
This of course assumes that there is no cross-collateral guarantee by IGW REIT for other LPs like Duncan or Fort St. John or elsewhere.
Jeff you say and i quote:AJ is also on the right track suggesting we all go back and read our OM’s – Mine specifically states that the pool funds will be used towards property that can produce a ‘minimum of 8-10% annual cash back’ and ‘pose no foreseeable risk of loss to our member-partners invested capital’
so I’ve always thought anyone who signed the same OM I did has a potential legal case in demanding Adam tell us how loaning 15M+ to Duncan and 100M+ to Collwood gave the IGW REIT a 8-10% return and posed to no forseeable risk to our capitol, but again no one here has concurred
1) I kind of know what your trying to say and agree
2) I never saw or was offered a OM that says pool funds will be used towards property that will produce a min of 8-10% annual cash back and pose no risk of lose to member capitol
where did you see and read that?
3) you dont sign a OM ? at least I was never asked to nor did? In fact I was nevered offered one nor read one in the begining @006/2007
Tell that to the BC SC. and the name of the sales person.
You don’t sign an OM. You sign a subscription agreement for units offered under certain terms as laid out in the OM.
the comments here are right we have to come together as a unit bickering amongst each other does not help our cause we will be much stronger united than any one of us would be alone does anyone know the costs associated with a class action suit as I really do not want to spend good money after bad
A class action suits only works if there is a collective unified legal issue with what the trustees of your investment did, be it, not fufill the OM (as AJ suggested), or as I suggested, made unusual loans, and or loans to 3rd parties where the same trustees existed and or as the BS securities suggested sold you an investment without revealing everything
The problem is we all bought different types of investments at different times with potentially different OM’s, so in reality, If I bought into the IGW REIT in 2006, my ability to sue could be based on substancially different grounds than someone who bought an IPU in 2011
Again you can’t sue someone because they lost your money, you can only sue them if they acted improperly or illegally in some form while losing your money
I have suggested, though I’m no expert, that any trustee such as Adam who loaned money to another LP or Co, unsecured, where he was also a trustee, may be improper if one can prove as a trustee he did so do the great disadvantage to you as a member-partner unit holder, and to his personal gain, not ours, like paying himself out a comission, but to date not a single person has concurred, so what do I know
AJ is also on the right track suggesting we all go back and read our OM’s – Mine specifically states that the pool funds will be used towards property that can produce a ‘minimum of 8-10% annual cash back’ and ‘pose no foreseeable risk of loss to our member-partners invested capital’
so I’ve always thought anyone who signed the same OM I did has a potential legal case in demanding Adam tell us how loaning 15M+ to Duncan and 100M+ to Collwood gave the IGW REIT a 8-10% return and posed to no forseeable risk to our capitol, but again no one here has concurred
There are big holes in every deal. I just don’t think that fighting them in civil court is going to do a thing. You will win in all likelihood, but what do you win? They will be LONG gone, and probably are already packing. Every deal is under water. They pay 10M a year in interest. Think of the legal fees, the advertising costs, the offices and employees!
People need to see the entire thing for what it is: two young guys that LIED about their experience and backgrounds, used some archaic marketing hyperbole, raised enough money for a down payment or two, leveraged the crap out of everything, created who knows how many LPs, got into some trouble with some very big players, and are now going down.
I may be wrong, but in my book it is criminal.
People need to realize that there is no money. There are only personal assets. I have suggested ways to go about possibly attaching those assets. You have to be able to PROVE that you were at worst lied to, and at best, misled. You have to be able to show the paper trail: what you invested in, when, when the money left your account, when you got the OM. You also may have some recourse if your ‘wealth manager’ (don’t you just love the pretentious names they give everything?) did not KNOW HIS OR HER CLIENT. You have to start doing your homework and get your proof lined up.
There are two regular posters in here who say that there is no case. I believe there is. I think that you can gather enough evidence to at least have their passports seized, and have the authorities start digging up what they have as far as holdings before everything is gone. But hey. I said this years ago.
So, Stuey Baby, it didn’t work. I am a very private person, and when you invaded that I hated it. But, guess what? I still have nothing to hide. Not like stuff you and mini you have to hide.
If someone can prove that they were lied to or that material aspects of the OM that was in place were incorrect when they made their investment then there may be an avenue worth pursuing. What I said is that someone trying to suggest that League was operated as a PONZI scheme or that there was fraudlent behaviour is facing an uphill battle as nobody, including yourself, has ever shown evidence to support that.
I didn’t invade anyone’s privacy, I posted a link to your public twitter account which detailed your own relationship with the promotion of high risk, money losing investments and lawsuits to which you were a defendant.
Retract that statement. Read more carefully before you make statements like that AGAIN. GANT
NO investor has ever lost money in one of my deals. So stfu,
at the very minimum they should lead by example and take zero renumeration until the investors have been paid what is owed them
ask any employee who works there what they would do if they were told they are not getting paid anymore there would be a stampede to the exits
I do not think come December it will be any different than now as far as any payment goes
yes we are all going to lose some money,but I think if management is fired there will be a better chance of recouping something
just my 2 cents(all I have left)
SM I understand what your saying and feeling but you have to realize these two are more than just “management” Its very much more complicated than you realize
Paul, it is this kind of communication that this forum does not need.
If you can’t communicate politely, then you are not going to help the cause.
Unfort whereveer and however you are invested in the League the story seem somewhat similar to what happened with the the Hollaway REIT circa 2009 to 2013, though this was a public REIT
It might be prudent to read up on what happended here an or look at other REITS that stopped paying distro and what become of them (if anyone has that kind of info)
With Hollaway, if I have the correct intel, they also made bad loans, to the tune of 11M, un- recovered but even though the distro was halted for 3 years, they still remain a co today with viable real estate assets, many hotels, etc
I’m just not sure if anyone got full value of their principle or sold for less, etc
I do know Hollaway became a private corporation earlier this year and was delisted on the TSX but 3 years later it is still a working REIT with some shareholder value, many people reccomending it as a solid investment
Wayne. YOU DO NOT MODERATE THIS FORUM. Keep your opinions to yourself. You have no idea how people are affected by this, and they can get VERY passionate. You are a little late to this party, Bud.
Thanks AJ for the suppport
AJ, you are truly not helping any investor. It would be very wise for you to stop your comments because I have seen no contribution of any value. Being combative, argumentative, and profane is not welcomed in any forum.
just what I need is some bleeding heart person worried about feelings and being polite !!well I dont think those two losers losing my 1.++ million as polite wayne ??so stick it in you ear will you please and thanks
Paul, see if you can pull title on the colwood properties. I don’t think they are on every title
Again, there is a group of you guys who are completely useless when it comes to constructive information. Insulting people will not get any support or cooperation when needed.
One small excert from Gant and Arruda,s ” Corporate Backgrounder” flyer given to each fish caught at time of sale:
In all our intentions and activities we will do for others,as we would have them do for us?
OK so right now I want both of them to sell all their propertys and take what ever cash they have left from and have taken from league and pay me back so i dont have to now sell my house.
well the writing is on the wall with their latest e mail
I am a league investor with a matured ipu that as of today has not been paid
the time is here for investors to become active and try to save what is left (if any) of their investment
can someone tell me if the unitholders can solicit a change in management?
how does one get an investors list
Ask for an investor list.
Change of management may help, but only if Colwood loan is written off as there is some value in the IGW REIT assets minus the loans minus the Timbercreek loan.
What is missing, and pardon me if I haven’t clearly seen it, is a single contact point for ALL investors to go comfortably, that has the purpose of determining an action plan that will ultimately be able to protect their investment funds.
I have seen the link to “Taylor, Veinotte, Sullivan”, but has this company been declared the company that will be used, or was this just a suggestion?
WAYNE?? there is no single contact that will quote: “Ultimately be able to protect their investment funds” What mushroom have you been hiding under??
I suggest you get a hold of the Carey Veinotte as he knows whats up.
Hi, would anyone have made a legal action against League and could give me a name of a firm or Lawyer in the Victoria BC Area? Or know of anyone I could contact hat may have?
no worries.
PS. I have been following the blog for a while and i have posted back on Dec 11/2012.
something has to be done all the investors are just being strung along no payments yet every month they get money from rents and partners reit this is YOUR money that they are using free of charge
IGW REIT has announced it is suspending IPU distributions until the IPO, which is delayed yet again until first quarter of 2014. This does not bode well for League’s reputation or confidence in any of their products.
Let’s not start making assumptions. I sent an e-mail to my rep this morning, just as you had sent one to yours last week. this was the latest info i got, i just figured it would be good to share it with anyone interested.
Confirmed, distributions are not being made to anyone this quarter. Suggestion is no distributions will be made till the new year, which would mean no fourth quarter distribution either.
Quote from the announcement, “As we approach the payment date for the first quarterly distribution I regret to inform you it is not possible to make the payment at this time.”
My recommendation is to begin immediate legal action, without any hesitation. The group that has been posting constantly and infighting, as correct as they were, are not the right people to do this because they cannot contain/control themselves.
I have read most of their posts with great disgust as to offering anything constructive.
Ok just seems odd with everyone here posting for over two years that the the league was in trouble and likely to fail and you suddenly show up a few hours before they announce no more distributions.What really picks my ass is they seem to have millions to write a 500 page BS prospectus that gets them no where and now I wounder how many millions it will cost to hire Price waterhouse and just what the hell good that will do anyone. is anyones guess
It is this kind of response that very likely turns everyone off.
There is no point and gains or contributes nothing to the cause.
Can confirm that a friend with money in IPUs was told yesterday that there is no distribution coming September 30 and public filing not until January 2014.
Solid, see if you can get your lawyer to do a title search on all of the Colwood properties. I don’t think League is on all of them. The addresses are in the OM
Vancouver – The Executive Director of the British Columbia Securities Commission has issued a notice of hearing alleging that a B.C. corporation and its two directors promoted the sale of a Real Estate Investment Trust (REIT) without proper disclosure.
The notice alleges that between September 2010 and June 2012, League Investment Services Inc. (LISI), a B.C. corporation registered in all provinces as an exempt market dealer, promoted the sale of IGW Real Estate Investment Trust (IGW REIT) securities through its website, brochures and its Blue Book of Real Estate Syndication. IGW REIT owns commercial properties in Ottawa, Cornwall, Hamilton, Prince Albert, and Victoria. IGW REIT has about 2,200 investors, who as of June 19, 2013 had invested approximately $290 million.
Adam Gant and Emanuel Arruda, both of whom are B.C. residents, through their family trusts, own 100% of LISI. They are also its officers and sole directors. Gant is LISI’s Ultimate Designated Person, and Arruda is in charge of LISI’s investor relations activities. Gant and Arruda are also trustees of IGW REIT, and Gant is the President of IGW REIT.
IGW REIT is managed by League Assets Corporation (LAC), which earns management fees based on the sale of IGW REIT securities by LISI. In 2010, IGW REIT paid management fees of $7.8 million to LAC.
Gant and Arruda, through their family trusts, also own 100% of LAC and are its officers and sole directors. Gant is CEO and Arruda is President and Co-Chairman of LAC.
BCSC staff contends that while promoting the sale of IGW REIT securities through its website, brochures, and Blue Book, LISI failed to disclose that its owners and sole directors—Gant and Arruda—are also trustees of the issuer IGW REIT (whose securities LISI sells) and are the owners, officers, and the sole directors of LAC, IGW REIT’s management company.
The notice alleges that by recommending an investment in IGW REIT securities without disclosing its relationship or connection to IGW REIT and LAC, LISI breached securities laws that prohibit a registered firm from recommending a security of a connected issuer. Gant and Arruda, as the sole directors of LISI, authorized, permitted or acquiesced in LISI’s contraventions, and therefore also breached securities laws.
These allegations have not been proven. Counsel for the Executive Director will apply to set dates for a hearing into the allegations before a panel of commissioners on September 17, 2013 at 9:00am.
The B.C. Securities Commission is the independent provincial government agency responsible for regulating trading in securities within the province. You may view the notice of hearing on our website http://www.bcsc.bc.ca by typing Adam Gant, Emanuel Arruda, League Investment Services Inc. or 2013 BCSECCOM 169 in the search box. Information regarding disciplinary proceedings can be found in the Enforcement section of the BCSC website.
Please visit the Canadian Securities Administrators’ Disciplined Persons List for information relating to persons disciplined by provincial securities regulators, the Investment Industry Regulatory Organization of Canada (IIROC) and the Mutual Fund Dealers Association (MFDA).
For media inquiries, please contact Richard Gilhooley, media relations, 604-899-6713. For public inquiries, please call 604 899 6854 or 1 800 373 6393 (toll free).
Alert all investors : B.C. Securities Commission wants hearing on allegations against Victoria investment firm The B.C. Securities Commission wants a hearing to look into allegations Victoria-based League Investment Services broke securities law when it was promoting the sale of shares in a real estate investment trust (REIT).
I wish i was wrong too, solid, but it’s not looking good. you’ll hear all about it in the next day or so, keep an eye on your inbox.
seeing as “KAM” has never posted here before and is in the know i will assume hes part of the G and Mini G party
KAM?? I sure hope your wrong as this isz what i was just told about a week ago when asked if they were to be honored
:
Subject: Re: IPU distributions
Hi xxxxxxxxx
I have not heard anything to the contrary and would expect that the distributions will be paid as scheduled.
Thanks,
John
John Wallace | Vice President, Wealth Management | LEAGUE Investments Services Inc
It’s true. I just received and e-mail from League announcing that they have cut our IPU’s distributions which they owed us from July 2013 until whenever. We all know what that means.
just found out that league is stopping all distributions on IPU’s as well. The payment which was supposed to be coming sept 30th is NOT.
I’m done. If people are still stupid enough to invest in League, so be it. I won’t be here to help anyone any more.
OK your call. I think most people that read your information will be heeding it Iam sure
it,s much appreciated by most all league investors.Like I said earlier i wish i had read your posts 2 years ago and not 9 months ago.Good luck
It is nobody’s business! It is also not pertinent to this discussion! Give me your names so I can search for lawsuits!!!
Why? I have nothing to hide, or I wouldn’t use my real name. Period.
well what are the lawsuits all about is all were asking? Could very well be bogus like the one Gant and arruda launched against you?
Well then, maybe he will give us his real name so we can look up his history as well. Why not? What is he hiding. and was does he have against me?
PERHAPS you should form a rebuttal to his accusation also?
QUOTE:
So you are saying that for years now someone has been creating accounts and websites with your name and picture and pretending to be you? What about the lawsuits against Allison Barber on CSO over the past few years? Are they all made up as well?
Stuart is a League shill. Let’s not respond to him any more.
AJ I absolutely disagree with you on this one.Stuart is just another independent poster
same as all are.just my opinion.
Stuart Little says:
September 22, 2013 at 6:13 pm
League uses money raised from new investors to fund its investments. It then uses income/revenue from those investments to pay its unitholders.
Pretty hard to pay unitholders when you put over 120 million in NON paying, non revenue producing investments such as Colwood and duncan etc
Every one of those investments was paying interest to IGW. Now the interest may have been re-invested or accrued but interest was still being paid and accounted for.
Stuart???? Are you really that stupid or think Iam that stupid? Colwood is technically on paper(league paper) being charged interest .that is correct.It is being so called accrued as they(colwood) have no income and therefore no means of payment.
In the meantime league has sold lets say 100 million in IPU units that vary in interest from say 7-9%. See the problem??. 100 million loan from IGW REIT to colwood at 10% but no cash is paid and 100 million in IPU units that require monthly distribution payments(now quarterly yet to be seen)where does that money come from? the way i see it only if they sell more promisary notes,ipu units etc and that aint happening
Not arguing with you on that point Solid. There is a fine line being split here but as far as I can tell it is perfectly legit. If we don’t like the rules then we should lobby to change the rules.
Stuart?The idea that its totally legit is not an avenue i was pursuing.Its the fact that we as league investors never invested with this high risk intention nor were we informed when we layed our money down that the league was high risk.IN FACT I WAS ASSURED it was ultra low risk and that my money was safe using their investment stratagies. READ the BLUE BOOK and READ the CORPORATE BACKGROUNDER? READ the Corporate PHILANTHROPY/SOCIAL RESPONSIBILITY booklets wrtitten and produced by Gant and Arruda I never agreed with AJ that league was or is a ponzi BUT when u look at the ultra confusing lineup of identitys and companys used in the total league line up, The rediculous fees and exspence charges along with the old way of reevaluating and taking fees on fees ,fees for buying and fees for selling etc etc one can not help wonder out loud that there may be some intention along that line.Just the fact that they keep taking investor money and putting it at huge risk by lending it to seemingly failing enterprize,s(colwood) shows very badley in my opinion.Anyway you and that goof ball Jeff want to look at things the league investors are in big big trouble the way i see things.
Unfort I think both you and AJ have completly missed the point
Neither Stuart or I (or others) are defending the league structure, loans, investments, or results
We are simply pointing out many of your accusation(s) are wildly unfounded
It’s not helping the credibility factor of other claims you are making that might in fact be spot on
That the 2 of you keep insisting that you know it all isn’t helping your case on-line
Neither are the insults and tempur tantrums
Stuart, I, (and others) may absolutley agree with you (or not) that the unsecured loans (at first glance) are bad investments and there is an argument to be made that they benefit the self interest of the trustees and the mgt co, not the investors themselves, but to keep insisting that is so, one needs proof, you cannot just keep saying it is so, not provide evidence, and then have a meltdown if someone disagrees or punches a hole in the evidence as you did with your claim of excessive mgt fee’s (not proved) and that no one has ever made money investing in the league (un-correct)
I happen to agree with you that the construction loans are a much higher risk investment that I was led to believe was being used with my funds but if Stuart can show us that the League has not done anything fraudulent, that the risks and type of investments were laid out in writing and we signed off on it, then ya know he might have a point, one can not just keep dismissing it
I insist the removal of all short term IPU’s last June 12 was (if not fraudulent), a slap in the face of longtime IGW Reit investors, and a backhanded move by the League to force current investors to keep their principles in even longer term investment(s) in an attempt not to pay redemption(s) – Maybe you agree or disagree, if you disagree, does that make you a goof, hardly, it just means I was not able to make my case
Get it?
JEFF
I have nothing to do with AJ or her court deal or her XXXXX accusations NONE.I never said that nor agreed with her with that at all.What I agreed with her is this FACT.LEAGUE is a BAD investment.Ray Charles could see this.AS THINGS stand NO ONE will make money on their league REIT or IPU investments.as things stand.FACT is FACT Iam out (lost) 450 k on a failed LP.FACT if distributions cease and league fails(looks bad as is ) I will lose 1.2 million in IPU units.these are FACTS. MORE FACTS:
I have ZERO faith left in league and scared shitless they will fail me.
I have no argument with you that DUNCAN was a horrible investment and that the unsecured loan from IGW to Duncan has devasted that REIT
I empathize with your loss, that sucks
I also think the possibility exists (but I do not have proof) that the League Mgt co broke its own code of ‘stringent qualifications’ from their OM when they invested in both Duncan and Collwood which does not pass their own smell test of a ‘8-10% annual cash return’ and posed ‘no forseeable risk to member partners capitol’
I am suggesting the Mgt Co could be potentially be held legally responsible for these poor investment(s), both because they may have contravened the OM, were unsecured (which is crazy but if it’s industry standard my argument would not pass the muster), and because they potentially benefited the mgt co and trustees more than the actual member-partners, which I am not alleging, I’m just saying I’d be interested in other investor’s insight if they feel there is a valid arguement here
However any of what I am saying is possible, which it may not be, it would not help any Duncan investors, it would absolutley help IGW one’s, should one conclude the 135M loans were in any way ‘improper’, or ‘unusual’, or a case of ‘mis-management’ beyond poor judgement
I also cannot re-assure you that the IPU will get keep getting distro and or if if you will ever see the principle, I will tell you that at least you’re currently getting distro and have been since June 12, you are way ahead of those invested in DUNCAN and or the IGW REIT (like myself) who are getting zip, and since we have not heard of anyone getting stiffed on their IPU redemption, for now you’re safer than most of us, but again I empathise with your fear(s)
I agree, the way things are now, I could not understand how anyone could invest in any League product, some will argue the Partners REIT or one/two of LP’s is doing well, right or wrong, and or that if it ever goes public, your converted Class A shares should be sellable, it’s the common shares that could take a bath if by then the League’s balance sheet does not look better, but what do we really know what is, what will, happen to all this, none of us can really say for sure
I undertand many investors are frustrated and for good reason(s)
I never use that account either. God you’re gullible. Or Gant. One or the other
So you are saying that for years now someone has been creating accounts and websites with your name and picture and pretending to be you? What about the lawsuits against Allison Barber on CSO over the past few years? Are they all made up as well?
And you didn’t just delete the account that you never use?
And if they are raising money in Hong Kong to pay IPU units holders, what is that called again?
League uses money raised from new investors to fund its investments. It then uses income/revenue from those investments to pay its unitholders. Now you may say that this is a scheme and that the money is really only flowing from new unitholder to old but it is a fine line and the law isn’t on your side. By stating that League is running a PONZI scheme you are calling them crooks as running a PONZI is illegal. In order to call someone a crook and get away with it then the law has to be clearly on your side. Relying the venacular use of a term instead of the legally defined use is a risky defense, even more so given that you are choosing to represent yourself. This is why the judge has stated that the success of your defence is improbable.
I have nothing personal against you or Rachelle. I think that you are fighting a battle for the wrong reason and acting on an inaccurate view of the legal system. You want justice for League investors yet justice isn’t what a court gives you. The judge iwill only rule on the letter of the law and you will only be allowed to enter evidence and ask questions that relate to the issue at hand.
I really don’t understand what you are doing in here, pontificating. You said you got your money out. Then what is your business in here?
Really, at least I was an investor!
Found this twitter feed that sums everything up. History of wild accusations, board and forum closures and high risk money making ventures of your own.
Harris Fraser is a tiny financial advising firm (12,000 clients). IMHO the purchase was another waste of money.
I agree with AJ on that one
here is a tidbit to think about
IGW REIT had a net loss of just under $40,000,000 in 2012 – League Assets took in over $18,000,000 (not all from IGW REIT though).
so Jeff(aka noitall) where is the distribution money coming from?
“expanding into the Asian market’s billions of investors is a waste of money”
what would you consider a wise investment?
Well, let me see. If I had almost $300,000,000 in investor money (free money right now) I think I would leave town.
All one has to do is do as AJ suggested here about 2 years ago.Run the numbers.Even back then they did not compute and I started to worry big time.I lost 450K in Duncan LP. I then started really looking at the numbers and realized things were not as one was lead to beleive. But I personally believed i would only hurt my own cause by admiting here that things were going downhill fast and did not want to cause panic.I was still recieving my monthly distributions but I thought that the IPO deal was pie in the sky but the offer i was shown looked almost too good to be true(you know how those work out)and knowing a lot about markets I wondered how this deal would work out but thought it was my last hope so i voted for the public offering.Then I start reading about the colwood debt owed League reit and the money REIT had also lent Duncan and the millions lost on the Condo convertion fiasco among other things and the huge Fees and charges taken over the last 4-5 years.I Looked at income verses debt and thought what person in their right mind would buy a $25 share in this mess.
Then comes the BCSC fiasco and now the prospectus rejection and more lawsuits and most likely no more IPU payments.I really hope iam dead wrong on that one but where will the money come from>?
The court confirmed nothing of the sort, and you should stop saying that it did. The court said that a jury needed to decide whether or not they operate a XXXXXX, and therefore, their injunction to stop me from saying that was DISMISSED. YOU don’t think they defrauded investors. Other people certainly do, and we shall let a jury decide. NOT YOU.
[27] The defendants’ response is not complicated: given the First Leaside Group proceedings in Ontario (of which there was no evidence), audited financial statements are not necessarily evidence of viability; the defendants’ use of the term “Ponzi” was meant in a vernacular sense, not in accordance with some strict legal definition such as was discussed in the Mazzucco case; and, “we should have our chance to prove that what we say is true”. The defendants did not present any argument in relation to the other defences
[29] I am satisfied, on the evidence, that the plaintiffs’ investment vehicle cannot
fairly be described as a “Ponzi scheme” as that term is defined in Mazzucco.
Indeed, the defendants concede that they will be in trouble if that is the definition that the court ultimately accepts
Mazzucco is the latest Supreme Court opinion related to Ponzi schemes and definitions. It is the test that any judge will use. .
I agree with Stewart, AJ:
Here’s what Judge Grauer said in his opinion
[19] In this case, there can be no doubt that the defendants published the words in question, and that the words concerned one or more of the plaintiffs. I also conclude without hesitation that words of the sort quoted above, referring to the REIT as a “Ponzi scheme” and the like, would in today’s context tend to lower the reputation of the plaintiffs in the eyes of reasonable persons. For a jury to conclude otherwise would, in my respectful view, be perverse.
[20] In the circumstances, it follows that the words are manifestly defamatory of the plaintiffs.
[29] I am satisfied, on the evidence, that the plaintiffs’ investment vehicle cannot fairly be described as a “Ponzi scheme”
[35] “There is no evidence whatsoever before me that either Mr. Gant or Mr. Arruda could fairly be described as fraudsters, criminals or thieves..”
Whatever.
Wow. The folks from League must be reading this and having a chuckle.
Enough of the name calling, we are all on the same side. Many if not most of League’s LPs and REITs are high risk investments. The exempt market needs a serious overhaul as companies should not be allowed to raise so much money from so many investors without far more oversight and regulation. League does not operate a PONZI scheme as now confirmed by the court. There may have been misrepresentation but novody has demonstrated anything that rises to the level of fraud.
Lets get on with discussing the progress (or lack of) and merits (or lack of) these projects and how people can coordinate their activities (if they want) to try and get their money back.
I personally have never thought or said it was a ponzi? I dont think i have ever said there is a fraud either? BUT what i have said many times and say it again.WHAT the league boys promised and what is transpiring are two seperate deals and there in lies the argument about this whole concerning mess.
THATS why I say again get a copy of the CORPORATE BACKGROUNDER and read every word and then one will begin to see the difference of why I invested then and why its now become my worst nitemare.
I agree with Stuart
I do not see any fraud
Stuart is also likely bang on about the League’s mgt fee’s being close to industry standard(s)
I was also correct about Solid Fiction
Since June 2012 he/she has been getting a monthly distro
That’s X points on 1.2M
Nice!
However obviously Solid Fiction is very worried he/she will never see the principle back
I feel the same way, I’m sure we can all empathize, it’s a large amount
I know a family that combined has more than that invested
They are equally concerned
But does anyone actually know if any IPU’s upon term ending have not been paid out?
Do we have data on that?
At first glance, it’s the LP’s or the IGW REIT that are in trouble here
At first glance, the IPU’s (in comparison) seem like a much safer place to be
Especially if the league goes public
I am told the priority pubic shares at $25.00 should be an easy sell
It’s the $10.00 common shares that will fluxuate, maybe wildly
Look I applaud AJ for standing up for what she believes but IMO AJ and others are going to have to show backup to support their allegations, or they will lose their case
I would strongly suggest that if the accusation can’t be backed up on-line here (which is a nifty place to test em) you don’t bring it up in front of a judge but that’s for AJ to decide, good luck
They will be long gone before this ever goes to trial. I don’t understand how someone as intelligent as you appear to be cannot read the numbers, or how in the hell you think they can take this steaming turd public.
My ‘intelligence’ forces me to ask a pertinant question
Has any investor in an IPU not been paid out upon maturity?
Thx
Where does the money come from to pay IPUs? Are they raising any new money? Not much. are they going public? Not now; or likely ever. To pay the unitholders they have to make some money. They have sold three properties at a loss. I suppose they can try to do that again and at least have some cash. There is no money. They just took another loss on a Victoria property. When you are paying $10M a year in interest on one property it is hard to pay unitholders. Oh right, they are in foreclosure on that one too.
You avoided the question so I’ll answer it for you
The correct answer is – IPU’s holders principle have been paid out and continue to be paid out
However you think, by looking at the League numbers, in the future they will have trouble paying out the IPU’s, correct?
Do you have any independant analysis that could corroborate your findings?
You are evading the real situation here.Look at the situation.Zero to almost zero new money coming in.REIT units have lost considerable value since the BS inflated values to under 75 cents.Distributions discontinued on those units.Over 130 million of investors money gone and or in limbo(colwood and Duncan).Many lawsuits against league and Gant/Arruda. BCSC charges pending.Distributiuons on IPU changed to 1/4 from monthly yet to be proven come sept 30 2013.( new idea not tested)The amount of total gross income as of now does not cover the amount of Gross debt payments required monthly. IPU shares will be lucky to be sold at 1/2 of 25.00 if they ever hit the market and that is doubtfull as of right now.Chances of any IPU retraction or termed out IPU being repaid in present day? about nil %
Thats how I view things
Quote from Jeff:I am told the priority pubic shares at $25.00 should be an easy sell
REALLY JEFF and what IDIOT told you that based on what theory???
your so called wealth manager?
Af far as anyone knows, League is raising millions through their Harris acquisition. None of that money would need to be reported in Canada.
I want to bring everyone back to basics here please:
GET a copy of the original League issued “CORPORATE BACKGROUNDER” printed in or around september 2008. READ EVERY WORD and then come here and try to defend these guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
its two different worlds as you will soon see
jeff your a fucking moron. please dont engage in conversation here as you are a loser whom has his head so far up his arse you will never see daylight.You sound to me like you have no money or maybe 5K or something rediculous like that.Dont come on here with your condesending remarks neither please.I have not made any so called wild accusations you creep.I know exactly what the league is invested in,where the money came from and where it went and it ain,t a pretty picture.For some asshole to come on here and talk like you know something makes me laugh(not really).I have forgot more about reits then you will ever know.
Here is what i know I have lost 1.2 million fucking dollars in IPU units you asshole and its because T2FL ers spent it recklessly and wantingly in my personal opinion and i ain,t happy.If they would have done what they promised when i invested we would not be here crying the blues.You yap about people made money?? show me an example you moron. Give me a name and project that INVOLVED REIT UNITS and or IPU units that the customer made money and got 100% capitol back in the last 3 or 4 years.Now fuck off and leave me alone
Oh Vey
Another temper tantrum
Off your meds or what?
And another ridiculous accusation and bombastic silliness regarding other people’s investment
Wrong again
0-5 and you do not get a hit soon you’ll be sent off the minors to refresh your game
Though how does a foul mouthed sailor bully get his/her game together?
Especially when they think the amount of money they have invested is more than anyone else so that makes them ‘precious’
Is there anything you say or write here that is accurate?
AJ I hope this hot head full of hot air isn’t helping you support your court case
If so, unfort you are going to lose, badly
By the way Stephen, not everyone is in the same situation with their league investment
Those in IPU’s have ‘priority’ and continue to get paid quarterly
IF they get their principle back when the IPU comes to term they make off like bandits
They have not (nor have been) in the que
Should this whole thing fail they also likely get paid first
Which is why anyone who had an IPU and walked away with their principle did great
Ditto anyone who was an early IGW investor and redeemed
That’s a fact backed by math
Those who refute that are in denial
Point being there are some people on this blog up in arms about some of the business dealings of the League, rightfully so, what seemed like a good investment may end up to be a lousy one but please be aware many are still actively getting paid (even people who continually post nightmare scenerio’s here) while others are not
?????????????????Those in IPU’s have ‘priority’ and continue to get paid quarterly
IF they get their principle back when the IPU comes to term they make off like bandits
They have not (nor have been) in the que
Should this whole thing fail they also likely get paid first??????????????
Actively paid you say?we shall see if they make the “VERY FIRST” Quarterly payment come sept 30 (I sure am hoping they do) and prioritys do not matter if the league files chapter 13 which as things stand is entirely possible considering the approximately 130 million wasted in unsecured most likely unrecoverable and definately no income moneys spent on Colwood,Duncan and the failed condo convertion back east among other smaller losing projects.Look at the mounting lawsuits against the league? why are these happening?Look at the discontinuation of REIT distributiuons.It is because league does not have enough income to satisfy debt repayment requirements.
Jeff,stewart,DT and the lot of you can have your opinion and can think and post what you want just the same as I can and AJ can and my opinion based on what I have read,what I have been told by league and by the obnoxious amount of money I stand to or have lost(depends on who and what one beleives) by investing the the league I say AJ is pretty much on the money in her posts and blogs regarding Gant and Arruda(lisi) and whatever other rock they hide under
I think if any of the people like jeff,stuart,DT had any money of any significance invested they would be blowing a different horn let me tell you.
You are incorrect about no-one have made any money on these investments
You are incorrect about blowing a different horn
You are also incorrect about other people’s levels of investments in the League
In just 2 posts you are 0-3 yet you are still swinging for the fences
That does not mean you are not perhaps correct about many other points
I suspect you may well be
However your track record, like Adam’s and Co’, today anyway, speaks for itself
You’ve struck out!
Is 9.2M a year to manage this amount of real estate ‘excessive’?
You seem to think it is
You may be correct
However if you do not provide some data to show how and why it’s excessive other than just saying it is, the assertion is no different to the 3 you made today, which turned out all to be be innacurate
Show us why it’s excessive and I would be more than happy to concur
I’d love to see you hit the ball out of the park
If not perhaps someone else would like a turn at bat and can provide that data
Again your pushing your opinion as fact and my opinion as non.Declare what you have invested in league ? I have many times.
I have been in the league since 2006 and and will have made money IF I had my principle returned which looks about 110% improbable about now same as the other 2200 investors
Its 9.2 million per year PLUS a lot of hidden fees and exspences BUT they have not made a net profit of 9.2 million so where did they get this money? If the 9 million lets say 10 million was net profit we would have all made money and no one would care
The thing that amazes me IF your not a LIAR and not just simply BEEKING off here to cause desention(which I beleive is your sole agenda)and really have a substantial league investment surely after now realizing your about to loose your entire investment WHY would you stand up for these people. So declare your true investment or shut the f–k up
Was that a tempur tandrum?
I’m sorry you and I and others stand a chance to lose our investment(s) and I’m all in favour of a discussion of how we can both warn people to stay clear of this investment, and recoup ours, and or force Adam n Co out and take over our investment/real estate, but making wildly false accusations, personal accusations to boot, without backing them up, isn’t the way to do it
Nor is having tempur tantrums, flinging insults, accusing anyone of being a liar (that’s more than ironic), and being a bully and telling people to shut the fuck up just because they have a differing viewpoint, or are able to easily challenge your assertions, all of which so far are inaccurate
With regard to the IGW REIT it likely pay’s it’s management fee’s from the profits and or rents from the properties, somebody else here who know how REITS work could chime in on this however it would be prudent if someone here could obtain a balance sheet and a profit n loss statement and explain to to us in more accurate detail, rather than in deflamtory sarcastic rants, how exactly the IGW REIT sustains paying the current mgt fee, exactly what are the loans are out there, and to whom, the terms, what income comes from what properties, etc, the debt, each mortgage, etc
I think most of us only know basic information of how the IGW REIT works and from what I can tell from the posts, very few of us know much about REITS period, since no one can come forward and say what other REITS pay in terms in mgt fee’s
I do know H&R made headlines recently about it’s decision to severe their current Mgt contract and bring everything in-house and they were talking about 22M
Regardless, that would be the first step in better understanding the investment better and how some of could come together and challenge Adam n Co on both their past decisions and moving forward how to run it better for the investors, assuming of course, this thing is never going public, and no one is actually going to be able to redeem their principle publically or privately anytime soon
Or we can just continue making wild accusations and having tantrums and doing nothing hope this thing goes public and somebody is willing to buy us all out and we’re done with it
Again, why should I do your homework for you?
But, here is an answer;
Base of analysis and page numbers are here http://www.bcsc.bc.ca/eservices/Inc/ViewDoc.asp?DocNum=V7G3K6IBK7W1M7KEN6Q1J7PDV7K3&s=False
on page 151: fees of $5.2m in 2009 and over $7.8m in 2010 .. on revenues of about $25m in 2010 and $15m in 2009 (see page 157). Almost 50% of revenue in fees?
League is entitled to fees above and beyond a percentage of revenue. League gets fees for raising money as well as a percentage of the overall portfolio value. These are all standard. If you need to raise money then you need to pay someone. If you need to manage property or money then you have to pay someone for that too. You have not provided any evidence that the fees charged are unreasonable. You may not like that League are the ones charging the fees but again it was fully disclosed along with the actual fees in the OM.
quote:
Stuart Little says:
September 20, 2013 at 7:56 pm
I just looked at the first OM I grabbed for IGW dated May 20th, 2012 and it clearly states in capital letters that the loans to Colwood are unsecured. You keep making statements that are patently false which undermines your message.
YES, CONTRAVENING THE PREVIOUS OM, THE ONE THAT INVESTORS RELIED UPON.
The League premise in 2006 was simple. Buy distressed commercial real estate with leverage, put some lipstick on it and flip it for a profit. 2008 caught up with them and leverage meant losses when values declined or flattened out. Those who invested in 2006 and got out in 2008/2009 made money. You said that League has 70 LPs and that 4 of them have failed. Lets hope that the others work out for investors.
I DIDN’T SAY FOUR HAD FAILED. IN FACT I THINK MOST HAVE FAILED.
Vibrant Victoria, the Canadian Financing Forum, Financial Webring and other blogs all shut down or suspended discussions on League after you and others refused to stop calling Gant and Arruda criminals and League lawyers started sending letters. Apparently they weren’t as eager as you to spend money to defend themselves against defamation charges.
WHY ARE YOU THE ONLY ONE IN HERE WHO KEEPS SAYING THE WORD CRIMINALS??? WHO ARE YOU??? IF YOU ARE WHO I THINK YOU ARE, YOU JUST WASTED $200,000 ON SUING ME. PRETTY EMBARRASSING, NO ADAM?
Jeff, your premise implies that the business had merit from the start . While the concept is sound (purchasing commercial properties that are undervalued, doing the WORK necessary to create value, and distributing the profits to investors), but the execution was a monumental failure. Why? Because they were so busy creating new LPs (more than 10 a year) to attract new money that they didn’t bother to do the work. They were so busy trying to figure out new ways to hide what they were actually doing that they didn’t have time to do the work. They were so busy ‘word-smithing’ and obfuscating that they got in over their heads, really quickly. They eventually had to cut distributions…it was just a matter of time. They hired a CEO to try to regain some credence after BCSC placed CTOs on the IGW REIT. He lasted less than a year. Every bit of good talent they attracted eventually saw through the bull and left. I was commenting on a different blog (Vibrant Victoria) back then (2007) and it is interesting to note that all of the old posts are still there. Eventually the admin stopped allowing any discussion as to the financial situation that ‘Colwood Corners’ was in.
Here is my contention: they were never in the business of creating value for investors. They were ALWAYS in the business of getting paid outrageous fees, creating the ILLUSION of being honourable and all that crap, and that the work necessary was never done. Look at Arrow Road. Look at Duncan. Look at Quadra Village, Colwood Corners, Ft. St. John.
They were not granted their injunction. I can say whatever I like about them from now until the verdict at trial. Big deal. There are still people who believe that there is some way out. People who don’t research and read the financials. People who think that they don’t have to go to an accountant or lawyer before getting into this scheme. People who are so desperate to make a return that they buy into the whole dirty mess.
They will go into receivership, mortgage holders will get paid out, sharks will circle and pick up the properties for pennies on the dollar, and investors will be up in arms screaming that securities should have stopped them.
And, while they are in receivership, they will continue to collect FAT FEES.
AJ, how then does the League operate any differently than say any brokerage firm on Bay St?
The way I see it, they both do everything they can to bring in new funds, they don’t really care about whether your portfolio rises or falls, it’s all about collecting fee’s, commissions, and kickbacks, no?
When one is getting a return, we just don’t care, that’s the truth, but the moment we are not, suddenly the fee’s, commissions, and kickback are always ‘outrageous’, but are they really?
If they are, please show us how they are, back it up with facts, that would be mega informative
to anyone who follows this blog and wants to know more about their investment
The difference is that brokerage firms on Bay St. are regulated. Go through the several OMs on file, and see what fees they take. You will, after YOU do the homework, agree that they are outrageous.
JEFF before you stick your foot in your mouth any further go READ the IPO prospectus
This gang has taken over 38 million in fees alone in the last 4 years never mind mcs charges and exspences etc etc etc.see page 18 and .I seriously doubt the league has actually made 38 million in net income in those 4 years
Jeff Cohen?? I think your extremely naive. Show me where any IPU or REIT unit holder has made money.The whole Idea of the REIT when I was Enticed to purchase was completely different than the direction they took.They are very high risk takers and very poor managers in my opinion.The million+ I gave them was not to used for ultra high risk ventures like colwood.
Also when one reads through the long involved OM and the lot the fees and exspences that they take are outrageous.As AJ and Ms Burube have pointed out here many times.This deal was not substainable once one actually really read the Om and the financials.and read the fees schedule
I may be naive but I’m also ‘balanced’ – Sorry you are incorrect, many of the early investors made money IF they sold out or IF one day they get their principle back – Simple math backs that up, similarily current IPO investors are making money IF they get their principle back
I can’t comment if the mgt fee’s are in fact ‘outrageous’ because someone here would have to show a comparison of what other REITS pay, I could say the same about the crazy $10.00 bank fee I’m charged everyday by my bank to receive wire transfer(s) or the excessive points they add on exchange rate(s), but at the end of the day every bank charges something similar, likely so do REITS to manage their assets, so while you may be correct that the League fee’s are high, you also could be very wrong
Where I agree with you is that I’m also wondering if there is a legal fallback with regard to the type of investments and loans the Mgt co made with regard to the IGW Pool, including that the investments exceeded what many thought was simply buying existing commercial real estate (not developing them from ground up) and if there is legal recourse if the loans they made for such bigger and riskier developments were not properly secured and or do not get paid back
I’m also wondering if there is a method by which the IGW pool investors (or a group of them) can getogether do a mgt review and or replace the existing mgt co if it deemed to have mis-managed the pool and or did not achieve a degree of ‘success’, or it can proven that their fee’s are higher than normal
The problem is getting the list of investors. There are a couple of avenues I have been pursuing, but so far, we are relying on people who have contacted us. That is why I think that a class action is useful, because we would be able to advertise more widely, and more people could be reached.
The co-mingling of funds, and the issue of unsecured loans between entities is critical. As far as I can find, the OMs state that “from time to time we may make SECURED loans”, which is patently not true.
Our trial date has not been set, but I can assure you that we will have a long list of discovery items, and I intend to make sure that the media is there. There is also the BCSC hearing next June.
I just looked at the first OM I grabbed for IGW dated May 20th, 2012 and it clearly states in capital letters that the loans to Colwood are unsecured. You keep making statements that are patently false which undermines your message.
The League premise in 2006 was simple. Buy distressed commercial real estate with leverage, put some lipstick on it and flip it for a profit. 2008 caught up with them and leverage meant losses when values declined or flattened out. Those who invested in 2006 and got out in 2008/2009 made money. You said that League has 70 LPs and that 4 of them have failed. Lets hope that the others work out for investors.
Vibrant Victoria, the Canadian Financing Forum, Financial Webring and other blogs all shut down or suspended discussions on League after you and others refused to stop calling Gant and Arruda criminals and League lawyers started sending letters. Apparently they weren’t as eager as you to spend money to defend themselves against defamation charges.
on 9/11
sent to the john doe address quite awhile back
Solidfiction we are all mad and frustrated but don’t take it out on the folks on this blog its not their fault.
You don’t respond to your emails, Solid. I still have had no answer to my query. There is no point is getting angry.
I check them every few hours every day no email from you? I was just there about 45 minutes ago??
Ok – so the IGW is a bad investment. I was in the retraction queue .. but was convinced (stupidly?) by Peter Loresnon – a guy at League, to switch over to the shares… which were “imminent” and could be sold immediately – to recoup my money. HAHAHAHAHAHA what a joke. The shares – such as they are – are no where near ready to go public, and then who knows what they will be wroth. Is there anything we can do? A class action? Obtaining default judgement? Push them into bankruptcy? I just want my money… I too have been without distributions for a year and a half… and now it appears there will be no capital returned either. I am fit to be tied, and want to know if a lawsuit – for failed contract or something would work. I will try anythign…
I suggest you email Rachelle directly, as she has begun the database. There are plenty of people coming forward. We will send out mass emails regarding any updates that we know about.
I need everyone to understand how much time and effort is going into this work, for which neither of us will make a red cent.
If League wins the temporary injunction (I will know at 10:30 am tomorrow) I will no longer post anything in here that could be considered defamatory. If I am disallowed to post at all, I will not post. I am confident that we will be able to exercise free speech.
I left a long post in here this morning, but I think that because it had a link in it, it is delayed. I don’t want to reiterate everything I wrote, because I am sure that it will eventually post, and that gets confusing.
I find it obsequious that Stuart keeps mentioning ‘rumours’ about construction financing coming in, and about the ease with which League et al will be able to re-apply for their IPO. It gives investors false hope, and makes me think that he has some sort of stake in the company. I hope that investors are going to get together, and act as a body against these guys.
The ONLY assets are their personal assets. Even if, as Mr. Cohen mentioned earlier, you could have them fired as General Partners in every deal, and could find good managers for every property, there is still no guarantee that there is any money in ANY of them.
You have to make an exact record of when you invested, what you RELIED UPON to make your decision, the exact date the money left your account, and the exact date you received the OM. You have to have something that shows that you were considered a ‘sophisticated investor’, what they asked you for, when they got it, and who you spoke with. If you had an outside investment adviser get you in, you have recourse.
Tomorrow morning we are going to find out what the judge has to say, and I am hopeful that it took him this long because he studied the company.
Sorry if I repeat myself. For Protea: we are developing a database of investors, and also have been working with two lawyers, and the link in the post is the email for Rachelle Berube at landlord rescue dot ca.
Thanks AJ.
How do we as investors stay in the loop on this stuff? I just get the occasional bits of info from these posts. If there is something collectively I need to be part of, how will I know the when and where etc.?
stay in the loop?? For christs sake man.I have told you many times here to email me as I have a top BC securitys lawyer ready to take these guys on for 30% plus costs.No body replys or seems interested?? what do u want a phucking nurse maid to hold your hand???? If you read every post here you will be in the loop as good as anyone else
try reading and researching as I have done and you will soon see your phucked financially
OK, chill. I came to this quite late and am trying to catch up so lighten up please….we are all in the same boat here and are all wanting justice and our capital back. I have not been notified of Rachelle’s email address. If anyone can provide it I am happy to join the class action.
Stephen,
Neither Rachelle or AJ are investors in any League LPs or REITs so I can’t see how they can be representative plaintiffs in any class action suit.
No one said we were investors. All we are trying to do is get people together. We will not be plaintiffs. Jesus, Stuey, give it a rest. You and all of the other investors are screwed. All I am trying to do is save new people from getting screwed. You contend that people get paid from the lift League creates; but they have created NO LIFT, so they rely on new investors. It is really that simple.
Thanks AJ as well as Rachelle you are both angels. yes I have joined the database and urge everyone concerned to contact Rachelle at Landlordrescue and add your information. Also good luck for tomorrow I know you will prevail.
I said ONCE that there were rumours that Colwood has been funded and then I said yesterday that I have not been able to confirm that rumour.
Honestly. If you guys actually believe that, go buy some more shares. That pile of crap will never go public. Never. If I can shoot it full of holes, imagine what a team of lawyers and accountants can do.
AJ no one here says its going to make the public venue for sure? we were just bantering back and forth about the refiling of the prospectus.I cant see this thing seeing the lite of day when its comes to going public but then look at all the gold,diamond,oil,etc companys that had nothing more than a pure BS prospectus and bull crap PR guys and they all go public.
That is not what BCSC told me. They told me they have to “start from scratch”.
AJ, you may well be 100% correct.Just relaying what my contact at league told me today.he said its stale dated and all there required to do is refile the same prospectus
Just passing on what was conveyed to me about this matter.Time will tell for sure
Starting from scratch and refiling the prospectus are the same thing. The difference being that he case officer assigned will likely be the same person who had previously worked with the file so the review process should be faster.
Also for whats its worth The IPO Prospectus was NOT rejected.It was Stale Dated and all that,s required is a simple refile of the said document.
Yes AJ, but again that may not be illegal – You will agree someone does have to manage the real estate, and likely charge for that supervision, it’s just that no-one seems to be able to hold the league accountable for their bad decision(s), and or fire them, and so you get the sports equivalent of an MLSE or the Buffalo Bills, a franchise in dissaray without even the ability to make a GM or coaching change
I never ever really thought Gant and Arruda did anything of criminal nature but you can sue people for civil issues and there are lots of those here.Lots
In criminal law, fraud is intentional deception made for personal gain or to damage another individual; the related adjective is fraudulent, and verb is defraud. Fraud is a crime and a civil tort at common law, though the specific criminal law definition varies by legal jurisdiction. Defrauding people or entities of money or valuables is a common purpose of fraud.(Wikopedia). Please refer to Grizzly litigation.
If the unproven allogations in the Grizzly litigation were found to be true, do you think that they could cross the border between civil/criminal law?
As far as I know, Grizzly has not filed any criminal complaint for fraud. Grizzly has filed a civil complaint for a debt owed. As far as I know nobody has ever alledged fraud, filed a complaint for fraud nor had League ever been investigated for fraud.
I would ask that the people who keep suggesting that there is fraud provide at least some evidence to support that.
Stuart, please review ‘Misrepresentation’ paragragh in Grizzly file. I have not alleged this – Grizzly and their legal council has. Do you not consider this alleged or compained about? As this is a touchy subject, I will leave it at that.
Misrepresentation is a civil legal term. It does not have to be intentional. All that need have happened (and I am not saying that is what happened in the Grizzly case) is that someone wrote down the GST number incorrectly and that would be misrepresentation. My point is that is a FAR CRY from fraud which implies an intentional act.
People tend to throw around terms carelessly on this board.
I think some people tend to generalize a lot on this forum.
Because the term ‘fraudulent’ was used in the suit, I thought his meant that they were alleging fraud. I apologize if that is not what the legal defininition is. I am naive in many ways (including in the field of law) and thus, I may have made inferences or misleading statements that I regret. With so few people contributing, It is easy to forget that this is a public forum for all to see. My apologies to Adam Gant, Emanuel Arruda and League Assets for making comments that may have inferred wrongdoings. You are both remarkable success stories. It is in my best interest to encourage you to use your management expertise to lead League Assets (League Financial Partners) to a profitable future. I will refrain from posting any further comments to this site in the future. Thank you
BG – I understand that you want to pull out of this conversation; after all, I am being sued by G and Mini-G, and it is no fun. I am not pulling out.
I don’t understand why you think that either of them have management expertise. Neither of them had ANY, and their resumes only reflect their time at League. Everything else is completely and provably BOGUS. They have MIS-managed the entire convoluted mess so badly that every deal is either in foreclosure, deeply in red ink, or paying $10,000,000 a year in interest.
They have each made millions and millions of dollars. Your money. For being terrible managers.
AJ, let’s be fair, I’m not sure EVERY deal is a failure nor as someone recently suggested that each property is worthless – When I initially invested in the IGW REIT I was under the impression the pool was for buying existing commercial properties, all of which if managed well, could be very profitable – Were they managed well? Perhaps not, our shareholder value has not increased, but in fact decreased, but if you count the disbursements, many of us are still ahead IF we ever see our principle – So I’m not sure any of us can say with certainty they were managed well or mis-managed except at first glance the Leaque did appear adept at getting financing, filling retail vacancies, running the properties, (valuation of fee’s paid for those service(s) and accountability for performance nothwithstanding) and those properties today should still have commercial value
Where I agree with you is that the League seems to have failed miserably with regard to buying land and developing their own commercial properties, at least in the short term, the capital required to fianance these developments appears to have dragged down the entire value of the REIT, forcing the IGW to suspend distributions, and forcing the League to appear ponzi-like in terms of doing everything they can to avoid paying back principle, funds of which they just do not presently have
My question is, did the initial OM’s restrict the kind of real estate the pool could invest in and did Adam and co as managers invest in commercial real estate well beyond the scope of the offering and or can the the investors hold the Mgt Co legally/commercially responsible to making unsecured loans to these projects if the loans are not repaid?
My point being how do investors make the Mgt Co (Adam etc) more accountable for their decisions without getting into any accusations of wrongdoing but simply on the basis of shareholder value
And every one lost money. But, they took their fat fees in spite of that fact.
League is a collection of many entities.
Four have failed in the sense of “investors’ money is lost, at risk of total loss or at risk of severe loss” or in the sense of “promises not kept”: Duncan LP, Fort St. John LP, IGW REIT and Coldwood LP (formerly Cityzen LP). There may be others.
That is not illegal in Canada. Many investments were just bad investment due to excessive first mortgage interest rates, high fees, overpaying for assets, high fees and possible (as yet unproven) misrepresentation such as the $100M uncollectable loan on IGW REIT’s book shown as an asset or the inter-company loan guarantees by IGW REIT.
The only success story that I see thus far is the takeover of Charter REIT 3-4 years ago – now called partners REIT trading under PAR.un with a roughly 10% yield.
The several other League projects are unknown to me, but perhaps folks on this blog can enlighten us.
Our last count was that they had created 70 limited partnerships in under 6 years.
Sandy may be correct in that many of us may feel the League are horrible managers of real estate and thus did not deliver what they promised investors (returns, transparency, redeem ability) they may in fact have not done anything illegal – Which is why I’ve often thought current unhappy investors should find a way to remove current management and replace them with parties than can better manage our real estate, and or for lower fee’s
There is one more success story that you are forgeting to mention – Manny and Adam achieved their Intergenerational Wealth..
Coincidentally, during the same time period as we lost ours….
Attempting to get a group of Investors together in the lower mainland (Vancouver area) so that we can at least try to work together in a cohesive manner to formulate some strategy in dealing with the impending disaster that we all face. My cell is 778-838-2308
good luck.I have contacted several investors whom got burnt same as me and I even have a top notch lawyer willing to take them on for 30% plus dispursrments and not one taker. If you have any success on your angle email me at solidfiction@mail.com
I think that IF League fails then the attitude may be different.
Re: OSC “Closed” posting – Original prospectus must be approved within 180 days. Their time limit maxed out. A ‘brand new’ prospectus must be submitted to move forward. (per BCSC)
Ok so is one to presume there were still problems with the prospectus even after the July redress and league failed to address those issues in time?I mean I find it entirely impossible that the application timed out through no fault of the league?
are investors considering legal action? A class action? kindly advise as to next steps. I cant not loose the money I invested… so stupidly…
3 years ago. I have been believing all the junk they tell me .. “dont worry – just stand in line for a retraction.. oh no .. this is better, get out of the retraction line, and stand in line to buy shares – which you can sell immediately… “.. haha still waiting for the shares… and doubt they are worth anything
Heather did you get an intelligent response from anyone?
There is far too much mudslinging going on between a token few posters.
We need to get past these and start being constructive in formulating a plan.
To sue the League, and or Adam and Manny, you need a legal reason to do so, a class action based on a conspiracy theory, anger, frustration, not getting distributions, them getting management fee’s, or making poor investment choices, etc will likely not prevail
Some better reasons might be;
1. That you purchased shares/units without the League revealing it’s full structure, and or mgt
fee’sbeing payable to other entities also owned by the same trustees, and owners (Thus the
BC complaint)
2. The LP, REIT, or League invested in real estate beyond the scope of what was stated in the
OM and or initial agreement you signed
3. The Mangers made bad investment decisions that were irregular for a Commercial REIT such
as loaning moneys unsecured, and or to other co’s also owned by the same trustees
Etc, etc…..
I would be more than elated to join in on any such legal action that had merit based on the above
and or to initiate it for a group with similar objectives
That is true. Failing projects and taking management fees, or cutting distributions is not illegal.
You need to show MISREPRESENTATION by the sales people. As such tell the BC Security Commission what you were told, whether you received an OM (offering memorandum) before you invested.
The EMD LISI should have told you it is a high risk investment with an uncertain outcome and no guarantee of payment. Did they do that ?
Did you read the OM ? What did the sales rep tell you about the $100,000,000+ unsecured loan to the Coldwood project if you invested in IGW REIT ?
To be successful in a lawsuit the sales process and the associated documentation , both orally and in writing is critical.
Perhaps the best approach is not to worry about what has happened up to now on this blog and focus instead on what to do going forward. If everyone continues to focus on how everyone else is posting, old and new posters alike, then everyone will be trapped by inertia and nothing happens to League. I imagine they would be very happy to see the arguing continue indefinitely. If a class action is possible, the lawyers will handle it so it really doesn’t matter who gets the ball rolling. I believe someone mentioned on here you only need 2 investors to start a class action lawsuit. I am not a lawyer, so I don’t know.
I have seen many posts where other investors have included personal contact information. I suggest someone take the first step, set aside the personal differences, and get in touch to see if legal action is within the realm of possibility. Get it started and then post the information here on who is the lawyer on the case and ask people to get involved. I would happily start this process but I am one of the rare people who managed to actually get out. I continue to be interested in this ordeal on behalf of some people I really love who don’t deserve any of this – nor do any of you I imagine, I just don’t know any of you.
AJ and Rachelle have indicated that they have a database of interested parties started, but AJ has also indicated she has had enough of all this. It might be worth contacting her to see if she would be willing to share the information she has to date so someone else can carry on. It shouldn’t matter whether you agree or disagree with any or all of her opinions, but it strikes me that she is sitting on some pretty valuable data.
I wish everyone the best of luck. Truly. This is so hard, and I myself lost a ton of sleep at points along the way. I hope everyone can move forward understanding how much they have in common and try to ignore differences in approach. I think the mudslinging we have seen on here is a result of the passion behind everyone’s response to what is happening to their money. Please try to direct your feelings at the people who really deserve it and not each other.
hello – new to this .. what does this mean to me? I invested (dudh~!~~) in League assets 3 years ago – in a reit .. paying 11%. when payments stopped, I tried to get my money back through a retraction process. There was a huge waiting line – so then they offered me shares… (is this what the BC securities commission ) is challenging? in any event, no news… and no money. Advice??
They all work together. Typical Canadian bureaucracy. Ten times what we actually need.
OSC is a lot more important than the BCSC in this public share application
The notice was from the OSC and not the BCSC so I doubt the two are related. It sounds like the public offering is not proceeding but it could be for any reason. Would like to get confirmation on that.
That ‘notice’ is cryptic at best. Does it mean that they are no longer under consideration for public filing? Sound like it. It would seem also to speak to the BCSC hearing. Has the ax finally fallen as far as our regulators are concerned?
There is a notice on sedar today which appears to state that the securities commission has closed the file on League Financial Partners IPO. Go to http://www.sedar.com and search on League Financial
I think that this is relevant. Despite all the efforts to raise CCC…..
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/news-video/video-raw-time-lapse-shows-concordia-operation/article14371451/
Sitting watching show called”American greed”(i have mentioned it here before) and the guy just said when the phones are a ringing and the demand for money to be returned out does the money requests to invest “your done”
One thing I find absolutely amazing after all that has gone on with the league that they still have the nerve and the gall to offer the blue book as part of the investment offers
that would be great news for sure
Heard a rumour late today that League managed to secure financing on Colwood. If true your letter may not be all bad news Solid!
what really really surprized me was that a big company like Fidelity put in 2.6 million in Dec 2012??? They had to have read the OM that stated there was 21 million in retractions going unfilled?
I don’t think that there is any doubt now that unless Adam can raise the construction financing he needs for Colwood in short order it is all over. It has reached the point that everyone in Victoria seems to have an opinion on the outcome. Their opinions may be wrong but at some point the pure inertia starts to dictate the result.
The point has been made before by others that there are a lot of people other than Adam and Manny who have made a lot of money here. If you have money at stake it may be worth while starting to write down names.
I still think this post from last May says it all!!!!
Henry Longmire says:
May 27, 2013 at 6:28 pm
When League are insolvent, there will be many claims from secured creditors, the properties will realize a value considerable lower than inflated values created without qualified appraisal in order to raise money with OM’s that are not read and understood, all of which will leave a whole lot of very disappointed investors with zilch. If the investors had done their proper due diligence, they would have realized that an empire built by two guys who had no qualifications, no previous knowledge or experience in investment real estate were doomed to fail. The only question left is what satisfaction is left for the dis-enfranchised investors? It may have been unethical, devious and greedy but to get a BCSC or criminal investigation started to establish if it was a criminal act seems remote. Maybe they will have the guts to attend a meeting of the investors and explain what went wrong, How they started with all the right intentions with a fancy blue book that was made up of stolen information to give the impression that they knew anything at all about what they were doing and a wonderful credo with the intention of making unsuspecting investors feel warm and fuzzy about how these guys were going to make them 15% return with a long term massive wealth they could pass on to the next generation. But they got distracted by the opportunity to create a process of deals that would provide a flurry of fees so they could have a glitzy office in Victoria that costs millions and employ a mass of people that were trained monkeys to lie and deceive investors, a string of big name executives who would last just long enough to realize it was all a scam and so they would leave again, maybe they will tell them all about the projects they paid way too much money for, did not follow through on the planned developments to generate to stated equity, only to sell the property later at a loss, all the time taking their well earned, aforementioned fees. Maybe they will explain why there have been lawsuits that investors money has been used to settle. Maybe they will explain the fiasco that is Colwood Corners and the decision to use IGW money as high accruing interest, unsecured loans against the artificially inflated values of a huge whale. I think they will, after all aren’t these the guys that gave you a credo that says they will not take a profit until the investor makes a profit? The June 6th decision will tell you what the sophisticated and realistic market of the Big O think of them.
yes i agree.I too did not like the tone of things
So someone tells you that you are getting a letter but won’t tell you what is in it?
Thats exactly my understanding. Just have to wait and see I assume
Doesn’t dound like good news.
what i heard through the grape vine is we are all to get a letter pretty soon? whatever that means or contains is anyone,s guess?
Anyone have a clue as to what this may be about?
I sit here and cant help but cry in my beer about how so badley I wish I would have have known about “skyline” before league.God I would be so well off its makes me ill.Skyline is such a honest,well structured, well financed well run,upfront private reit.Super stong balance sheet and great payout at 9% on the commercial reit and 7.5 on the apartment reit
oh well cant cry over spilt milk as the saying goes
was reading the latest filings today and all I see is one little fish in the bowel at 50K out of ontario.Some women named christiansen.
Hello,
I’m a League investor in one of their private projects. I’ve been reading this blog for a few days now and have some questions regarding the IGW REIT.
-It’s been posted multiple times that the loans made to Colwood project is unsecured. How is it unsecured? does it say unsecured loan on the documents? or is it because the asset value is zero or negative after first and second creditors?
-does anyone have the most recent financial statements of IGW REIT? if so, can it be posted? if it has already been posted, sorry I haven’t looked through every post.
-as far as I know League is still selling converible notes for the REIT as we speak, to non-accredited investors. Is this practice legal because there is an OM offered? i havent seen the OM so I dont know.
thanks in advance!
Has anyone of you ever read any of the Public offering prospective??? Look at page 18
Gant and Arruda through their varies company,s have taken “47.5” million from league in last 4 years
Also When the Harris Fraser financial group was purchased for 5.75 million plus 750K in aquesition costs of which they paid him Yuen Ng 3.2 million cash and a iou for the balance
Where( I wonder) this this money come from?
People should try and read this 500 page book as its unbelieveable what a convoluted mess it is
It shows IGW RIET Lp as having 156 million in loans outstanding including accrued interest on certain loans.I have to wonder out loud how much actual “today value” of assets back these loans?
Solid,
When does the change to quarterly payments to IPU holders kick in? Was August the last monthly payment so the next one is in November? I am wondering if Gant invested to help cover the June payment.
No mine is due sept 21-30ish Last one I got was June 21 2013 I asked the so called “wealth manager” what the chances of getting paid and he said no problem
I beleive it when I see it 27K
I guess that will be the next milestone for League then.
Very very interesting filing from June 24 2013 ADAM GANT invested $335000 in the league
bought 4.25% convertable units.
check your inbox
People have taken reverse mortgages on their primary residences to put money into League. AND, they are now promising 16.8% ‘uplift’ (sic) in an August 12 mailer. It is a back door investment that they claim will reduce ‘public issuance costs’ and improve the League Financial Partners balance sheet prior to going public.
AJ Have U a link to the offering?
I was reading a sedar file today and see where Fidelity(big investment firm) invested 2.6 million in dec 2012 .The selling firm Trapeze Capitol corp got paid $313,000 commission
This is my response (in part) to the initial action, not the injunction.
From The Globe and Mail: Crime without punishment: Canada’s investment fraud problem – http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/crime-and-no-punishment-canadas-investment-fraud-problem/article13938792/?utm_source=Shared+Article+Sent+to+User&utm_medium=E-mail:+Newsletters+/+E-Blasts+/+etc.&utm_campaign=Shared+Web+Article+Links
Looks like things are warming up .
This is such a sad story. Not just the part about the old folks who volunteer at the Sally Ann who lost everything, but the effin pathetic state of our country’s Securities regulation. Shameful. We need to change that.
what,s actually funny here is when I open the Globe link listed above guess who the sponsor link is???
Commercial Real Estate LP
Real Assets. Real Potential. Learn More with the Free Blue Book.
LeagueInvestment.ca
Generally speaking you are right AJ. The exception is that if you accuse someone of a criminal act. The BCSC proceedings are civil and not criminal.
League is such an unmitigated failure that it would be impossible for Ms. Barber to cause them further damage. The test for defamation is what a right minded member of the community would think. It is Ms. Barber’s position that right minded members of the community would (and do) hold the plaintiff’s actions in condemnation rather than in any esteem. It is impossible that the plaintiff does not know that the complete collapse of League is imminent (unless BCSC allows them to take their convoluted, money losing companies public). The company and all of its many subsidiaries are insolvent and currently have at least 3 properties under foreclosure. According to their own financial statements they have lost money on every deal. The worst was the Duncan Super Centre; investors lost $52,000,000 and League is currently in foreclosure on the deal.
AJ ??R U sure Duncan LP investors lost 52 million? The financials show a cost of around 63 million and a book value of 45 million after depreciation etc.
If the mall sold for even 40 million that only shows 23 million loss.Not just sure where the 52 million comes from? No doubt the 15 million in LP units is gone though
no comment? well I guess in the big picture it matters not as the project $$$$$ wise is just another total disaster and when it comes to league investors as were the ones whom suffer the huge loses
My guess is that a court isn’t going to tell anyone they cannot post their opinions. What they will likely do is issue an injunction against posting defamatory remarks.
By now League will know everyone who posts here and on Landlordrescue. Once they filed the suit it would have been simple to get a court order and asked the ISPs and hosting companies to turn over the records.
Times Columnist Now Accepting Fairy Tales As Fact
by Rachelle
Liar’s Club – Chicago, IL
When I heard that my miniscule blog got a mention in the Times Columnist, I was pleased.
Fairy Fantasy Land
According to Adam Gant, construction is going to begin on Capital City Centre project in Colwood. “after they get construction financing”. This is complete balderdash. No one in their right mind is going to finance their stinky albatross with two foreclosures on it. No one in their right mind is going to lend money to Adam Gant who was recently quoted in the Cowichan News Leader saying the “legal fees are cheaper than interest.” Lenders make money when the lendees pay their payments in full and on time. Adam Gant via his companies has no respect for lenders and a terrible history of repaying the money he borrows from lenders and investors alike.
Reality
From the National Inquirer Times Columnist… Gant said there is some frustration because the company has to deal with rumours swirling about the future of the project and some of what he calls misinformation being spread online. “This project is a meaningful one for us,” he said, noting it’s one of only a handful done close to home, while most of League’s investment activity has been across Canada. “It’s hard when you’re kind of singled out in a way where people don’t believe you are doing the right thing.”
It is not misinformation and rumours. It’s your balance sheet and your lack of fiduciary responsibility that I, investors and critics have a problem with. It’s your targeting of seniors, new immigrants and naive investors using misleading marketing materials (AKA The Blue Book of Real Estate Syndication) written at an 8th Grade reading level that we have a problem with. It’s also the two currently British Columbia Supreme Court foreclosure litigations on the Colwood project and the work stoppage that have people asking questions
“Meaningfulness” is irrelevant. Making money for investors is relevant, paying out distributions is relevant, sustainable business planning is relevant and observable measurable benchmarks of progress are relevant. Unfortunately, these are alien concepts to League
Nothing is more damning than your own financial statements. You’re as good a magician as David Copperfield. He made the Statue of Liberty disappear and you make investors’ money disappear.
Quote From Adam Gant & Emanuel Arudda’s Notice of Application
p.11 As set out in the audited consolidated financial statements for League IGW REIT, as at December 31, 2012, had $310,760,668 in total assets and $264,655,576 in total liabilities, excluding net assets attributable to unit holders.
What that means in plain English is that if you don’t count what IGW REIT owes to the investors the REIT has assets of around $46 million. But according to the BCSC they have raised $290 million from (screwed) investors which mean that somehow, someway $250 million dollars of old retired people’s money has vanished, been squandered or gone missing.
Non Arm’s Length Transactions
If you were going to invest money in League… you would start at a company called League Investment Services Inc. LISI is an exempt market deal but it is still required to have a standard of conduct BY LAW
In British Columbia, it is found in section 14 of the Securities Rules
Fair dealing with clients
14 (1) A registrant must deal fairly, honestly and in good faith with the clients of the registrant.
(2) A registered
(a) dealing representative, or
(b) advising representative,
of a dealer or adviser must deal fairly, honestly and in good faith with the clients of the dealer or adviser.
LISI owned by Adam Gant and Emanuel Arruda are required to deal fairly and ethically with their investment clients. Does it sound like sound financial advice for a widow (Lori K) to invest all of her insurance proceeds with League? Is is sound financial advice to promote these risky, speculative, over leveraged real estate investments to people who are a few years shy of retiring? I think not, and I think this is going to be a lot bigger problem than Adam Gant thinks.
Another troublesome non arms length transactions that seem suspicious are the $99 million in outstanding loans between companies, the “votes” to change the rules governing redemptions and the valuation of properties.
My Affidavit
The following is a quote from my affidavit filed August 19th and freely available in full to anyone with $12 on the BC Court website.
“At p.11 of the Notice of Application is found a misleading, incorrect factual error. Ms. McGrann refers to the assets and liabilities when referring to the “financial health” of IGW REIT, yet she would like to exclude the “net assets attributable to unit holders”. This is a red herring. The funds invested by unit holders are liabilities for the company. In a properly run REIT, interest is payable on those units and they are reimbursable shortly after demand. For the plaintiff to suggest that the investor’s funds should be excluded begs the question of whether the plaintiff has breached its duty of good faith and fair dealing and the fiduciary duty owed to the investors and to make a full accounting of all investor funds.
In Plaintiff’s Exhibit E on page 296 losses for IGW REIT are as follows…
2010 IGW REIT losses total ($19,104,524)
2011 IGW REIT losses total ($26,916,631)
2012 IGW REIT losses total ($62,571,109)
Three year loss total is ($108,592,264)
Response to “Irrationality” Comment
Adam Gant said to the Time Columnist that “We like honest feedback, analysis of results and criticism of strategy and approach. What we don’t like are people irrationally or in an unsupported way making accusations that have no basis in reality,” he said, noting that kind of rhetoric tends to have an effect on people who don’t have time to dig for the truth themselves. “We are not going to stand by any unbiased accusations.”
Mr Gant is so inured to respectable business practices and investor trust that he considers my criticism of his business practices irrational. To which I ask, “Are you a sociopath Mr.Gant?” $250 million is a lot of money and people don’t deserve to have their money mishandled by you… this is money many of them have scrimped and saved for years before making the mistake of handing it to you based on your deceptive and misleading marketing practices.
Your behaviour is not acceptable. You and Emanuel have spend years molding an illusion of respectability and competence when you are anything but respectable and competent. There’s no fancy office or coat of arms that can hide that for much longer.
Your company is dying, killed by unsustainable interest rates on loans and your own ineptitude and lack of leadership. Unfortunately there’s enough life left in the beast to slay another round of investors while flailing around in it’s final agony.
Note To Times Columnist
“Slowest Construction Project on Earth” or “White Elephant Towers Grinds To a Halt… AGAIN” would be a more appropriate title for your article.
I’d be glad to share information with you, such as how League encouraged investors to make use of Home Equity Lines of Credit to invest with. Or how they promised original investors 15% ROI. Or their fascinating “Investment Guarantee” and “Liquidity Agreement”. SLAPP suits are a real phenomenon used by bullies to intimidate and silence people voicing real concerns about the public good.
Times Columnist – You’ve been used, please report the real story.
So, Rachel and AJ, what happens if you lose(?) the injunction… Will you stop posting or just continue using different names?
BoB P? kind of a dense question.I dont see how Gant or anyone can stop anyone from posting here or anywhere.I can certainly see where they have the right to challange what they have posted and if they can prove it wrong then Force a retraction of said inaccuracys etc + sue for damages but can not stop anyone from posting?
Robert, you are asking me if I will knowingly break the law. No, I won’t. Rachelle and I are the only people who are publicly standing up to these crooks, and are the only ones they can trace. I have never hidden, and obviously, neither has she.
I will have very little respect for any court that finds for them, I must say. However, I am not vested in any way, and earn nothing for this battle.
I will not risk contempt of court. You can go to jail for that and I have no interest in going to jail. We will see.
I have come to the conclusion that 99% of league investors have their heads so far up their arses its sad.BCSC is a limp wristed organization and G and mini G know this. League investors have no idea< not a clue!!! how serious this situation is
Psychiatrists have a name for that.
http://www.timescolonist.com/business/work-set-to-begin-next-month-on-1-billion-capital-city-centre-project-in-colwood-1.600038
More lies. Andrew Duffy is obviously NOT doing his job as a reporter, but is just one more SHILL for League Non-assets
Guys, email Andrew Duffy and tell him the real situation. I will.
aduffy@timescolonist.com
Iam pretty sure Adam is living in a world viewed much differently by him than from us(league investors)
I have heard from several people that, even though they did not actually qualify as ‘sophisticated’ investors, and the ‘wealth manager’ knew they did not, they were convinced to invest anyway.
I would have to say that personally I beleive that to be true but in the end it changed nothing and as things sit it still has changed nothing.
http://www.bcsc.bc.ca/policy.aspx?id=13568
Would’t it depend upon whatever agreement was entered into between the so called ‘wealth manager’ and the investor? My bet is that they signed something or other and had that provision waived.
These requirements began in Sept. of 2009. There is no way to waive the requirement for a suitability assessment. It is a legally required fiduciary responsibility of every registrant – including all dealing representatives of an EMD. It is the responsibility of the Chief Compliance Officer and the Ultimate Designated Person to ensure all the representaitves have adhered to this law.
here is something I read today.Iam not a lawyer and Iam not giving advice at all.Maybe Adam and the league are all above board.That will have to be proven or misproven before Anyone can say its true.or not.I say innocent until proven guilty
Quote from article”:
Know your client (KYC) and suitability
Dealers and advisers must ensure that any security purchase or sale recommended for a client is suitable. In order to meet the suitability obligation, EMDs should understand:
the general investment needs and objectives of their clients and any other factors necessary for them to determine whether a proposed purchase or sale is suitable, and
the attributes and associated risks of the products they are recommending to clients (commonly referred to as know your product or KYP).
EMDs should be asking the investors questions regarding, among other things, their profession, income sources, liabilities and financial assets. EMDs must ensure the information collected from investors supports the use of the accredited investor exemption. The report states that where EMDs simply rely on a statement from the investor stating that he or she meets the accredited investor definition without collecting any other information to support this statement, the EMDs have failed in their obligation to take reasonable care and diligence to assess the investor’s ability to rely on the exemption.
EMD= Exempt market deaer
You are going about this wrong, you’re initial attack should be to sue the advisor who recommended the product and sold it to you. If you can prove that it was inappropriate for your risk tolerance, then you have a case against the advisor and the firm (LISI). All EMD advisors must be lisenced to sell in their province and are personally liable for their recommendations. Selling high risk, illiquid investments to little old ladies and retirees is abig no-no and shouldn’t be too hard to get ajudge to agree on that.
I beleive only after 2010.I know the DuncanLP that I was duped into buying that the guy was not licensed and was not required to be licenced to sell EM securitys in 2009.
BUT he was still required to offer the OM and to do DD and make sure it was a proper investment and explain the high risk.NONE of this was done.I was told it was a sure bet and super low risk as it was just a loan so to speak.2 year max .
AJ Iam pretty sure your wrong.However here is a very most interesting read regarding things
http://www.bcsc.bc.ca/uploadedFiles/dealers/compliance/Ethics_for_EMDs_Speaker_Notes.pdf read page 4 and page 8 and give us your thoughts
I only had to read the first word “ETHICS” and knew it would’t apply
But, if anyone has a licensed Financial Adviser that got them into this crock, there is recourse for them.
I may be wrong, but I think those rules do not apply to exempt market dealers.
100% they apply to EMD!!!!!!
http://www.bcsc.bc.ca/policy.aspx?id=8486&cat=3%20-%20Registration%20Requirements%20and%20Related%20Matters
The league should have been charged by BCSC years ago for violating the “Know your clients”
rules. I know for a fact they never did one ounce of this when selling me their shit nor 2 ffriends of mine
I did some more investigating and here is a tidbit that shocked me a bit and maybe will be of help to some of us
Every one of those dealing reps that sold the product and ultimately goes right back to Adam Gant as the Ultimate Designated Person responsible for compliance. They can be fined $1M per infraction!!! So If you were sold LP shares, reit shares or IPU shares and the selling rep did not sit down and do a suitability report with you as the investor they violated BCSC security law and thats a fact.we may be able to do a insurance claim through this venue.
They’ve promised that dreams can come true, for forgot to mention that nightmares are dreams too. – Oscar Wilde
Pretty quite on here last few days.I was hoping (just maybe) Adam Gant would come to his sense,s and admit the wrong doing and try and straighten out this financial mess he has created.Maybe get us back 60 or 70 cents on the dollar.I sure hope the rumour I heard about Arruda being taken to the BCSC whiping shed for using his rediculous Blue Book to sell people league investments turns out true.anyone with any new news?
PFouladianpour@bcsc.bc.ca is the person to contact at BCSC regarding your league complaints
Please check your private email.
talked to a friend today that has 150K in the league from the original LP now called IGW reit units and his so called wealth manager told him that the league was being looked at by BCSC because of misuse of blue book.I said boy what a big surprize what took them so long
Did everyone see this? http://www.bcsc.bc.ca/release.aspx?id=17908
They might be having a hard look at the way the Partners REIT proxy vote was conducted. IMHO, the old trustees have a good handle on the business, and could easily find a much better manager.
I think that is the notion behind a class action, because we could advertise for injured parties. We should get answers during the conference call.
AJ
I have to say I pretty much agree with your assessment. There must be a way a person or persons can get a client list somehow someway? If It was me I would disolve us from Duncan LP and Colwood.LP. That money is Gone gone gone.Concentrate on PAR shares as souce of income to run things on a interm basis. Get the IGW reit holdings in order and slowly disolve holdings.The par shares pay about 220K Per month.With NO fat cat mouths to feed like G and Mini G and an absurd number of employees and exspensive offices etc and the lot this IGW reit could be run very efficiently .
Might even break even in the end
Look at the League’s documents on the BCSC website. They don’t list all of the investors, but some purchasers of IGW REIT securities are shown. A daisy chain of debt throughout the entities is problematic for your solution.
eh? More bafflegab. Make sense, please.
http://www.tvsbarristers.com/Securities-Litigation/
Solid, I am not sure. It is just a first step, because neither Rachelle nor I have the money to get a lawyer. We are also communicating with BCCLU
well then maybe people should listen and Help me hire this C. Vienotte because that what he does? I understand what your saying Iam just saying Investors need to hire a heavy hitter like him.Another thing on a side note.League says no money to pay investors? yet this year they spent over 5 million dollars of IGW reit investment money to buy more shares in PAR.
It is critical that the investors are represented by qualified counsel. Here is the problem: there are 2200 people who are in this mess, and until we can get the investor list, only small fraction of the investors are involved. Here is another problem: there is no money. It is all gone. I am not sure that paying for some high powered lawyer, who will get paid a fortune because of the complex nature of this mess, is going to result in any investor getting SBA. I hate that part.
I have counted 27 lawsuits that they are involved in. They create new businesses and investment vehicles and bully their salespeople into raising new money. Gant describes this activity as ‘creating value’.
I am not saying don’t try. If you could ask your lawyer if he thinks it would be possible for unit holders to fire the two of them, and find a new GP to take over the projects (a good, honest, experienced developer / property manager). I don’t personally know of anyone, but their former CFO is working for a reputable firm (now), and he may have some ideas.
http://league.ca/contact-us/careers/681
Those insurance policies are not useful. The first one does not cover losses caused by intentional acts like fraud , violation of securities laws or most bad business judgments. In fact it may only be a directors liability policy protecting directors from being sued by investors. In other words they get their legal fees paid when you sue them.The second one only covers losses when an employee steals from the business.
I am an investor since 2011, and am absolutely incensed as to how my investments have worked out with these supposedly honest and sharp individuals. I initially got involved in early 2011 but was aware of them from 2006. I searched the internet contacted the BBB of Victoria prior to getting involved and could not find any negative information on the two of them.
What really disturbs me is that in 2012 they were recognised by a magazine called profit .com as one of the most profitable companies in Canada.
#13 League Assets Corp. 2,638 Real estate investment management CAD revenue 118,288,990 74 employees.
How could this be that in one year their mismanagement has put them in this big hole ????
All the time I enquired and invested with my representative specifically in the LP’S was told that these investments were outside and nothing to do with the IGW Reit. Now I find out that everything was linked to the IGW Reit. Thank god I am not involved with Colwood and was not impressed from the start as to the validity of this investment.
What I would like to do is for as many of the investors to try and get together physically to see what we can do collectively as a group. Any assistance would be most gratefully accepted.
I agree…I’m in the Van area and would like to meet with other investors and see what the best course of action is.
Stephen when can we meet . Eddie
I’m good to meet next week. What area are u in?
I;m out in the valley but in Van on Tuesdays
I have contacted a lawyer By the name of Carey Vienotte.Big time securitys lawyer
We can start by paying him 5K and he will do a preliminary to see what can be done for us.He is a well known successfull vancouver lawyer whom specializes in BC securitys law.All I need is 4-5 guys whom are serious to get going
Protea, go to BCSC (ask for Gary H.), and make certain you have any documentation that specifically states what you are and are NOT invested in.
We are trying to organize a conference call for this week with a lawyer who has some knowledge of what is going on. I will post the time and number for the call here.
The issue is that your money was likely “loaned” to the IGW REIT (un-secured) without your knowledge or consent. That is contrary to their offering documents, and also illegal.
AJ this lawyer? He specializes in BCSC law and reit investment frauds?
Connect through Allison Barber (ajmbconsulting@gmail.com) or Rachelle Berube ( rachelle@ andlordrescue.ca)
yes iam more than well aware of whom to contact!! i simply asked a question about their expertise ? but this is a old post u just replied to?
I know…I think we can find out through a lawyer
Its says:Executive Liability policy, which provides up to $10,000,000 of protection against any single loss;
I wonder is that per person?
We have an insider on our side(s) now. I will find out if he knows more. I know $15M doesn’t begin to cover any losses, but what a spectacular claim to make to Aon
thats from 4 years ago I wonder if they kept up the premiums?
just more bullshit smoke and mirrors back then
Does anyone know the standing of this:
NEW INSURANCE POLICIES PROVIDING EVEN MORE PROTECTION FOR MEMBER-PARTNERS’ INVESTMENTS
Thursday, July 23, 2009
Greetings Member-Partners and friends,
To further safeguard the capital of its Member-Partners and to protect them against acts of internal malfeasance, League Assets is proud to announce two new insurance policies:
An Executive Liability policy, which provides up to $10,000,000 of protection against any single loss;
An Employee Fidelity policy, which provides up to $5,000,000 of protection against any single loss.
The first policy assures that all of League’s investments are protected against wrongful acts unintentionally committed by, or at the direction of the Directors. The second policy protects investors from acts of fraud by League staff members.
Of course League’s principals owe a duty of good faith to any of the entities of which they are directors or officers and the positively inter-dependent structure of League’s investments assures management’s interests are aligned with the investors’. Moreover, wilful or material misrepresentation in any of League’s offering documents continue to carry penalties under applicable securities laws. So while Member-Partners have always been protected by League’s investment structure and applicable laws, now they are additionally covered by these policies.
We all know that certain investment managers have recently been found or suspected to have carried out fraud on a massive scale, causing pain and suffering to families and charitable organizations that entrusted their investments to them. Such actions show what happens when greed takes control.
However, in no way does the purchase of these policies question the competence of our team members. In fact, it is a testament to their professionalism. This is because to qualify for the insurance, League submitted itself to a rigorous investigation by Aon Reed Stenhouse Inc., an insurance broker with offices worldwide. After examining our business and our policies, standards, and practices, the underwriters concluded that League poses such a low risk, that we were “worthy” of being covered — and at a preferred rate.
Although I knew this to be true long before the process began, having the fact independently confirmed by term risk managers pleased me greatly.
I’d like to emphasize that we did not undertake to purchase this insurance because we were told we should. We did so voluntarily because it is the right thing to do. Furthermore, the two policies are being paid for by League — not from the proceeds of any investment entities. We are pleased to do so in the name of positive-interdependence, the overriding principle that governs all our decisions and operations.
In our constant pursuit of excellence, we are happy to have added even more assurance for current and future Member-Partners’ that their capital, and the wealth of their future generations, are in trustworthy hands. My partner Adam Gant and I, along with all League staff, are bound by Our Credo. It is our guiding philosophy. It is who and what we are, and it guides all our decision-making every day.
We are not among those who believe mediocrity is a safe resting place. We believe that as Member-Partners in League, you are deserving of more than the standard fare. We set high standards for ourselves, and daily we see to it that in every arena in which we operate we continually aim to exceed all others.
The acquisition of these two new insurance policies reinforces our intention of making League so good that you won’t hesitate to invite your friends and colleagues to join you in member-partnership. The faster League grows, the greater our ability to create new services and wealth-building opportunities for all.
Should you have any questions about this or any other matter, please do not hesitate to call your Member Services Manager, or me. As your fellow Member-Partners, we take great pride in helping you achieve Intergenerational Wealth™ — for you and your family.
Warmly and sincerely,
Emanuel F. Arruda, Founding Partner
League Assets Corp.
Learn, Earn, Live, Give.™
PUBLIC SHARE OFFERING QUESTION???
League from what I see has no money so where in the world once the shares are issued and trading will all the cash required to pay the promised quarterly cash top offs and the 5.65% distribution payments?
In my opinion, there is enough bantering in this thread to make it difficult to determine what is applicable to each investor’s current situation. We see quite a bit of passion from solidfiction. I believe this is because he has had a 3rd party review the League financials for him. He understands his current situation. If you are confused, I encourage you to do the same. Contact your accountant, even by phone, and ask him to go to SEDAR. Search League financial partners. The latest Amendment. Skip to IGW REIT pages. Just a quick review. Advise him to visit Landlord rescue site. He can see a video of current condition of Colwood Project. He can also review pending legal action posted there. I don’t think that it will take him long to determine a ‘Plain English’ analysis of your current situation.
I don’t know, but if I had to guess i would say probably more debt of some kind.
Anyone taking the time to read the numerous prospectus’s would have clearly seen the risk that was on offer. If people could afford to invest enough of their funds to financially ruin themselves in one security, then they must not have valued those funds very highly. Today everyone wants to be a pro, but studying is for losers. A lot of people reached for the fruit here, without first looking at the tree. Risk and reward is a two way street.
There is only one prospectus. I was only recently filed.
It was only recently filed.
I meant the Offering Memos for the IGW REIT units. Those were filed numerous times and contained sufficiently concerning information.
Everyone knew what you meant. I was being facetious. The problem is that it takes some sophistication to understand an OM, and they did not target sophisticated investors. They still do not. They run Google ads for god’s sake, claiming you can OWN A PIECE OF COMMERCIAL REAL ESTATE FOR AS LITTLE AS $1000!!! Indeed, many people did not receive an OM until the money was already out of their account. Please don’t defend these guys. They took an entire life insurance settlement from a young widow. She was alone with little kids, was terrified, and put the money where she thought it would grow. She thought that because of the CREDO, THE BLUE BOOK, THE ‘GOLDEN RULE’ and all the other complete and utter bullshit these guys spewed.
KD ??you so full of shit its not funny.The risk label on the offer would be there even if it was offered as a GIC.BCSC law says no matter what the warning has to be on the label(so to speak)
If U dont sign this generic form U cant invest. If you read their “lets suck them” in literature (blue books and OM)in what Gant and especially Arruda promised and said in writing and what they ended up doing are two entirely different things in my opinion .I could go on and on but but what the hells the use.I dont need or want the opinion of a asshole like you whom has no money invested.We already see the mistake! we are trying to see what avenues we have for recourse
Stuart. I am obvious about my identity, because I am proud of my record. I’m broke, but I can sleep at night. If you want proof of what I have said, I can provide it. It sucks that such a tiny part of one’s life can make such a negative and lasting impression, but people who know me know the truth. This last five years has been horrific for honest business people, and I suppose that is what burns me the most. I have had many really excellent deals go nowhere, because people are scared. They put their hard earned money where it looks safest. Now, everyone needs to rethink that position. Sad. BTW, a retraction of your statement above might be in order.
Stuart, my understanding of AJ’s situation was that she, unwittingly, found herself involved in a company whose members were engaging in Ponzi Scheme activity. She ‘took down’ the company from the ‘inside out’. In doing so, she may have saved (who knows how many) members of society from dramatic economic hardship (something many of us are currently having to go through). Please tell us what you have done for society recently (other than hiding behind your neighbor’s wifi and attacking the integrity of an old lady – an old lady who is crusading for what is right and just in this world. Please let us know what your name is so that we can check your linkedin profile. We wish to pass judgement. Thanks
Thanks, SOL…but lay off the ‘old lady’ stuff just a bit. lol
Sorry, checking my files, I left in 2008. But I was only there for 5 months.
Stuart, you must not be in Victoria. Pratten Financial ceased operations in late 2007. I have not even spoken to Pratten since then.
Wow. I wonder how I can remove that? I don’t even remember the password
I haven’t been there since July 2007. I no longer have a Linkedin profile. More games.
Your linkedin profile says that you are the Marketing Director for Pratten Financial.
Adam,
I am an IGW investor. I’ve been reading this blog a while and wanting to ask you this question for a long time – How can you sleep at night? Because of your mismanagement of other people’s money you absolutely ruin people’s lives. I was at the Vancouver meeting in April before the vote. I looked around the room and saw mostly 50 to 60+ older people. I am sure a lot of RSP or retirement money is invested. You absolutely have not done what you said according to your credos, coat of arms etc. Where is our intergenerational wealth? I didn’t want to have anything to do with Colwood and now you are touting the combined new company is a good thing. You said you wanted ” like minded ” investors. Since we are not like minded anymore why don’t you return investors money. So please answer 2 questions – How can you sleep at night by ruining old people’s financial lives? When do we get our money back if you ever decide to do so?
Pissed Off Investor
Please email me at solidfiction@mail.com I need to talk to u in private
I came into that mess two years after the split, and I lasted a whole 5 months. I saw it for what it was, and got out…but not before I helped the investors get out, too. Do not tarnish a 35 year career with a 5 month mistake.
I think that you are laying it on a little thick Allison. Many of your criticisms about this project over the years have been bang on but I think that some are unfair. It is not like every project that you and Al have done has been successful. Sometimes I wonder how much of this is sour grapes from when Manny and Adam split from you guys.
A little thick?? Unfair?? Stuart DO u even know the meaning of Unfair? Have you read my rants?? U should because WHAT GANT and ARRUDA promised they would do and not do has not happened! Not even close.IF you had the amount of dough I have in league you would not be critisizing anyone but GANT and Arruda.Do U even have a penny invested? I doubt it or you would be Mad a hell same as i am.
I admit I thought the best way out was the public share offering because I foolishly beleived we had ton of equity and all would be well.I did not know how up side down the league really was till I started reading the 600 page prosepctus amoung other things READ what I posted about what the outside Finacial expert i contacted had to say.He is totally independant and had no bone to pick .Geez man give your head a shake. Ray charles could see whats going on here
They throw around big numbers so that they can keep raising money! It is all about credence, IMHO, they have none. They have ONE development completed, and it lost all of the investors money, is in foreclosure, and to quote Gant: “Legal fees are cheaper than interest”. Some management. Some integrity. To take on this giant project, their SECOND development, and convince people that they knew what the f they were doing took some stones. But there are a lot of psychos out there with stones.
They are like two kids with a lemonade stand that say that they own a million acres of orchards.
Here in lies my largest compliant.Adam keeps continually yapping about 2 billion this and 2 billion that? SO WHAT IT has very little if Nothing to do with the predicament of the league IGW REIT.That,s all any of us here are concerned about. EOS
•LEAGUE IGW REIT, a private $300 million real estate investment trust, comprised of a portfolio of Canadian commercial, industrial and residential properties;
REALLY what about suspect mortgage loans to COLLWOOD and DUNCAN?? what about the 4+ million public traded PAR shares?are they included in the above statement? its does not say so?If they are then say so
I dont care about you and your BS 2 billion under management and no one else does either
WE care about what went wrong and will we ever see our moneys or part of it returned???
THAT,S THE WHOLE IDEA OF THIS FORUM IN MY OPINION.wheres the money??
How can U say 290 million invested by league members over the years and then claim we have 300 million in assetts>> If that was true or even close we would all be sitting pretty in the drivers seat and no one would be screaming give me my money back.Please Tell us of this
“300 million in Assets” how much is leveraged against this 300 Million????
Also regarding the Public offering I asked a Financial expert to look at league numbers and give me his professional opinon of the IGW reit convertion idea and what the real debt looks like;REMEMBER this is a opinion and not absolute fact so if its wrong I would like whom ever to then clarify the numbers
QUOTE:
If I had to guess, that entity that they are trying to create is leveraged about 100% to 110% – a lot more if you consider the IPU units as debt, which they are under IFRS. I know some institutional investors that did a debenture for League and they are not pleased with what they are seeing. I would say that if you include the IPU units they are about 140%. They are also using inflated values for their properties and assets (by assets I refer to things like the $80M owed to IGW REIT by Colwood and the likes). They continue to write those down every year, so why would it not be expected that they write off another $30M+ as unrecoverable debts in 2013.
Just heard from their lawyers, and the hearing to shut me up has been postponed to the 27th.
Some one calling himself Steve Madden said he went to my website and wanted to know if I had any projects where he could ‘park’ some money. GAWD. Not everyone is wet behind the ears.
I wrote back and said that I was in the middle of litigation with some very smarmy people. Idiots
Gant. Tell your minions to stop sending me emails. Really, you should have a far better idea of my intelligence by now.
AJ what are the emails all about?
The thing that really galls me is people lent(invested) money in the league, myself included
and never realized nor were we told that our money would be lent to personal projects that were oubviouisly failing of the two managers and that these loans were ultra high risk,basically unsecured and certainly far from”first inline”.I took hard earned TAX paid money and entrusted it with Arruda and Gant and now look where we are at??? dead in the water
as we say screwed ,blued and tatooed
In the Victoria Times Colonist: Gant said it’s important to come to a quick resolution.
“To us it’s something that creates no value for investors and takes time away from all those business activities that do create value,” he said.
WHAT BUSINESS ACTIVITIES MIGHT THOSE BE, GANT?? VALUE FOR WHOM, GANT???
You are correct, most people, INCLUDING YOU, have NO experience with a project of this size. But then, people with experience would never even consider this white elephant as even remotely possible; even if they had the money to do it!
Your last comments are not all that far off from the purpose for the consolidation transaction in working to create the new listed asset manager. The goal has always been to create greater returns than the REIT assets contribution to the total value alone.
We do not have 40 wealth managers. As of September we will have less than 25.
We currently have $2.1 Billion in assets that we look after and that is taking into account the impairment on the Duncan and ResCap assets from the exited condo conversion projects. It may be hard to see as they are all in separate LP’s and corporate entities but the assets are held at their current market value either based on the trading securities prices or the IFRS value which KPMG has tested for reasonableness and in the case of some reduced the number to be representative of current market value.
Development has to occur for the Colwood project to realize full value. The project has absolutely been challenging and any that know us personally know how much we have done to push the project forward. We have communicated to the unit holders involved that the Current Limited Partnership vehicle is not the right financing structure to complete the overall build out and have now been working for 10 months on creating the new company to build all of the density it is zoned and approved for. Most people would not have a practical experience with a project of its size so we can appreciate why it is harder to completely understand. With more than 3.5 million of build-able density we can easily expect to be under construction for 15 years or more.
We can’t argue about what the future will hold. The management team knows what has to be done and will continue to take all steps necessary to move the projects along. We may not follow this blog every day but as there are further results to report we will either send an email out to the unit holders, send out a press release, or update the blog with further information.
Adam Gant
All Smoke and mirrors. I personally could care less about Colwood other than it owes IGW REIT over 50 million dollars which we will never see it paid back.The Duncan Mall is a dismal failure financially (LP unit holders lost 15+ million)and who knows if and when the IGW reit will get its loan to Duncan repaid.You Claim 2.1 Billion under management? I seriously challange that figure and in reality if true its a mute point BECAUSE IT does not all belong to the IGW REIT which is all most of here care about at this point in time and whats OWED against this??.People are angry about the Hidden fees you take,the obscene Comissions Taken, The complex mess we currently have.All Unit holders have seen is the errorsion of their investments.YOU people pumped yourselves up and put yourselves on a pedistle and preached we get paid after u get paid,our Blue book is the bible,READ our Blue book before investing, we want to create wealth for you and your familys etc etc etc
And as it stands right now its all one big scam and your a bunch of fucking liars and cheats as see things.I have been in the league for several years and have a ton invested and you people have vilolated every thing that you bragged about being.
Going public will do only one thing.It will be a big benefit for Gant and Arruda
It will do nothing for the investors as the SP will plummet.
I so agree with what you just wrote. I also have tons of money invested with these bastards and all I can say is that to this day I have never been able to retrieve one penny of my hard earned cash (not that I haven’t tried) and I doubt that I ever will. On top of that, they have completely cut off all of my distributions. So plainly said, they have my money for free and I get absolutely nothing in return, nothing.
Just as I thought. Just another wimp hiding behind his lawyers skirts. You know, I just bet that if you came clean with investors, said you were sorry, and you would see that THEY GOT PAID FIRST, all of this would go away.
And the walls came down
All the way to hell
Never saw them when they standin’
Never saw them when they fell
AJ – Do you have an investment in LEAGUE? Are you thinking about the investors and how to get the best outcome for everyone and what is in the unit-holders best interests. How many of the investors do you know personally? Your statement above “They need to liquidate, pay the investors…” does not sound like something that an individual focused on getting the best financial return on assets would say.
To realize the most value from any real estate investment or development project – the construction and any involved leasing needs to be finished. Value does not sit still and maximum value isn’t achieved without active management.
LEAGUE’s management team has worked for 4 years since the credit crises to bring the toughest development projects to a place where they can be stabilized and debt can be replaced with equity and they are closer now, more than ever, to being in a more stable state. In the next 4 months leading up to year end if management achieves the goals communicated to unit holders over the last 8-10 months then everyone will be much better off than anything you have suggested. Our unit holders know this and if you asked any of them which outcome would give them more value – the stated objectives of management – or what is suggested above – the answer would be clear. We have work to do and will persist until it is done.
For any of our unit-holders that are reading this. Please treat this as confirmation that management at LEAGUE have not lost any of its drive and focus on getting the development projects finished and will work through any scepticism and withstand the cynics to finish what we started even if it not achieved with the composure that we would all prefer.
Adam Gant, LEAGUE
Adam I use to beleive in you but now your so full of shit its not funny and to have kept Arruda as your partner adds insult to injury.The projects that we bought into are not the ones that piss me off. Its the fact you took money from investors,made promises of returns that are not possible and the real killer is the MILLIONS you spent on COLWOOD and DUNCAN that will never be recovered nor can either identity afford to repay the IGW reit. Your Blue book should be shoved up your collective asses to say the least.You have taken unreasonable fees,opened unneeded exspensive offices,hired way more staff then required and basically you have spent more than your income.Your story to me when u enticed me into investing in the league was “we take EXISTING under valued/rundown propertys and fix them up,increase rents etc and lease them out and the returns pay the distributions.YOU NEVER told me oh by the way I have a white elephant called Colwood LP that i have lent MILLIONS of dollars of league money that will never be able to repay us for years if ever never mind any interest and oh by the way Duncan LP is in trouble so lets just direct 18 million there way also.The PAR.UN also is way off base(gameplan) I told you when I signed up I wanted nothing to do with stock market and you told me LEAGUE is private and is not involved in the stock market.Another lie you guys told us investors
Had you gave me a original OM and forced me to read it and understand it most likely I would have never invested in the league.
READ your dribble above? Do U really really think anyone believes in you any more? I dont
Listen, sonny boy, this is one old lady you can’t intimidate or bully. NO, thank god I don’t have money in your giant pile of crap. To call them ASSETS is beyond belief. NOT ONE of your deals has ever seen black ink.
You have NEVER done the work required to get any lift. But that does not concern you. You take your fees NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS TO THE PROJECT.
Explain to these good people how you went from earning about 45,000K a year from Partners, but now you, minutti and the actor each earn $250,000 a year from Partners.
Explain how, in your own prospectus you state that you earn fees FROM MONEY RAISED, not from the profits:
“Certain Contractual Fees, namely Asset Management fees and Organisation, Set Up and Service fees, are earned on capital raised from the Company’s investors.
Investment Income
Investment income is earned by LEAGUE pursuant to its lending or investing activities with the Project LPs. Also included as investment income, is any income earned on LEAGUE’S own capital.***
LEAGUE HAS NO CAPITAL!
Explain how, if you are such great manager, every deal is under water. EVERY DEAL.
Explain to me how there is “honour and glory” in taking a young widow’s entire life insurance settlement? HOW??? Just in case you have forgotten her name, it is Lori K.
Explain how you earn PERFORMANCE FEES, when you take write downs on sold properties. According to your prospectus fees were over $16,000,000 in 2012, but NO DISTRIBUTIONS TO INVESTORS.
Financial Highlights
The following is a summary of key financial information for the periods indicated:
31-Mar-13 31-Dec-12 31-Dec-11 31-Dec-10
Total assets . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $23,774,246 $21,940,605 $17,531,174 $ 8,612,335
Total liabilities . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 25,690,091 22,363,231 15,024,207 7,697,593
Total equity (deficiency) . . . . . . . . . . . (1,915,845) (422,626) 2,506,967 914,742
Three Months Ended Year Ended
31-Mar-13 31-Mar-12 31-Dec-12 31-Dec-11 31-Dec-10
Total revenues . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $ 3,686,429 $ 3,517,668 $18,094,623 $15,909,631 $11,733,710
Total expenses . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4,817,514 2,856,492 18,412,649 12,734,821 12,152,771
Net (loss) income before other items,
and income taxes . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (1,131,085) 661,176 (318,026) 3,174,810 (419,061)
Total other items . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (844,419) (59,878) (1,782,311) (347,804) (388,182)
Total consolidations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (43,947) (48,208) (195,071) (198,488) (138,369)
Net (loss) income before income
taxes . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (1,975,504) 601,298 (2,100,337) 2,827,006 (807,243)
Income taxes . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (482,285) 167,198 (219,774) 825,981 (175,977)
Net (loss) income . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (1,493,219) 434,100 (1,880,593) 2,001,025 (631,266)
LEAGUE ASSETS HAS NO ASSETS. LAC IS INSOLVENT.
(from the prospectus) “Revenue
• Total revenue for the three months ended March 31, 2013 increased over the same period in 2012 by $0.2 million (5%). The increase in revenue is predominantly due to increases in asset management and acquisition fees over the same period in 2012. The increase is predominantly due to increased asset management fees and acquisition fees as a result of increased assets under management in LPs and Partners REIT, and an increase in properties acquired by Partners REIT.”
Explain why you have DOUBLED the number of “Member Wealth Managers” in two years, from 21 to 40. Whose wealth are they managing, exactly? Oh, right, they are raising NEW MONEY!!!
Explain why LISI should get a 22% increase in ‘service fees’. For doing what??
Explain how you can say, in your prospectus, that
“League Investment Services Inc.’s shares are wholly owned by League Assets Limited Partnership.The due from related party balance is due from League Assets Corp. and is non-interest bearing and has no specified terms of repayment. Service fees are earned from League Assets Corp. and pursuant to an agreement, equate to costs incurred plus 1%. The due to related balance is due to IGW REIT LP, an entity related by virtue of directors in common. The amount is non-interest bearing and has no specified terms of repayment.”
IS THIS THE INVESTORS MONEY??? PRETTY CAVALIER WITH THEIR $300M, WOULDN’T YOU SAY???
Liquidity Risk
This risk to League Investment Services Inc. is generally low. League Investment Services Inc.’s approach to managing liquidity is to ensure that it has sufficient cash and or credit facilities available to meet its obligations when due.
WHAT??? LIKE MORTGAGES AND INVESTOR DISTROS??? YOU ARE SUCH A BULLSHITTER.
“On October 31, 2012, League Assets Corp. and IGW REIT provided a guarantee for up to $25 million in respect to
promissory notes issued by League Opportunity Fund Ltd, a related party. Both parties to the guarantee are jointly and severally liable for any breach in the terms. As at June 20, 2013, a total of $13.5 million in notes have been issued and
further issuances are closed. The guarantee expires in March 2014 concurrent with the maturity of the promissory notes. The guarantee includes a condition requiring IGW REIT to maintain a minimum net asset balance, as defined within the guarantee, of $145 million. As at the issuance date of the financial statements, the terms of the guarantee, in particular the definition of the minimum net asset balance, are being modified to exclude income priority units.”
REALLY??? HAVE THOSE UNITHOLDERS BEEN INFORMED OF THIS???
Explain why investors who tell you EVERY DAY that they want to be put back in the queue are not allowed to. And, why you won’t BUY THEIR SHARES BACK AT 50%???
BECAUSE IGW REIT OPERATES AT A CONSTANT LOSS. IGW REIT IS INSOLVENT. BUT YOU KEEP TAKING YOUR EFFIN FEES.
Moving on to “Colwood Assets”.
Explain how in the world you arrive at the value? Explain why there is a judgement against you (and the short guy). Explain who actually is ON TITLE FOR THE PROPERTIES. Explain how you think you can obtain construction financing when you are in foreclosure. Explain how you can possibly think you will get pre-sales on condos, in the tiny village of Colwood.
Explain why, when interest rates are so low, Colwood should pay 14% interest to IGW REIT(which is insolvent).
Explain why, considering that League Assets is such a COLOSSAL FAILURE as a manager, why you are paying LAC enormous fees to manage this pile of crap???
I am just past page 100 of your 660 page prospectus. I am not a lawyer. I am not an accountant. DO YOU REALLY THINK THE LAWYERS AND ACCOUNTANTS AT BCSC CAN’T SEE THROUGH THIS LOAD???
TELL YOUR LAWYERS, WHO ARE PAID WITH INVESTORS MONEY, TO STOP SENDING ME THOUSANDS OF PAGES OF SPECIOUS CRAP. EARN YOUR FEES. GET TO WORK. OR LIQUIDATE.
Very quickly losing sympathy for some folks.
AJ??
There are only a handfull at best that have money in the league that post on here?
your not going to have a rush of people wanting to get in a Class action lawsuit solely on what you have posted here.A person need,s a client list so they can be informed as to whats going on.Not many investors are anywhere near as well versed as you are on league situation.
Very busy day. Anyone interested in participating in a Class Action please email me ASAP.
[audio src="http://web.archive.org/web/20100927090858/http://league.ca/download/Talk_To_The_Experts_2008.mp3" /]
after listening to this PATHETIC interview can anyone spell “PATHOLOGICAL LIARS”
finally had to shut off the interview as I was starting to puke all over my keyboard
please contact me right away. ajmbconsulting@gmail.com
sent u mail hour ago? check your inbox
And, just to be clear Manny, I have spoken with the police, and have also let your lawyers know that I am concerned for my safety. I KNOW what you and Gant are capable of.
AJ I totally understand your frustration but posting paranoia helps no one.
Their UNDOING is going to be their massive egos, with a modicum of intelligence and less integrity. They really think we are stupid. I’ve got news…I have reams of paperwork filled with lies and obfuscation. They need to liquidate, pay the investors, and stop.
8/12/13 League’s IGW REIT Units and Income Priority Units Receive “Investment Grade” Ratings
http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/leagues-igw-reit-units-and-income-priority-units-receive-investment-grade-ratings-1336991.htm 1/2
News Room
Em ail Print Frie ndly Share
League Assets Corp.
October 18, 2010 20:32 ET
League’s IGW REIT Units and Income Priority Units Receive
“Investment Grade” Ratings
VICTORIA, BRITISH COLUMBIA–(Marketwire – Oct. 18, 2010) – League Assets Corp.
announced today that an independent analyst has assigned League’s Class A, AA, and AAA
IGW REIT Units and its IGW Income Priority Units investment grade ratings of STA-2 and BBB
respectively.
The report written was by Calgary-based ExemptAnalysis Inc. (EA). EA considers the Income
Priority Units to be investment grade and have rated this second debt position as BBB. EA
also rates League’s IGW Class A, AA, and AAA units as STA-2 investment grade and believes
League’s IGW REIT can maintain distribution stability. The report also singled out IGW REIT’s
cost structure, noting that management appears to have created a low cost structure,
keeping fees to investors comparatively low.
“Our mandate is complete investor transparency,” says Emanuel Arruda, Founding Partner of
the League Group of Companies. “The results of this independent analysis just one more
reason for investors to have confidence in their IGW REIT investment.”
“The analyst’s report is based on the IGW REIT’s audited financials, prepared by KPMG,”
added Adam Gant, the League Group’s other Founding Partner. “We’re pleased to have yet
another set of independent professionals echo everything that we’ve been saying about the
IGW REIT all along.”
League currently has approximately $600 million in assets under management, with total
build-out value of approximately $2 billion. This includes the IGW REIT, a $230 million Real
Estate Investment Trust, comprised of a portfolio of Canadian commercial, industrial and
residential properties, as well as a number of individual Limited Partnerships. League finds,
acquires, improves and operates these investment properties on behalf of more than 2,500
Member-Partner investors.
This document is for information purposes only and is not an offer to sell or a solicitation of an
offer to purchase securities. Any offering will be made by way of offering memorandum or, in
Ontario and Quebec, will be made only to accredited investors or those investing more than
$150,000.
There are risks associated with this investment, which risks are discussed in the offering
memorandum and subscription agreement. You are encouraged to read the offering
memorandum (available upon request) and the subscription agreement before making your
investment decision.
ExemptAnalyst provides independent, third-party research on alternative investments and
exempt market securities for Exempt Market Dealers (EMDs), EMD registered agents and EMD
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8/12/13 League’s IGW REIT Units and Income Priority Units Receive “Investment Grade” Ratings
http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/leagues-igw-reit-units-and-income-priority-units-receive-investment-grade-ratings-1336991.htm 2/2
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company employees only. ExemptAnalyst does not provide research or advice to non registrants.
Reports by ExemptAnalyst do not constitute an offering of securities and cannot be distributed to
investors or be circulated as investor suitability advice. EMDs, EMD registered agents and EMD
company employees still must consult Offering Memorandums. ExemptAnalyst’s initial opinion
and rating of IGW REIT Units and Income Priority Units expire March 25, 2011.
Download League’s proprietary investment book, The Blue Book of Real Estate Syndication,
and the Company Backgrounder booklet at http://www.league.ca.
Contact Information
League Assets Corp.
Michael Cnudde
250-595-9322
media@league.ca
http://www.league.ca
what a friend of mine in the reit business told me today when I asked him if ever heard of this outfit
Quote:Only in reference to League… often these types of “reviews” are in conjunction with payment by the reviewed. I’ve been contacted by similar companies but it is specifically because of this payment that is required that I don’t trust them and will not get involved with any of them. It strikes me as an odd relationship – I’ll pay you to review my investment, but if it is a bad review I’ll never pay you again??
They either changed their name or no longer exist – maybe based on the fact that they are morons if they rated League’s investment as anything but high risk junk.
Here’s another pile of you-know-what they published that investors have relied upon. I cannot find anything about the company mentioned in the article that did the analysis. Can you?
http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/leagues-igw-reit-units-and-income-priority-units-receive-investment-grade-ratings-1336991.htm
PS Manny, I have the hard copy
vanished into thin air like all our money?
At the end of the report it likely states that the report was paid for by League. This was very common in 2008/2009 when a lot of these firms sprung up after legal changes required a seperation of investment banking and research roles.
Hmmm.
Looks like the link content has now been removed.
I have hard copy. Aren’t they busy little boys?
League, as manager, limits its interest in IGW’s properties to a 20-per-cent stake in the appreciation of the properties’ value on their sale. This ties the principals’ compensation to the performance of the assets within IGW’s portfolio.
Marvin Quiring, a resident of Chase, B.C., and an early investor in League’s portfolio, said the firm’s approach commands a respect he believes not many other real estate investment companies enjoy.
This from an article in 2008. Marvin Quiring was an agent for League who made some fat commissions
It’s founded upon the Golden Rule, with an entrepreneurial twist.
As Arruda explains: “We don’t get paid until the rest of our member-partners receive an increase in their investment returns.
This was from an article written in a national magazine in 2005
“If you can’t dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.”
― W.C. Fields
Every single investor who has communicated with me privately and those that are talking in here, say that they were lied to. That is very easy to prove. If you relied on them telling you the truth to make your investment decision, it is provable that they have lied. Over and over. Or at the very least, obfuscated the truth. At least call your local police, and tell them what has happened. They will tell you what kind of proof you need for them to bring charges.
Let’s start with their ages! According to Manny, he has a degree in science (this was printed in a national publication). Let’s give him the benefit of the doubt, and say he graduated high school at 18. Four years later he has a degree. Add 10 years as the owner of Hugh Jass Productions, and another 5 doing that business consulting thing he claims in his online resume, and now the past 11 years (some claims are that League was started in 2004, some claim 2005 and some 2007) that puts him somewhere around 47 to 50 years old? My foot. I know that Gant was 23 when they started this mess, and he claims years and years of management experience…sure, but all at League! Investors rely upon management experience. They have to. If you believed (as I am sure you must have) that they were highly experienced property managers, or had degrees, or years and years of business experience, you were lied to. Period.
They have also lied in their offering docs. They say that they will make SECURED loans (with your money). They have made un-secured loans with your money to other companies they own, contrary to what you were told. CRA frowns on co-mingling of funds. There is a similar business in Ontario that recently was shut down, called First Leaside. Here is a link to a national post article. Very familiar.
http://business.financialpost.com/2013/06/05/first-leaside-before-osc-to-answer-fraud-allegations/
People also need to understand that just because financials are AUDITED, it does not mean that the auditor is making a comment about the viability of the business; just that the numbers jive. I would give a call to KPMG, get an appointment with one of their financial advisers (I think the first 30 minutes is free), and get an opinion from them whether or not this is a good investment.
I’ve been served with an injunction, to be heard on August 20. If I am found guilty, I will happily stop talking about this forever. I doubt very much that I will be found guilty.
Time is of the essence, my friends. There is strength in numbers.
Here is what a well known BC Lawyer that deals in BCSC lawsuits told me last October.WisH I had known this in 2011 when I started to get cold feet on the DUNCAN LP.
You probably know in addition to your common law rights to sue for damages, you have by law 180 days to rescind the transaction i.e. get your money back. You also have a statutorily-imposed three year period in which to sue for misrepresentations made in the OM, again in addition to your common law rights. This right is regardless of whether or not you actually relied on the misrepresentation(s) in the OM.t
Thanks Solidfiction. I was sold the 10% Convertible not too long ago and now felt being misled. Will appreciate if you could tell the procedures to rescind the transaction if you know it.
LinShi
A lawyer by the name of Carey Veinotte told me this.IF your under 180 days Iam sure these carpetbagers know full well they have to give you your money back
Contacte your so called “weath managment rep” and tell him u want it returned under the 180 day rule
Thanks Solid
BCSC has a parameter they must function within. I am sorry that people have lost money, believe me. This is just the beginning. If you don’t all band together, whether you’ve lost $30K or $3M, they will win by default. They will likely never take this pile of shit to the public market, and if they do, the share value will be next to nothing if not nothing at all. I was just served with an injunction trying to shut me up. They are getting very nervous. As soon as someone has serious evidence to show the RCMP, they can at least be kept from liquidating their personal assets, or hiding them off shore. Someone needs to organize against them. I can give you ammo (proof of most of their lies, obfuscation, losses and debt). Investors will be LAST to get anything out of this unless you act. I still think you could, if you work at it, call for another shareholders vote and get them fired as the managers. They have spent so much effort HIDING, and burying everything that it will be difficult. However, if the RCMP is involved, there is a hope of getting their investor data base, and that would be a start.
A class action only take two parties to start.
what you say makes a lot of sense but from what i know and see there is nothing the RCMP can or will do ?
So…let’s pick a date and a location and meet! What’s the best way to plan a meeting and let everyone know?
Hi Stephen: As I said before I’d be more than willing to meet with you and anyone else interested to get the ball rolling. You can e mail me and we’ll take from there. Thanks again.
I think your a day late and a dollar short.If these scum bags have or had done anything illegal based on the amount of BCSC complaints filed against them the authority s would have stepped in by now. I say wait and see where the public offering leads us
Plus Iam not interested in getting involved with anyone whom has only lost 30 or 40 or 50K.
Quote from May says it all.
42ndstreet says:
May 14, 2013 at 8:13 pm
i worked at League inthe very early stages and left as soon as I realized the lack of moral fibre the leadership tea, displayed. They always gave less than a crap about its clients. I can’t believe the unit holders, are taking this and staying silent. There should be massive public outcry, utilize media, whatever you can to shine a light on these two thieves. When this hits the TSX, losses will be massive and the time too have protested will have passed.
League is full of untrustworthy, misguided, unskilled and uneducated advisors. I came from Toronto, from a bank run brokerage house too Victoria, then League to find uneducated, uncaring, unaware advisors selling product to people. Unit holders must support the removal of Adam Gant from managing the IGW REIT, sign the blue cards, not Gold. Go to the streets and media–expose the sham that is taking place, if you don’t there really is no one to blame but yourselves.
Especially this part of the quote:
“”There should be massive public outcry, utilize media, whatever you can to shine a light on these two thieves. “”
Interesting tidbit.I just got my newsletter from Skyline Wealth Management out of ontario.Jason Castellan(owner) claims they stay in the 55% loan to Value range which protects the distributions paid to unit holdes.They currently own and manage ONE BILLION in residential and commercial reits.Too bad Gant and Arruda were not as astut as this guy is when it comes to other peoples money
I bet Leagues is in the 80% range( or worse)
Class Action. RCMP. Have their personal assets seized and them arrested before they can skip the country
Hi Allison: Would you kindly mail me to cc.promethe.us@gmail.com. In reference to your comments: ” Class action, RCMP” Even if you’re not interested yourself, I’d very much like to hear your ideas. Thank you so much Steve
From what I understand, there is no financing associated with the public listing so any issues related to foreclosure, liens, debt repayment, etc will not initially be resolved simply by having the company traded on an exchange. The ranking of some of the debt (ie the IPUs) may change but League is still promising to pay a distribution. Nobody can predict what price a stock will trade at but it is basic supply/demand that states the price will go down if there is a lineup of people at the exits to sell.
Colwood and Duncan are not the only issues. Looking at the most recent filings League took a major write-down on other assets. From what I can tell, Duncan and Colwood are still being carried at full value. Looking at what League has sold over the past couple of years, nothing had made them a lot of money and lots of propertis were sold below sunk costs.
Agreed.I never meant that Duncan and colwood were their only misdeeds but I still think there the major contributing factor.There are other things like too many exspensive fancy offices,too many employees,KPMG are vey very expsensive to hire, Hidden+disclosed mangements fees are unreal when u factor in everything in the last 7 years. paying 10-12-14% in mortgage rates
Looking at Duncan Financials the Rental income does not even begin to pay interest rates on mortgages against this mall so it just gets worse as the months go by etc
You can expect the League and its iterations to file for bankruptcy if it can not get the public offerings approved, which is likely .It would be hard for BCSC or Ontario to approve these as all the securities commissions have to do is delay until the League collapses and the problem goes away for the securities commissions.. The League needs to stop the foreclosures of mortgages and mechanic liens on Colwood as well as other collection activities The boys can continue to receive fees as managers of the bankrupt entity especially from Partners REIT. This lasts until Timbercreek liquidates the Partners shares and all the other assets that Timbercreek holds security on. Basically it will be a fire sale . There is a lot money for the receiver to milk the bankrupt estate too.
Iam of the opinion things are not quit as dire as you people are making it seem.
I think the public offering will happen and in the end it will be the lessor of two evils..If League filled for BK there will be far less money for distribution verses
receiving 25.00 shares that even if u sold for 15.00.Iam talking about IPU holders.Any geneal REIT share holder is really screwed either way.
What really is a shame is that if these two had stuck to the gameplan and not put millions into black holes like Collwood and Duncan we would be in decent shape
no mod?
Looks like several financings under IGW Public and League Investment over the past few months in an amount close to $5M. The BCSC website lists them.
Stuart;
On a slightly unrelated request… Is there, or can there be, a meeting (in person or on line) with all participants (at least in the LML) to discuss everything and to determine the proper course of action in order to achieve solidarity in this matter. There is alot at stake here for me and I need to be sure of what my next move should be and when.
Do you know how this could be organized? (I’m addressing this to you because you seem to have alot of knowledge and seem to have been aware of all that has happened longer than me.) 🙂
Stephen.I would have agreed a year ago but think the time(opportunity) for that is gone. When and if the IPO application gets shot down then we need to decide which direction to go
So from what you guys are understanding, is the best course of action to be on the redeeming list or wait until the (doubtful) public offering happens? If you are on the redemption list, how long can u possibly wait and what (if anything) can you expect to get back?
AJ or Rachelle are probably closest to this deal at the moment and may have more insight. If this were a public company then you could get enough shareholders together to vote in a new board or slate of trustees. I haven’t read the IGW documents closely enough but my guess is that unitholders don’t have that right within this structure.
Although I am not privy to any financings that League may be conducting with private lenders, what has been filed recently with the BCSC shows that their traditional sources of financing (ie sales under securities exemptions) have been few and far between. Ihaven’t seen any movement on any of the 3 public offerings that League has under review at the moment either.
It is a bad position to be in but I don’t see what real options there are in the next few months.
Thanks Stuart!
so basically there is no loan. they simply(as they always do) took league investment moneys and bought more shares. Boy I tell you this is sure a longways off the “we buy rundown commercial propertys and fix em up and rent them out”. I “curse” the day I got involved in the league and these two guys
I have seen the SA’s for either entitiy but it looks like some sort of convertible debt based on the terms outlined in the filings. Call it a loan or an investment it is still OPM.
Looks like League Public LP borrowed the money to buy the shares.
Borrowed fromwho?
Has anybody tried to organize/create a group where we could put a common front to these guys?
I’m amazed that no information has made to the media and they keep acting as if nothing has happened.
You could be right. IGW Public bought the shares and the others could be showing as insiders of IGW Public and Partners.
yes i believe that it was just the way insider.com listed it.Iam pretty sure it was 675K shares or less .still a poor investment if they realy did buy those shares as its down to around 6.50
any way one views it was that its 5 million sent unwisely when it could have been used to pay retractions and monthly distributions.Just another example of careless disregard for the investors well being in my personal opinion
Each of the 4 entities purchased 575K and 100K shares is how I read it, 4 x 675K is 2.7M shares.
Check canadianInsider.com. Purchases were made in April / May of this year. 575K x 4 at $8.50 and 100K x 4 at $7.70. My guess was that the purchases were made to help League win the proxy battle.
yes I saw that deal a couple months back.it was a weird listing because it showed gant and arruda names? but a hell of long ways from 2.7 million shares you claimed in the previous post
when did they buy 2.7 million shares? No record of that on insider trading?
and i seriously doubt they have or IGW reit has 22 million to spend on shares
How did Romspen Financial manage to get two judgements (one against Manny and one against Adam) for nearly $1.5 each?
Reply
How did Romspen Financial manage to get two judgements (one against Manny and one against Adam) for nearly $1.5 each?
The Landlordrescue blog is showing documents from the Grizzly / Colwood lawsuit. Les and League have been battling for years so you need to remind yourself that the allegations are unproven. Les is stating that League / Adam Gant falsified GST documentation in order to avoid paying GST on the purchase of Colwood Corners.
I find it hard to believe that after all of the years that local media has spent documenting Colwood Corners as the largest development the region has even seen, that nothing about the work slowdown / stoppage and various lawsuits has been mentioned. Colwood is even planning to use the project for waster water treatment and exit from the CRD plan.
I received this email last night, (redacted):
…”in Ontario, we are currently experiencing an almost identical scam that fortunately the Ontario Securities Commission shut down and arrested the principals. That scam name is First Leaside, but it’s essentially the same modus operandi even down to liberal use of the phrase “Intergenerational Wealth” in their marketing material. The similar elements are raising funds to buy real estate that doesn’t return the amount that must be paid out as distributions, grandiose imprudent improvements, escalation and duration of construction, comingling of funds between companies. (League now at $99 million) above average fees, act as their own exempt market dealer, no oversight of compliance with accredited investor rules. League is not operating using any recognizable real estate business plan. They are not sustainable, but before they die they can wipe out another round of ill fated investors. ”
Manny and Adam each have had judgements placed against them for failure to pay taxes, each to the tune of over $1M.
Personally, I like the “arrested the principals” part the best. This absolutely MUST happen soon here. I am willing to help with a class action if I can.
Why viewers still make use of to read news papers when in this technological world the whole thing is accessible on
net?
The claims in this document are insane.
Click to access partners-reit-report.pdf
Insane? no, misleading ? Yes.That form is from way back in 2012. when SP reached 8.70.Not sure where they got the rather inflated 400+ million assett base.?PAR web site claims 192 million in assett,s(book vaue) as of early 2013.current value is 170M market cap based on 6.6 SP.The other thing was its all hypothetical because the IGW reit never sold any shares that iam aware of an if they were smart with our money they would have sold at the 7/8 ish range and bought back in the 5 ish range making the IGW reit aound 11-12 Million dollars.However that is sometimes harder to do than say whenyour league IGW REIT managers also happen to be the PAR.un manager.
Well IGW, Gant and Arruda bought about 2.7M shares at $7.70 and $8.50 in the past few months. Don’t see that in their ROI calculations!
Defamation is the claim. They claim that my words cost them almost $2M. I hope so if it is $2M in new investors.
AJ. Stuart says you might be of help to shed a bit more insight to someone who is only 60 days in trying to understand what is going down here. So…
Is there, or can there be, a meeting (in person or on line) with all participants (at least in the LML) to discuss everything and to determine the proper course of action in order to achieve solidarity in this matter. There is alot at stake here for me and I need to be sure of what my next move should be and when.
Do you know how this could be organized? (I’m addressing this to you because you seem to have alot of knowledge and seem to have been aware of all that has happened longer than me.) 🙂
Stephen: As I said before, I think that organizing a meeting of the affected parties is a must. Any action that we might endeavor to take as group would be much more significant and affordable. Thanks
I agree. How do we arrange a meeting time and place to get it out to all parties?
IMHO, TSX will have to determine whether their assets are actual assets considering the debt on all of them. I don’t know if they have to consider investor positions, or just the ‘regulated’ debt that is in first.
BTW, I got an amended claim, whereby they have changed the names of the parties suing me. It might have been a clerical error in the first one, which read: The plaintiffs League Investment Services Inc., League Assets Corp. and League IGW Real Estate Income Trust (“League REIT”) are wholly-owned subsidiaries of League Financial Partners (collectively, the “League Companies”). and has been amended to: The plaintiffs League Investment Services Inc. and League Assets Corp. are wholly-owned subsidiaries of League Assets Limited Partnership. The plaintiff League IGW Real Estate Investment Trust (“League REIT”) is wholly-owned by unitholders.
Is this because of the so-called vote last month?
Sueing you for what? telling + warning gullable investors(like me) how highly risky it was to invest in the league and that colwood was a black hole. Warning people that failure was a high likley hood? We should be suing these two assholes not the other way around ?? I feel like I got kicked in the nuts by those two when i was told that my 450K LP shares in Duncan LP were as good as gone ?
This is an extremly difficult financial prospectus to follow and even remotely understand.The large number of seperate identitys makes it triple hard to understand.
I cant see this deal going public because none of this makes any sense to me at all anymore.I dont undestand how these guys could take a failed LP like colwoodwas(used different name) and pump the millions more of borrowed mony from investors into this black hole they created.Gant and Arruda had to have known they could never substain distributions given the debt level they themselves created .JMPHFOP
see page 21
I wonder in the real world at todays levels what colwood is really worth at ths point in time? maybe 50 mill at best? anyone here know or have a educated guess. Its very clear to me colwood should have been left out of the IPO as was Duncan LP
Using the assumptions in the offering documents, the shareholders equity in Colwood is $4M. Technically Colwood is supposed to be rolled into Oriana which is then partially owned by LFP. There doesn’t appear to have been any update on the Oriana transaction since January though so it may be in doubt. There should, in my opinion, be disclosure in the offering documents about the $17M lawsuit over Redux Duncan. There is a boilerplate statement about lawsuits from time to time but it is hard to argue that $17M isn’t a material amount.
If you look at what the land at Aquattro recently sold for, it was about $1 million per acre. There are about 25 acres at Colwood. Given both properties have development approval but Colwood has developed commercial buildings and can be used to develop offices, a good guess would be that Colwood is worth about $35 to $40 million. That is the amount of all the interests such as mortgages and liens secured on the title. There may be nothing left in equity for any of the investors. In other words it can be argued that the unrecognized losses exceed $90 million and everybody has been wiped out. One thing is certain is that unless there is new financing in 60 days, all is lost. The new lawsuits foreshadow what is coming. It would be interesting to find out what Timbercreek is doing with its loan to the League as the loan is due and payable now.
It is hard to determine if the contractor was paid for the parking garage. It appears it was not. That garage is valueless unless the tower is built.
As for the lawsuit against A.J., unless the League gets money to pay its lawyers, the lawsuit will not be pursued as lawyers do not work for free.
So what your saying is even though colwood is a seperate LP The league cosigned(guaranteed) a loan from timbercreek to ColwoodLP?On top of the millions of IGW reit money already lent to colwood project.
If that is true then these two are even worse managers than I first suspected.
I mean who in their right mind given this information on the OM when investing in the league would have gone forward investing had this issue been disclosed?? My opinion is no one
http://www.sedar.com/CheckCode.do;jsessionid=0000uLLBgRjmNg2vgtWqGnaY14Z:17lkkjui4
A new month, and no more google ads that I have seen yet today.
Drove by CCC today. Nothing is happening. Not a soul there.
http://online.wsj.com/article/PR-CO-20130723-909313.html
Why is League allowed to keep advertising all over the internet? They claim you will “own a piece of commercial real estate” for as little as $1000, and send you to their wonderful little piece of marketing drivel, The Blue Book. Nowhere in their prospectus do they mention the millions owed to investors. Duncan was a complete loss for investors: and they are just rolling everything into this crap.
LEAGUE’S LEADING VALUES AND ETHICS EXPLORED AT PRESTIGIOUS FORUM;One of the great joys of my job is being able to share the story of how we at LEAGUE set the standard when it comes to operating by a clear set of ethical values.
AKA a real crock of horseshit .Man the nerve of this guy after the way things have gone. this guys got more gall and nerve than Dick tracey ever had
I tryed to watch this Vidio but I got so much puke on my screen i had to shut it down.This guys a legend (only in his own mind)
I liked being reminded about the tenant that says that we don’t prosper until you do.
LEAGUE’S LEADING VALUES AND ETHICS EXPLORED AT PRESTIGIOUS FORUM
Thursday, February 2, 2012
Dear Member-Partners and Member Candidates,
One of the great joys of my job is being able to share the story of how we at LEAGUE set the standard when it comes to operating by a clear set of ethical values. In formal business terminology, it’s called values-based leadership. In layman’s terms, it means that we “do the right thing” in all our decisions and actions. It’s fully articulated in our Credo of 21 fundamental tenets, which guide us each and every day.
On the morning of Tuesday, February 7, I am honoured to have the opportunity to be part of a prestigious panel that will discuss values-based leadership in business. I cordially invite our Member-Partners and Member-Candidates who reside in the Lower Mainland to attend what promises to be an engaging and educational session.
Joining me on the panel, will be other speakers — most notably a keynote address by Dr. James Orbinski, the award-winning author, humanitarian and 1999 recipient of the Nobel Peace Prize, on behalf of Doctors Without Borders. Tor Eneroth, Culture Advisor to Volvo and Network Director for Barrett Values Centre, will also be speaking. Also joining me on the panel will be Bob Elton, Special Advisor to the Board, BC Hydro and Dr. Marilyn Taylor, Director, Institute for Values-Based Leadership, Royal Roads University.
The event will be held at the Pan Pacific Hotel in Vancouver, beginning with registration at 7:15 a.m., followed by breakfast and the program at 7:30. When the session ends at 11:10 there will be an opportunity for networking.
To register, please visit the Vancouver Board of Trade website at: http://www.boardoftrade.com/events/overview/4168279164.aspx
It would be wonderful if you would join me for what promises to be an inspiring morning of learning and lively discussion.
Warmest regards,
Emanuel F Arruda Signature
Emanuel F. Arruda
Co-Founder & Co-Chair
The LEAGUE Financial Partners
Learn. Earn. Live. Give.TM
IF YOU HAVE MONEY IN THIS CRAP, go to the RCMP. If you can remember WHY you invested, can show the exact words that they used to entice you, bring the document with you. They have been lying since day one; about their ages, their experience (Gant claimed 11 years R.E. experience back in 2008…must have started when he was 11. Manny claims to have owned a marketing company for ten years (HughJass Productions); they have made claims of DOUBLING YOUR EQUITY. In truth they are LIARS. Manny is a cheap little pitch man. He knows what greed is and how to appeal to the greedy in all of us.
THEY MUST HAVE THEIR PERSONAL ASSETS SEIZED. No where in this offering prospectus do they mention the investors. They act as though this is all their money. They have taken MILLIONS in fees from you.
Manny was on holiday in Paris when the distributions stopped. DID YOU VOTE TO HAVE YOUR DISTRIBUTIONS STOPPED??? Adam says you did. Do you have any proof otherwise??? Take it to the RCMP. This is a national issue. I will help you all I can.
Anyone have any idea how these two guys were allowed to take MANY Millions of IPU investment funds and put them into Colwood and duncan as mortgage moneys.? This something I just dont see as legal in any way
How would they ever exspect to pay 8+9% IPU distributions by lending many many millions to a trojen horse like colwood which will never have any revenue source for years to come
Like or not, investing in non-arms lengths entities was always a specified use of funds in the IGW OMs. The only issue I ever saw is that I remember that a couple of the OMs stated that IGW would make secured investments when in fact many turned out to be unsecured.
The only insurance needed by investors is about $40 million of key man insurance on Gant and Arruda.Please determine what it is? Then remember the operative phrase “swim with the fishes” especially with Gant’s ocean view property. Hopefully there is also a suicide waiver in the insurance policy. The mafia calls these “snuff policies’. Next find one real irate investor, preferably a retired person who has lost all and has a terminal illness. Time for Gant and Arruda to see Jesus literally.
The formatting won’t work, but here is the consolidated financial statement (including LISI, Colwood Development, Catalyst, IGW, etc.)
INC.
PRO FORMA COMBINED CONDENSED CONSOLIDATED STATEMENT OF OPERATIONS
FOR THE YEAR ENDED DECEMBER 31, 2012
(unaudited, in $ thousands)
(Note 1) Proposed or Completed Acquisitions
LAC LISI LOF Catalyst IGW REIT
Colwood
Development HF Adjustments Note Total
Income
Commissions and wealth management fees . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3,973 3,122 — 2,641 — — 11,481 (6,112) 3. 15,105
Revenue from income producing properties . . . . . . . . . . . . . . — — — — 17,289 — — — 17,289
Incentive management fees . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2,451 — — — — — — (250) 3. 2,201
Asset management fees . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9,508 — — — — — — (5,135) 3. 4,373
Overhead recoveries and other income . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2,435 — — — — 980 — (885) 3. 2,530
Interest income . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 574 — 79 — 12,611 — 103 (6,737) 3. 6,630
18,941 3,122 79 2,641 29,900 980 11,584 (19,119) 48,128
Expenses
General and administrative expenses . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12,210 630 324 656 4,952 1,897 58 (9,678) 3. 11,049
Salaries, benefits and commissions . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5,977 2,456 — 2,009 — — 10,320 — 20,762
Interest and financing costs . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1,156 4 192 8 10,737 26 — 286 4.a) 12,409
Depreciation . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 225 — — 3 — 28 — — 256
Property operating expenses . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . — — — — 7,564 630 — — 8,194
Amortization expense . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . — — — — — — 613 4.d) 613
Equity income . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . — — — — (4,349) — — — (4,349)
Restructuring costs . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 655 — — — 774 — — 686 4.b) 2,115
(Gains) /losses on disposal of properties . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . — — — — 584 — — — 584
(Gains)/losses on investments . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 311 — — — 993 — — — 1,304
Fair value (gains)/losses on available-for-sale financial
asse . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . — — — — (3,889) — — — (3,889)
Fair value (gains)/losses . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . — — — — 11,315 — — — 11,315
Impairment loss on loans to related parties . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 507 — — — 23,800 — — — 24,307
Distributions on Income Priority Units . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . — — — — 9,283 — — (9,283) 4.a) —
Distributions on common units . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . — — — — 3,739 — — (3,739) 4.a) —
21,041 3,090 516 2,676 65,503 2,581 10,378 (21,115) 84,670
Net income (loss) before tax . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (2,100) 32 (437) (35) (35,603) (1,601) 1,206 1,996 (36,542)
Current income taxes . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (231) 10 — (23) — — 174 — (70)
Deferred income taxes . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11 — — — — — — 153 4.d) 164
Net income (loss) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (1,880) 22 (437) (12) (35,603) (1,601) 1,032 1,843 (36,636)
See Notes to Pro Forma Combined Condensed Consolidated Financial Statements
Does anyone remember this, or know if it is just another piece of marketing bafflegab?
NEW INSURANCE POLICIES PROVIDING EVEN MORE PROTECTION FOR MEMBER-PARTNERS’ INVESTMENTS
Thursday, July 23, 2009
Greetings Member-Partners and friends,
To further safeguard the capital of its Member-Partners and to protect them against acts of internal malfeasance, League Assets is proud to announce two new insurance policies:
An Executive Liability policy, which provides up to $10,000,000 of protection against any single loss;
An Employee Fidelity policy, which provides up to $5,000,000 of protection against any single loss.
The first policy assures that all of League’s investments are protected against wrongful acts unintentionally committed by, or at the direction of the Directors. The second policy protects investors from acts of fraud by League staff members.
Of course League’s principals owe a duty of good faith to any of the entities of which they are directors or officers and the positively inter-dependent structure of League’s investments assures management’s interests are aligned with the investors’. Moreover, wilful or material misrepresentation in any of League’s offering documents continue to carry penalties under applicable securities laws. So while Member-Partners have always been protected by League’s investment structure and applicable laws, now they are additionally covered by these policies.
We all know that certain investment managers have recently been found or suspected to have carried out fraud on a massive scale, causing pain and suffering to families and charitable organizations that entrusted their investments to them. Such actions show what happens when greed takes control.
However, in no way does the purchase of these policies question the competence of our team members. In fact, it is a testament to their professionalism. This is because to qualify for the insurance, League submitted itself to a rigorous investigation by Aon Reed Stenhouse Inc., an insurance broker with offices worldwide. After examining our business and our policies, standards, and practices, the underwriters concluded that League poses such a low risk, that we were “worthy” of being covered — and at a preferred rate.
Although I knew this to be true long before the process began, having the fact independently confirmed by term risk managers pleased me greatly.
I’d like to emphasize that we did not undertake to purchase this insurance because we were told we should. We did so voluntarily because it is the right thing to do. Furthermore, the two policies are being paid for by League — not from the proceeds of any investment entities. We are pleased to do so in the name of positive-interdependence, the overriding principle that governs all our decisions and operations.
In our constant pursuit of excellence, we are happy to have added even more assurance for current and future Member-Partners’ that their capital, and the wealth of their future generations, are in trustworthy hands. My partner Adam Gant and I, along with all League staff, are bound by Our Credo. It is our guiding philosophy. It is who and what we are, and it guides all our decision-making every day.
We are not among those who believe mediocrity is a safe resting place. We believe that as Member-Partners in League, you are deserving of more than the standard fare. We set high standards for ourselves, and daily we see to it that in every arena in which we operate we continually aim to exceed all others.
The acquisition of these two new insurance policies reinforces our intention of making League so good that you won’t hesitate to invite your friends and colleagues to join you in member-partnership. The faster League grows, the greater our ability to create new services and wealth-building opportunities for all.
Should you have any questions about this or any other matter, please do not hesitate to call your Member Services Manager, or me. As your fellow Member-Partners, we take great pride in helping you achieve Intergenerational Wealth™ — for you and your family.
Warmly and sincerely,
Emanuel F. Arruda, Founding Partner
League Assets Corp.
Learn, Earn, Live, Give.™
——————————————————————-
“As I grow older I pay less attention to what men say.
I just watch what they do.”
– Andrew Carnegie –
——————————————————————-
About League Assets Corp.
Click to download:
League’s Corporate Backgrounder
League’s Corporate Philanthropy
Case Studies in Member-Partnership
League’s Commitments
League: The World’s Intergenerational Wealth™ Institution
League Assets Corp. manages the IGW REIT, one of North America’s fastest growing private Real Estate Investment Trusts, comprising a portfolio of Canadian commercial and retail properties diversified by asset type and location. The trust exists to find, acquire, improve, and manage profitable real estate properties across the country, and to offer shared ownership in these assets to other like-minded investors — referred to by League as its Member-Partners. Combined with its other investment pools, League is currently managing and developing assets with approximate build-out values totaling $2 billion.
To date, League has partnered with the families of its more than 1,500 Members — primarily through shared ownership of its specially-selected real estate based investments. It is League’s aim to empower the families of its Member-Partners through the provision of Intergenerational Wealth™ so that they can improve the quality of their own lives and ultimately be able to contribute to improvement in the quality of the lives of others.
For more information, read The Blue Book of Real Estate Syndication.
How to Join League
If you’ve already read the Blue Book, just complete and return a Notice of Interest form (below) for either the IGW REIT, or one of League’s other investment pools.
Once received, your Member Services Manager will send you the Investment Overview, along with the applicable offering documents including a form of subscription agreement and either a limited partnership agreement or an offerning memorandum, as applicable.
If you have any questions or need help understanding any of the material, your Member Services Manager is always available to help.
Download the Notice of interest form:
Notice of Interest for the IGW REIT
Notice of Interest for any other investment
Where to get help:
Need help with your subscription or questions about an investment?
Call 1-877-772-8836 and ask to speak with a Member Services Manager.
Looking for status updates on our projects?
News and updates are released to all our members simultaneously and posted on our website as quickly as confirmed information is supplied.
To read the latest, visit: http://www.league.ca/updates.html.
Other Information Regarding the IGW REIT:
New unit values are announced on the last day of February, May, August and November.
The State of the Units Report is published quarterly in March, June, September and December on the Updates page of League’s website. This includes detailed updates on ongoing activities at each property.
Distribution payments begin on the 21st day of the month following the day you invest. You need not wait until the next revaluation to subscribe and begin receiving your distribution payment.
Tax slips are issued for Limited Partnership and REIT unitholders by March 31st each year. Please note that electronic filing is not possible for Limited Partnerships less than one year old.
To review how the revaluations are performed, click here or review the Frequently Asked Questions section of the current Investment Overview available in the Members Area of League’s website.
I don’t think we will even get to discovery. They are delusional. How they think that this debt ridden, badly managed, losing proposition could be traded publicly is beyond me, and likely TSX.
AJ Are you refering to colwood? or IGW REIT partners? two different things and Colwood as far as I know i not included in the public share debaticle?
I urge you to study the prospectus: sedar.com search League Investments
Absolutely insane in my opinion. If I am reading the statements correctly, IGW lost $36M last year (largely on write-downs of assets), yet League was paid nearly $15M in fees. Looking at the list of properties League has sold over the past several years, most have either lost money or made a very small return. It is also worth noting that IGW iappears to be carrying its loan to Duncan Mall at full value even though the project is obviously in difficulty and IGW is being sued to cover a $17M debt.
Colwood has about $4M in equity, how you get to $129M in value is beyond me. I guess you can ask the question during discovery AJ!
the worst thing here is the fact that Gant and Arruda took IGW investors money and poured it into both the Duncan mall and Colwood which were really their own personal wet dream.Seems unfair and cant understand how its leagle for these two to be able to entice people into investing in the league and then force all the debt unto the investment that any normal person believd to be a resonable and prudent reit investment which Duncan and especially colwood are not and infact extremely long term ultra high risk.
The League has filed an amended prospectus today-.go to SEDAR.com and search League.
Basically it all revolves on the value of Colwood being greater than $129,000,000. Also the Colwood current liabilities exceed current assets by an enormous amount, that is, it is insolvent according to conventional accounting tests.What is interesting is that trade liabilities are over $7.5 million.That could be to the contractor who is closing down work. Also sales deposits are $84,000 as of March 31. Not many units
The IGW REIT sold numerous properties in first 3 months of year to reduce liabilities.
You are looking at a dead whale unless the financing goes through.
Whenever I want to ruin my day I just read Aruddas opening statement on the DuncanLP.Here,s a excert from his Om(what i call it)
“And finally as the income stream materializes from all the retail tenants we plan to refinance or sell the whole project .The later WILL (not may) create “SIGNIFICANT”
increased value for member-partners.Construction should be completed within two years(took 4) and our goal is to generate at least a 20% annualized return”!!
well as everyone know,s its not sold and no member partner will ever likely see a dime of the original Lp investment in Duncan LP returned to them(us)
Now they claim to have $2B under management. Wow. Visit Vibrant Victoria. Mike K was at the Colwood site and talked to some workers. Pretty funny. Gant responded REALLY fast.
My question is:
If I get in the redemption cue, will I get my full value back…even if I have to wait a year or more…OR if I wait to get the shares do I stand to lose even more when I sell my units on the open market?
League is fast!
The following response was submitted to us by Adam Gant.
Quote:
“While we are finishing closing the public company combination transaction Farmer construction is completing the remaining work on the underground parking contracts before we sign the final main contract to build out the vertical building components after getting to ground level.
It will be late August before the final contract is signed and until that time the crew size will be smaller to finish up the remaining work on the existing [contracts].”
I do not know what the individuals meant when they spoke of funding issues. Could just be a loss through translation once something works itself
down the ladder.end of quote
REALLY?? what does finishing the public company have to do with the work on this project?and funding issues have been the Gants biggest problems sameas the duncan mall deal is behind on a eighteen million ,mortgage issue
League acquired Harris Green recently which added a fair amount to the assets under administration. looks like Harris revenue and earnings are declining quite a bit however.
what happens if all investors complain to the BCSC? Does it help in getting our $ back faster or stall the process…or do nothing?
kinda makes one wonder where the BCSC is in all this when one reads this utterly rediculous crap.? they must really have their heads up their collective arses?>??
(BCSC)
For private companies the BCSC acts on a complaint basis. If a number of people complain about an investment then they will investigate. If nobody complains or the complaint is outside of their enforcement capabilities then nothing will get done.
yes your right I was just venting as per usuall. I just need to come to terms and realize once and for all I have lost over 300K to date and im sure more to come
Its just so frustrating and madning when you read the complete garabge these guys fed me and i was dumb enough to beleive. sad but true
I am old enough to remember doing business on a handshake. I think you might be too. Makes us easy prey
❶Arms:
The shield is silver and on it is a gold column of the Doric
order flanked on either side by a gold shield.
The classical column and the division line represent
security and a strong structure, thus alluding to secure
investments and the fact that League invests in real estate.
The two shields symbolize the principles of “positive interdependence”
and “Member-Partnership” that
League’s founders put in place to protect
League’s investors and investments.The
discs represent coins and therefore
intergenerational wealth, while the
sextant, a navigational tool, indicates that
League
exists to seek out good properties
for its investors and to
provide expert direction.
❷ Supporters:
On the (viewer’s) left is a lion, and on
the right is an ox. Both are upright,
coloured yellow, and around their necks
is a blue collar, on which is a length of
anchor chain in white and yellow.The
supporters stand on a base of
grass and earth, which represents
the value of land and real estate.
The lion represents courage and
leadership, while the ox
represents hard work, strength, and persistence.The chain
links around their collars refer to the linking of investors in
common goals, for which reason the name “League” was
chosen for the firm.They are shown as anchor links, which are
particularly strong.
❸ Crest (above the shield and helmet):
A rock on which is a blue beacon (a metal “basket” placed
on a pole with supports and a ladder) with yellow flames.
This is set on a steel helmet facing forward with an open
visor, and draped with cloth mantling in blue and yellow,
set in place by a wreath of twisted cloth in these colours.
The rock indicates a firm foundation on
which League’s investments are based.The
beacon connotes several meanings: the
flame refers to the light of knowledge and
League’s commitment to educating and
informing its Member-Partners, while
the beacon itself, which was a way to
show travellers the way to a safe
destination, represents the
service League offers to
investors.
❹ The helmet with visor open
suggests transparency of
information, and that League’s
operations are dependent upon
following its core principals, rather
than any single leader.
❺ Motto:
The motto is “My word is my
bond, my honour is my glory” and
indicates the importance League
places on trust and honourable conduct.
WE BELIEVE that investing together with a harmonious group of experts and friends,
makes our investments all the more stable, secure, and, just as importantly, enjoyable.
As long as we remain a private institution, we shall reserve the right to select, accept
and retain only like-minded, like-tempered, and well-reputed individuals into our
group, whose characters and ideals harmonize with our own.We will do this with the
aim of constantly cultivating a harmonious environment in which to achieve, while
avoiding distractions or interruptions to our ongoing business operations.When
making our selections we shall not discriminate against any person because of age, race,
gender, disability, religious or spiritual beliefs, familial status, or national origin.
WE BELIEVE that all our Member-Partners have equal value, even if they don’t have
equal wealth.
WE BELIEVE our membership is comprised of extraordinary individuals who are
deserving of respect.We respect them foremost for the effort, care, and constraint it
took to produce, accumulate, and save their investment capital. Having their capital
entrusted to our care, we will manage it with exceptional ability on their behalf. If the
day ever comes that we cannot find a profitable place to invest their capital, we shall
pay those Member-Partners out, so that they may deploy their own funds as best they
can.When the time comes that suitable opportunities once again present themselves,
they shall be offered the first option to invest, ahead of all others.
OUR
COMMITMENT
A brief statement of our standards and practices
INFORMATION&COMMUNICATION
WE BELIEVE that as leaders in the investment community we must operate our
business affairs with transparency, and in the light of accurate knowledge.We will
continually keep our Member-Partners informed of all matters that affect the value of
their investment, and do so in a manner that is clear, fair, truthful, timely, and complete.
WE BELIEVE that along with a foundation of unshakable trust and accurate data,
strong Member-Partnerships require ongoing up-to-date information and
education. To aid both new and alumni Member-Partners, we will continually create,
provide, and recommend materials, systems, and services that will help them understand
and differentiate the investment opportunities we offer.
WE BELIEVE that informed Member-Partners can be relied upon to make their
investment decisions quickly and independently when they are presented with all the
necessary facts. To that end, we will present all our investment opportunities
factually, plainly and free of conjecture, opinion, and rhetoric. In this light,Member-
Partners can weigh for themselves the merits of each investment.
CONSCIENTIOUSINVESTING
WE BELIEVE that an honest profit should rest as comfortably on the conscience as
it does on the pocketbook.
WE BELIEVE that having a safe and pleasant place to live, work, shop, and relax is
a form of wealth that no human being should be denied. It is the very foundation of
a vibrant, healthy society, and nothing could be more worthy of our attention.
Therefore we will continually strive to make the properties under our care, rate best
in their class. It is our aim to effect significant improvements to the properties and
thus enhance the lives and businesses of the clients that occupy them; in the
surrounding communities; and, on the environment in which these communities
co-exist.
WE BELIEVE that there are certain tasks that no conscientious investor may shirk.
We must endeavour gradually to bring about such a reconstruction of society that
poverty and its attendant evils shall cease to exist.We must all do our part to ensure
that future generations inherit from us a world that is cleaner, safer, and happier than
the one we know now. To these ends, we will continually invest a portion of our time,
66
our expertise, and our capital in the improvement of human civilization by partnering
with select individuals and organizations whose mission and values align with our
own, whose financial motives and practices are sound, and whose mission is to
sustainably improve the quality of human life.We will empower and encourage our
Member-Partners to do the same.
oh. Found it:
OUR CREDO
A concise statement of our core values
and operating principles
PERFORMANCE&LEADERSHIP
WE BELIEVE in the primacy of the “Golden Rule” and will adhere to it in all our
pursuits. In all our intentions and activities we will espouse this tenet: We will do for
others, as we would have them do for us.
WE BELIEVE that in all things we should be the leaders and not the followers.We
should set the standard against which all others are measured, continually evolving
and seeking to surpass our latest levels of accomplishment. To lead effectively we must
be bold, proud, and above all, free from the fear of making an honest mistake.When
mistakes are made we will acknowledge them openly, correct them immediately, and
look upon each as an opportunity to gain valuable lessons from the experience.
WE BELIEVE that as leaders we must be right-thinking women and men of inviolable
integrity and sound precepts. It is for every one of us to make absolutely sure that
whatever we do, that our words and deeds are rooted in the foremost precepts of
ethics—even when we are our only witness. Let us always go by our word: Let our yes
be yes, let our no be no, and let us make no offer nor promise that lies outside our
domain, or which we know we cannot fulfill.
WE BELIEVE that our word is our bond; it must always be worthy of trust. Any
person who does not keep their word, even though they have given it only by
telephone; one who seeks to evade a contract because of some technicality; or who
willfully misrepresents or outright lies, is reprobate and should be shunned. Such
persons will not be tolerated, and once found out, we will have nothing more to do
with them.
WE BELIEVE that it is our ethical obligation as well as our lawful duty to protect
our interests and the investments we administer.We will prosecute to the fullest
extent of the law any whose willful lies, misrepresentations, acts of omission, or
misconduct cause harm to our Member-Partners, our company and its associates,
or the investments in our care.We will vigorously defend our concerns on behalf of
all those who depend on us, and when doing so, we will retain the best-qualified
professional counsel and legal representation required to guarantee a just result.
INVESTMENTS&SERVICES
WE BELIEVE that investments in real estate are the surest means of creating lasting
wealth, and that the safest and most direct route of achieving this goal is through
syndicated investments in high-return properties.
60
WE BELIEVE that through our syndicated investments we enable our Member-
Partners to secure enduring IntergenerationalWealth.We will continually provide our
Member-Partners with an organized system for managing their wealth across
generations—a framework that will protect and maximize their wealth through each
succeeding generation of their families.
WE BELIEVE that for our Member-Partners to reach their highest goals, we must
offer them the advice and services of in-house and third-party consultants of the
highest calibre. Respected professionals equipped with special knowledge and
experience, will provide our Member-Partners with specific solutions to their
individual needs quickly, objectively, and with complete integrity.
WE BELIEVE that every investment project we initiate must succeed. Accordingly,
we will not engage in any activities that lie outside the competence of our acquisition
and management teams, nor will we begin acquisition procedures until we are fully
confident in our abilities to negotiate, acquire, and continuously manage the property
profitably.
WE BELIEVE that in the sphere of professional investing there is no place for
speculation. Ever mindful of our fiduciary duty to our lenders and to our many
Member-Partners who have committed significantly large portions of their net worth
to our care, we will never risk losing either their invested capital, or their confidence
in us.
WE BELIEVE that compensation should be linked to results. Thus, our remuneration
will be linked to the increase in profit and value we create in our Member-Partners’
investments, the resources we invest in preparing the projects for acquisition, and the
level of risk we endure or alleviate from our Member-Partners by our active
management of the investment.
MEMBER-PARTNERSHIP& FRIENDSHIP
WE BELIEVE that Member-Partnership and friendship with our investors brings
incalculable rewards to all. By inviting new friends to become members with us in
League, and in turn partnering with them by re-investing our capital alongside theirs,
our interests are always aligned. United by this philosophy of positive inter-dependence,
we will reach ever greater goals, confident that we share the same concerns, interests
and aspirations.
WE BELIEVE that with each investment we initiate and each new Member-Partner
that we help to achieve IntergenerationalWealth, we add strength to the fabric of our
free society. Through such proliferation of enduring familial wealth, society as a
whole may be improved as future generations of our families are afforded the
freedom to devote their time and unique talents to vocations or pursuits that they
enjoy, provide personal fulfillment, and through which they may contribute to the
betterment of humanity; and, take it upon themselves to purposefully train up their
children and grand-children to do the same.
Their ‘credo’ and the explanation of their ‘coat of arms’ have disappeared from their website. Does anyone have those documents?
the whole deal is such a crock of horse shit its funny.No astute investor in their correct mind would beleive that crap.I really love the thanksgiving and Xmas messages though.Kinda brings tears to muh eyes( if u know what I mean)
You know and this sounds a little dense i must add when i first joined the league,the blue book sounded kinda a little hookey if u get my jift? and that should have been my first “WHOA” clue
Very helpful, Stuart. I cannot remove any of my posts, as I am not the mod. I think someone needs to do something, and if I can or help others to do so, I will.
I agree with AJ.In my personal opinion League has been my worst nightmare financialy although That lieing POS prime minister and Finance minister come a close second when they ruined the unit trust industry
When I look at my rather large invesment in the league based on what I was lead to believe about each investment,what the original idea was and what they ended up using most of the money for etc I find it rather sad that its all leagle and we the lowly investors are the bag holders.I find it appauling that people are so stupid as to still buying league IPU units.Like they say a suckers born every minute.IF they would have stuck to the original Lp plan that then turned IGW reit I think we could have weathered the storm
I for the life of me cannot figure out how I could have been stupid enough to invest in the league but that is hindsight.My accountant questioned me about the financial reporting methods seveal times over the last few years and I should have paid him more attention but I kept getting those 9+10% checks monthly.Hope the public offering goes better than what I see happening today
In general you won’t be allowed to go on a fishing expedition with unrelated entities during discovery. You should be allowed to cover things like the education and work history of the executives, how and how much they are being compensated, details about litigation with past suits where they were named, litigation with their lawyers, past employees and their management company, why they changed audit and assessment firms and details about any conversations had with regulators, auditors, or other professionals about their business model, marketing techniques, or compliance issues.
When you finish discovery ask for a transcript and then circulate it to the other defendants so that they can prepare their own discovery and see if any answers change.
If it were me I would just remove the posts and apologize but if you are bent on this route then good luck.
ajmbconsulting@gmail.com
sent u a email and brief history
I have searched SEDAR and BCSC under Duncan, Duncan Mall and Duncan LP and cannot find it. Do they have some other name for it?
Its called an investment overview and property profile.Its not filed under BCSC or sedar because it was only available to accredited investors the way i understand things.Give me a email address and I can send you the whole PDF file
*copy
I beleive I have one somewhere and will look for it.I know for FACT the 450K purchase was done over the phone with a sales person and the OM was sent way after at his (buyer)request when things started to go sideways with the DuncanLP. we both read it over 3 times and finally saw one little wee spot where it talks about Indian land. Had this item been declared up front the moneys would have never been invested.Look at the mess its in ? 54 million dollars later and mounting and its at best worth ?? they(gant and arruda) claim 45 million ? I personally sure dont see the value because U dont own the land ?
George, do you have a cope of the Duncan OM?
Thanks, Geo. Noted.
this situation was the original league offering from memory. I know people that put in a few hundred K and they we so mad and frustrated becasue it was a very very misleading OM and League refused to address their concerns and said like they always do. non of the offerings are guaranted and future returns are not indicable of current sort of thing.Just like the Duncan LP. No where in the OM did it openly declare in print big enough to read that the Duncan Mall L P was for”BUILDINGS only'” and the land was owned by indians.That is why as it turns out the deal looked too cheap to be true and as it turns out it failed as far as any LP investor recieving any of the seed money back that IaM personally aWare of.One person I know well, is out 450K onthe Duncan mall LP offering
I am preparing for ‘discovery’. If anyone has anything they think I might be able to have answered during that phase, please let me know here. Thanks
How were they able to advertise + promise over 5 years to pay 10,11,12,13,14% back in 2006/2007 on the original “LP” units and then all they paid was 10% which changed to 7.24% and then nothing.?what is their”legal” excuse to get out of that fiasco beside,s changing from LP units to IGW reit units
Thanks, SL.
AJ, am i able to email you outside of this blog?
I have been browsing the BCSC website for hours, trying to find an AUDITED financial statement for ANY of the entities that League owns, controls or holds interest in. Can anyone point me in the right direction?
I received the disgusting financial 2012 statements for the Duncan LP and they were “audited” by KPMG. who gives two phucks anyhow? Duncan LP is a dead loss for all LP holders so no Audit in the world will recover the 15 million investors lost
If you look on sedar for the League Financial prospectus there are several audited statements in it. What is interesting is that there is no accounting firm name on the IGW or Colwood statements and the 2010 audit for IGW is dated March 2013.
If League plans to trade itself publicly then it needs to make sure that it has a plan for producing financial statements in line with TSX requirements.
Well if you think about things, if everyone gets a 10% or 25% lift then it really means nothing as the % of the total pool that you have remains the same.
yes but not everyone gets the “lift” as u call it? only the recent peopel whom ae dumb enough t buy IPU units at ths stage of the game and my point was people in the know most likely would wonder or are wondering(myself included) why people at this point in time would invest in the league?
Thats the jift of my post.Anyone that knows the league history thus far would never buy a single IPU unit even though their being offered a 25% premium.
that,s my take on things as I see things for now. Who knows maybe the market will
receive the league shares with open arms based on the 5.65% distribution and the bullshit thanksgiving/christmas messages they concought
My guess is that the money is being raised through some class A unit issuances in IGW Public Limited Partnership. My recollection is that these units would be converted to shares when League started trading and would get a 25% premium.
The BCSC website shows about $2.8M being raised in the past couple of weeks.
One has to admit that based on their claims of assett values,values claimed under managment and rates offered and one Not knowing any of the league previous failures and full league story for one to buy a IPU unit for 1.00 and get 25% premium right off the bat I must admit it looks tempting(looks pretty good) to newbie investors
The Harris Fraser group deal was supposed to close March 15th per the initial release. I don’t think that it was a condition to the public offering but my guess is that it helps them raise money overseas now in any event.
I often wonder where all these millions come from these days to buy things such as this harris fraser group never mind pay the 120 employees and exspensive office rents etc
no wonder they cut the divs and retractions.I take it the Blue book was also thrown in the garbage a long time ago? I wonder if that manny guy will send out his normal rediculous self serving thanksgiving message that someone mentioned about on here last year
the stopping of monthly distributions and the installation of quarterly distributions is not a “rumour”.Starting sept30(first payment). Every single IPU unit holder was sent a notification
so really not sure why you collared this as rumour because its a documented fact
Most public companies which pay a distribution on preferred shares do so quarterly so this is no surprise. The problem League has here is optics. With the public listing delayed then some people will start to get worried that this is an indication of problems with IPU distributions.
I dont think nor can see any reason any delayed lsiting would indicate problems with the IPU distributions? My guess is the skewed financial
statements. Here is quote from a new letter that indicates the hold up is in fact about financial statements
Since the vote of the IGW REIT unit-holders supporting the re-organization was successfully received, we have been working steadily to meet the remaining financial statement requirements. We will finish by taking the prospectus through the last steps to get approval and proceed with the transaction. In the preliminary prospectus, we included the third quarter financial statements for all the different entities that are part of LEAGUE Financial Partners. While finishing the year-end audited financial statements for all the entities, we crossed over the first quarter reporting date, so we now also require the first quarter financial statements to be included in the updated version of the prospectus.
While this will delay the transaction date, our team has made good progress to finish the final year-end statements as well as the 1st quarter statements. We anticipate that all the financial statement requirements will be completed before the end of July and hope to have an updated version of the prospectus before the 15th of August. By the middle of August we will have a very good idea on where we stand for final closing date and can provide a further update then.
Will this help them get closer?
http://www.watchlistnews.com/2013/07/09/league-financial-partners-announces-the-acquisition-of-harris-fraser-group-limited/
maybe who knows.I know it wont get back the 15+ million dollars the Duncan LP has lost for the poor people whom bought the private LP shares.Thats the problem with Gant and Arruda ,they brag about good things and try to hide bad deals like Duncan LP. Because as Danny Divetto said once dont worry about it as its other peoples money(name of the movie)
Still haven’t seen any updates for any of the public listings. It may bee very tight getting League Financial Partners trading in July at this point.
from what i know from news releases there behind in the financial statement disclosures (what a big surprize) so I think september is the new target date
The latest rumour is that if you own IPU Units you will no longer be getting a monthly distro commencing with this month – They will now be paid quarterly commencing Sept 30th
jc
I’m sick about this…I have just learned about all this…what is the suggested course of action for someone in the IGW REIT. been told the on;y option is getting shares and selling them when the gun sounds. Will there be anyone to buy the shares? Won’t they just plummet to nothing?
Can someone advise whoto talk to who is impartial in this matter.
Thanks in advance.
It’s too bad that you don’t read things before you react, Mr Jones. Read carefully. Then post. Maybe. I have nothing to cry about. Apparently you have.
yes well its too bad you make misleading statements here also.As bad as this deal looks
KPMG seem to still be totally in bed with the league
Look, I understand the frustration everyone invested in these deals must be feeling, but don’t get angry and accusatory with ME. I have been writing and talking about these guys for years, and if people didn’t perform their due dili, and bought in because of the high ROI, and are not getting their money out, DON’T BLAME ME. If you have questions about XXXXX schemes (and you are invested), it is time to go to the media. There is very little any of us can do about the snails pace of the regulatory bodies in Canada.
As for me, taking abuse for trying to help is over.
no one is angry with you.You posted what sounded to me like you were claiming KPMG wanted nothing to do witht the league ? I said your wrong.KPMG is still doing accounting for the league and they are.
I bought into the league because it seemed like a safer investment than the stock market
The 9% league returns is no better than lots of others.NO ONE is blaming you about anything so quit with the crybaby attitude.
When League first started out they had in their marketing materials that they would give one free half hour session with KPMG so that they could explain the tax implications of the investment. KPMG asked them to retract that from their marketing materials more than 5 years ago. There is a big difference between auditing someone’s financial statements and being part of the program; all I’m saying
All that tells me is KPMG were not interested in giving this service.KPMG I would never use after an experience with them 16 years ago.There not as smart as they like to think they are and charge way way too much
Sorry but that isn’t correct either. KPMG signed IGW’s the audited statements in 2012.
KPMG stopped working with League more than 5 years ago, and asked that they no longer use their name in their marketing materials. Here is an article from KPMG about XXXXX in Canada:
http://www.kpmg.com/ca/en/topics/at-risk-magazine/pages/ponzischemes%E2%80%93howtorecognizethem.aspx
AJ you sir are very very wrong and should not post such BS here, KPMG still does lots of Financial statements on behalf of the league.Iam in no way standing up for the likes of Arruda and Gant but know this! KPMG still does statments for the league
(eg) just out 2012 financial statement for the duncan LP (complete and utter failure profit wise) was produced by “KPMG”
I checked out the link and find it odd that KPMG claim that when low to no tax payable on returns are a sure sign of fraud(bad investment) I say is BS. ROC is a very viable leagal return that most all REIT.s etc employ as a sales tool and in which I love and take full advantage of
Because it is not a Ponzi. IGW and other League LP and REITs pay distributions from operating income, investment income and the sale of properties.
that is true
But: the distributions BY FAR exceed the actual income or gain on sales. The distributions therefore cut deeply into the NAV. That is OK too, if it were shown as such in the OM. But it is not ! The whole point of my initial blog was to show that the NAV is highly inflated. Both the IGW REIT and the Colwood LP make overly rosy assumptions about asset value, as argued by me, but also shown by this blog here http://landlordrescue.ca/league-losses-according-financials/
Other interesting comments here http://landlordrescue.ca/ about League along the lines of my arguments.
Thus, both the Colwood LP and IGW REIT NAV used to raise new money are inflated.
Some investors got out at par as suggested by me in the fall of 2011 which is now almost 2 years ago. Many, likely most, will lose most of their money if the OSC approves the conversion from private firms to public entities.
Perhaps some investors will sue them for fraud, perhaps even the OSC or BC SC. We will see.
Send your comments on the preliminary prospectus to the OSC.
suzie? this is a pretty bold statement:Many, likely most, will lose most of their money if the OSC approves the conversion from private firms to public entities.
what makes you say this?
Suzie? if what you Claim is true? and I quote:
Some investors got out at par as suggested by me in the fall of 2011 which is now almost 2 years ago. Many, likely most, will lose most of their money if the OSC approves the conversion from private firms to public entities.
If Gant and Arruda are this bad how in the world would OSC ever give them a TSX listing? Giving them a listing totaly lets them off the hook for any and all investor repayments? (at least the way you claim things??
what i find really really interesting is I watch MSNBC and they have a program called “American Greed” and in the US when one use,s New money from New investors to pay previous investors their promised returns thats considered a ponzi yet in Canada its business as usual? How is that?
anyone know the answer?
Hello All
I am an investor.
I am not sure if you are doing yourselves much justice. If you all have investments, then you all may be doing yourselves damage with any negative discussion.
I am not looking for any challenging discussions.
Just think of any future investors looking for a place to invest, and they come across this website. If I was this “new” investor, I would be looking elsewhere immediately. The result to a League investor who is trying to sell, is a missed potential buyer.
opps I read that wrong. I was thinking 18 cents based on 10$ share issued price and its on the NAV value of the Common reit units SORRY should read better before ink flows
Also ANYONE whom holds the A preferred get the 5.65% dividend and they will trade on the TSX daily just like any share does.Of course commen sese tells you if u sell the A share u no longer get the 5.65% BUT all IPU holders will still receive the 2 year quarterly top off monies irregardless if they choose to sell the A share
On the other hand the A shares may be easier to sell because of the dividend they will pay and on your other mention You DO NOT have any option as to weather u want 10$ shares or $25.00
shares.Where did u ever see that?any one with the old standard original LP reit shares will only get standard $10.00 non div shares and no cash top off/eos
I believe you are incorrect though I can see why all the info out there is easily misconstrued
I have been told, right or wrong, a 12% top off, and standard original LP REIT get a mix of $25.00 and $10.00, I think it’s an 80-20 split. I believe $8.10 or so nets you back to the $10.00 because of the 12%, however my math might be off
There may be rules associated with having to hold on to the $25.00 shares in order to collect the distro which is why I’ve been told generally pref shares are much harder to sell then common, I agree on the face of things, prefer shares seem like the more stable investment
jc
Yes I got it wrong here is what the web site says;
Each Common Unit of IGW REIT will be converted into 80% Common Shares and 20% Preferred Shares of LEAGUE plus a premium of $0.18 per Common Unit above the statement unit price of the Common Units on the close of business on March 25th, 2013(see page B-6 in the Management Information Circular)
so 18 cents paid cash for each common share taken at time of convertion I guess?
not quite 12% thought more like 1.8%
The only retractions after IGW goes public will be finding someone to buy your stock. If someone is willing to pay more than $10 then unitholders will be happy, if that number is less than $10 then my guess is they won’t.
Harry
I believe IPU holders do not get an option to retract, they are auto converted into $25.00 shares through they get a top off, so they can sell for less and still recoup, though I’m told pref shares are traditionally much harder to sell than common stock
Non-IPU still get an option, you can be converted into a mix of $25 and $10 shares or still stay in line for retraction, in the former case you also get a top off, so in fact you could still sell at $8.50 (or so) and recoup depending upon your level of top off
If I am incorrect someone here will surely correct me/us
However I agree with you, for those like me, holding only common shares, that decided on retraction last June and no longer wish to have our principle locked up in this investment, we
will be quite pleased after the fact if we are finally able to sell the shares at a decent amount and recoup most or all of our principle
On the other hand we will be even more angry and critical of the powers that be than we are today if we end up with pennies on the dollar and or lose a major portion of our principle
No question those like myself who decided to retract last June, instead of signing up for 3-7 years more non-liquidity (by transferring to an IPU) are at a dis-advantage for that decision, both by having our principle earning nada over the last year while we wait in the retraction line and in terms of how our shares are now being converted if and when it goes public
jc
The more I think about the league and the whole going public deal is its going to eliminate any and all retractions which really lets the main players off the hook so to speak
I read on here awhile back one poster saying they would not take stock in trade for IPU units and would wait till the retraction was paid.You dont have that choice Iam afraid AFTER it goes public
we can banter all day long about a vote or lack of one.Its done,its over 3 years ago.Things are a big mess.DuncnLP all lp investors money is gone.(around 15 million)the IPO is going to be rough going especially based on the market and hammering REIT shares in general are taking
The league in General has turned out to be a very very bad investment in my experience and opinion.After going through this tough lesson I seriously beleive we need much better and wiser
watchdogs so outfits like the league have to be more transparent and simply not be allowed to
do things(operate) the way they do and have.
moving to an offshore server won’t help anything. It’s not about the server, it’s about the location of the people making the defamation statements
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2009/dec/11/evony-sues-british-blogger
“Law enforcement and civil plaintiffs alike can send subpoenas to almost anyone or anything connected with your site in a bid to get more information about you. Depending on the situation, these subpoenas can compel them to turn over any and all data they have on you.”
proxy servrs can’t hide you forever. Anyone can be found for a price:
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/identify-anonymous-bloggers-internet-trolls/story?id=12004507
We can all be sure about our opinions, but our opinions are not facts. george said in an a post that the RIET did not hold a vote to limit retractions. It did. So you end up calling Adam aliar. I bet there are a lot more opinions dressed up as facts here. The laws are changing fast. Check this out:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13555_3-9821584-34.html
this one too:
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2011/12/judge-blogger-not-eligible-for-oregon-media-shield-law/
…a New York court recently forced Google / Blogger, as part of a defamation lawsuit, to identify an anonymous blogger. So there is some legal liability to the blogging platform.
…if you’re asking what topics will get you sued it basically comes down to libel and slander. Don’t make stuff up and present it as fact. There are also things which are illegal in most countries, like child pornography and death threats, so, you know, those are no-noes as well.
here’s one from Canada
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/Court-prohibits-Winnipeg-blogger-from-posting-about-local-business-209728251.html
and the guy didn’t listen, so now he’s looking at jail time
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/Shindlemans-want-jail-time-for-blogger-211055021.html
CSO shows a lawsuit against Rachelle Berube who is a real estate blogger. Don’t know if this is the same action or not.
Rachelle isn’t going down without a fight. http://www.landlordrescue.ca. I think she would have been better to remove the offending posts and call it a day. League should have just ignored her and the 3 people who read her blog instead of just drawing more attention to her claims.
By the time this gets to court (if it ever does), this whole chapter will be long over. Either League will bee a public enity and subject to all of the scrutiny that goes alon with that or they will have, IMHO, collapsed under the weight of their own success. Looks like very little new money is flowing into IGW or Colwood.
funny there not also trying to sue the person whom wrote the opening article at the top of this page. I think perhaps because mybe it,s based on facts and does not miline anyone?
Just a observation as i read things here
They are.
AJ If there are legal actions that have been started please provide a link to where and when. It is possible to move the blog to another offshore server and remove all regulation
you dont have to move or do anything.Just dont directly acuse Gant or (sh) arruda of
dishonest or illegal doings.Keep it general and give opinions backed with actual fact,s
right george. like when you said that “there was not vote” in 2011 to limit retractions to protect investors from a run. there was. but you didn’t ask questions, you assumed your memory of it was a fact and end up calling adam a liar. i’m just saying you need to be more careful. if you say something like it is a fact back it up with a link or a source.
There was no vote ever offered to me that I saw.If it was sent to I never got it nor was sent any material asking for me to vote so to me there was no vote that I was made aware of and if there was a vote there has to be a better effort to make sure ALL unit holders are adaquetly informed which did not happen in my case.I never called anyone a liar i simply said there was no vote that i was ever aware of.They should be obligated by law to make sure people eldgible to vote are informed such as registered mail etc
well it was 2011 but why don’t you ask your rep to see if they have any record of sending it to you or at least proof of the vote so you can satisfy yourself
Adam Gant claims that the League changed the retraction rules in 2011 to benefit the investors
Does this make Adam a liar?
Not necessarily
He can claim everyone had a chance to vote and the majority agreed to change the rules
However the question is did anyone really have a clue what they were actually voting on and has the league actually ever have a vote brought forward by it’s BOD in which the motion they wanted adopted was understood to the point where it was rejected by the members?
And when the vote was conducted were the issues of changing the rules of retractions really made clear, or was it just one of a bundle of reccomended changes that passed?
Truthfully, I’d love to see a Government regulatory body investigate the 2011 vote
I’m not saying Adam did not do everything by the book and that the 2011 vote isn’t legal
I am saying alot us didn’t realize the retraction rules had changed until we wanted to retract
I would guess many of the current investors (looking back) wished they have voted no based on the large number of retractions
I would guess many of the current investors feel the change neither benefitted them nor that it was in fact was the primary reason
Many will claim, with or without proof, that the primary reason was to do limit investors divesting from the REIT, should they, say, stop distributing yields
That seems to be the end result, we’re limited, even though we were originally promised a max 90 day redemption
There are hundreds of us who simply want our principle back
That’s not defamatory against Adam, it’s a just a simple fact that ‘his’ rules changes continue to keep our principle hostage
Though Adam will claim it’s ‘our’ rules changes, as disingenuous as that might be
jc
If you go to the BCSC website and look up the IGW historical OMs you will see that redemption cap was established in 2009. That may be why you don’t remember any vote George.
Too bad as the comments here over the past few months have been quite informational. I guess at some point all good things come to an end. If League completes their public offering then all of the information will be in the public domain and you probably won’t need boards like this anymore.
Thanks to you and Suzie for running the site the past couple of years.
agreed except and iam being serious here now.If you actually Name a person and call him names and make it sound like hes a crook and dishonest and whatever the case may be one has to remember that person can try and sue you for deframation.Its one thing to be calling someone out but be prepared to be able to back up your accusations
just saying.just my opinion/take on things
100% agree. I don’t follow boards just to read BS and personal attacks. I appreciate the posts which provide factual information that helps us all make informed decisions. I question the decision to sue the people who run the forums though (if that is in fact what is happening here). Close on down and another will start the next day. Best to ignore and people eventually get bored and move on.
Strategic litigation against public participation (SLAPP) has been defined as a lawsuit started against one or more people or groups who speak out or take a position on an issue of public interest. The purpose of a SLAPP is to silence critics by redirecting their energy and finances into defending a lawsuit and away from their original public criticism. Concerns have been raised that SLAPPs also act as a warning to other potential critics. The effect of SLAPP suits is to discourage public debate.
This blog, and others that similarly that take issue with the way League does business is going to be removed due to League suing (without merit) those of us who post here. There are several different law firms involved (and we all know how much that costs) and several defendants. THIS is not the way upright, ethical, “Do unto others” business people operate. I will defend my right to speak out against what I believe is wrong. Susie, your email address is not working. Would you please contact me soonest.
Again I argue to be Fair both ways it should have been stated that only the reit shares had their distributions discontinued NOT the 108 million IPU shares.Mr Cohen should have converted to 7 year 9% IPU shares back when he had the chance.Thats what people I know did and was for the better. At least they have been getting the monthly distribution and when it goes public Cohen shares are at $10.00(ipo) but the IPU shares are at $25.00,+ get 5.65% dividends,+receive cash top offs for two years +and get X number of commen shares as a bonus. which would u prefer given the choice. either way its not great but the IPU payout convertion is 100 times better than commen reit units at this stage of the “game”
Private REIT’s plan for a public listing raises eyebrows
The Globe and Mail
Published Wednesday, Jun. 19 2013, 5:00 AM EDT
Last updated Wednesday, Jun. 19 2013, 9:20 AM EDT
Investors in one of Canada’s largest private real estate investment trusts have raised questions about management’s timing for going public.
Based in Victoria, with roughly $180-million in client funds, IGW REIT is converting to a public company that will be known as League Financial Partners. But instead of raising cash in the process, which most companies do during an initial public offering, League will simply look to list its shares on the Toronto Stock Exchange.
In some ways, the move makes sense, given what has been – until recently – a hot market for REITs. Prices of REIT units have soared in recent years as income-starved investors have clamoured for dependable sources of yield, prompting the likes of Loblaw Cos. Ltd. and Canadian Tire Corp. to spin out their real estate assets into new public trusts.
However, the timing is peculiar for IGW because REITs typically attract investors with monthly payments, known as distributions, that provide steady income streams. Yet IGW’s management halted distributions of cash on its common units last June and has yet to restore them.
The suspension irked many investors who worried that the REIT was in financial trouble. Those who asked to withdraw their funds were told that total retractions, an industry term for withdrawals, had been capped at 0.25 per cent of the REIT’s net asset value a month – roughly $250,000 monthly based on a valuation when retractions were halted.
Jack Smith, a retired Alberta engineering consultant, invested a six-figure amount with IGW starting in 2008 and said he was blindsided by the halt in distributions. He was also told it could take up to five years to get his money out, based on when he entered the queue for retractions, which frustrated him because he said IGW originally touted a 90-day retraction guarantee.
Adam Gant, IGW’s co-founder, said the REIT changed the retraction rule in 2011 after putting it to a shareholder vote. He argued that the previous retraction rule had the potential to hurt investors. Many of IGW’s investors are approaching retirement age and management worried that if too many of them withdrew their money in a short period, the REIT wouldn’t have enough cash on hand to fund the payouts. “It’s almost unfair for the people still invested,” he said, adding that it could force the REIT to sell assets in a fire sale to raise cash.
It was a desire to help investors to cash out that persuaded management to take the business public, Mr. Gant said. Because IGW is a private REIT, existing investors have to be “accredited,” meaning they must meet certain standards for personal wealth or have other evidence of financial sophistication. Once the company is public, those restrictions won’t apply, allowing the trust’s existing investors to sell into a much wider pool of potential buyers, according to Mr. Gant.
Mr. Smith doesn’t accept this explanation. In October, an IGW customer service agent e-mailed to explain why it would take so long to get his money back. “As I am sure you are aware, the primary method for funding retractions is through new subscriptions, which are again flowing into the IGW REIT,” the agent wrote.
In other words, it appears that the intention was that existing investors could only be paid out quickly with cash from new investors.
Faced with the prospect of waiting years to get their money out, IGW’s investors overwhelmingly approved going public in a May shareholder vote.
“What choices do I have?” said Jeff Cohen, an early investor in the REIT, referring to the vote. “I had to [vote to] go public, because I may never get my principal back.”
Had IGW stayed private, Mr. Cohen said the company only offered him two options: Either join the long queue for redemptions, or invest in a form of preferred shares that locked in his money for five years or seven years.
The latter option was especially vexing because right up to the distribution halt, IGW offered investors the option of short-term preferred units that could be held for six months, one year and three years. After the halt, the short-term alternatives disappeared, Mr. Cohen was told.
The lack of options, combined with the distribution halt and the long queue for retractions, started to worry him. “Our principal is being held hostage, and that makes us think something’s wrong,” he said.
Mr. Gant said he believed a one-year investment was still available for those unsure of what they wanted to do following the distribution cut. However, he acknowledged that most short-term options were removed, and argued that doing so did not stem from a budget issue but rather a move to satisfy investors’ desires. Yields have fallen dramatically over the past few years, but investors wanted something that paid substantial distributions, and the only way to do that was to lengthen the term of the preferred shares.
Yet some investors don’t seem satisfied with the solution. “I hope [this] has a happy ending, but it may not,” Mr. Cohen said.
Globe and Mail ran a editorial today under the headline “Private REIT’s plan for a public listing raises eyebrows”.
Gant was interviewed as saying “the REIT changed the retraction rule in 2011 after putting it to a shareholder vote”
The author writes ” However, the timing is peculiar for IGW because REITs typically attract investors with monthly payments, known as distributions, that provide steady income streams. Yet IGW’s management halted distributions of cash on its common units last June and has yet to restore them.”
BUt its still paying distributions on the IPU units and there are more 26 million more IPU units than commen units.All that aside there was NO shareholder vote and really what person would vote to take away their retraction rights?
Adam Gant is on tomorrow at 7:00 A.M on BNN
Well on your last point things should work out in League’s favour as you can’t short stock held at CDS. Might be a few people willing to test support at $25 otherwise!
I dont beleive anyone whom gets shares deposited into there CDS account will think their shares are ready for sale as the League has clearly told everyone to set up a brokerage account in order to TRANSFER their shares if they want to be able to sell them. Computershare is a very well known and used company so iam pretty sure any Brokerage firm worth their salt will know what to do.Iam a lot more concerned as to what the A shares issued at $25.00 will actually start trading at?? I mean who would buy a $25 share based on mostly BS and thin air ? like realy what is the TRUE BOOK VALUE???????
Direct registration is very rare in Canada which is why many brokers don’t know the process. It is used more often with US listed companies through DTC (US equiv of CDS). My guess is that most people will get their profile info from CDS and then just sit on it thinking that the stock is ready to be sold. One benefit to the company having a lot of stock held at CDS is that it can’t be loaned out to short sellers.
anyhow no sense worrying about how and when people get their shares till after the OSc give the go ahead cause till then league is just blowng smoke out there arse.
Pesonally I just dont understand how they(Gant and Arruda) can borrow money via IPU shares and sign 5 and 7 year 8 + 9 % contracts and at thier whim simply convert to public shares and pay 5.65%
If you get the physical certificate then you deposit it with your broker. You don’t send it back to CDS. Now your broker’s firm will send the certificate in but your shares are on deposit and will be ready to trade in a day or two.
On Monday call your broker and ask him/her how they handle a direct registration. My guess is that most don’t even know and will have to research it first with their compliance group.
Again I disagree..Iam sure any brokerage business like scotia direct are fully aware of compushare,CDS etc and how they operate.these are well established and known transfer agents.I never suggested signing a certificate and then sending it back to CDS?
Iam 100% sure that having a outfit Mail u certificates,you then signing them and mailing to your head office brokerage,then them physically reading and entering them(shares) to your account is a much longer wait time than a simple ET from comp/CDS to your brokerage account.Could be very wrong but thats my take on it
It doesn’t get deposited into you account. It gets deposited at CDS (Canadian Depository for Securities). You then get sent a profile that you can use to access the system. It is faster to get a certificate and then deposit it with your broker in most cases. If you lose your certificate it is a pain to get it replaced so League is right about that.
Ok But I seriously fail to see how having a certificate sent to a person via the mail,then signed and then returned by mail,then opened by a person and then transfered into a electronic trading account is “quicker” than a simple electronic tranfer through CDS
“anticipated to occur in July” Hope it does.
What League doesn’t mention is that the disadvantage of using DRS is that you can’t sell your stock right away. Either you need to first transfer the stock to your broker or you must send instructions to the transfer agent who then pools orders and executes them on a schedule..
Iam certainly no authority at all.but I think your incorrect? the stock once its actual stock is deposited into your account and its tradeable as soon as this happens.I think just the opposite in that the Direct deposit method allows you quicker access to be able to buy or sell.Waiting for a written certicicate,signing the certificate and then sending to a transfer agent and then having them deposit the certificates takes way longer in my opinion
To my point, all filings are posted to http://www.sedar.com. If it isn’t there then it hasn’t happened!
Transaction Update
There is a great deal of work being done to prepare for, amongst other things, the exchange of units of LEAGUE IGW REIT for securities of the new company called LEAGUE Financial Partners Inc. The team continues to work diligently on the preparations towards the transformation event and closing of the transaction is anticipated to occur in July 2013.
We would also like to remind you that if you don’t currently have a brokerage account we suggest you establish one (more information about setting up a brokerage account can be found on our website at: league.ca/transformation). Having a brokerage account will enable you, should you choose so, to purchase additional shares or sell some or all of your shares.
LEAGUE Financial Partners has elected to use the Direct Registration System (DRS) instead of sending out paper certificates to their holders. Securities held in DRS (book-entry form) have all the traditional rights and privileges as securities held in certificate form. Ownership without paper securities is easier and has benefits such as:
Eliminates your risk of loss, theft or destruction of certificates, plus the time and expense to replace a certificate
Eliminates the cost of maintaining a secure place to keep your certificates
Makes your security transactions faster and easier
Saves on unnecessary printing and mailing expenses
Haven’t seen a news release and the exchange website doesn’t show any updates on the prospectus. Yesterday Norrock announced that they were not proceeding with the purchase of IGW seg1 and seg2.
what is Norrock and what is Seg 1 and seg 2 all about
Thanks
Well, hooray for the TSX. They could NEVER do this on any other exchange
Looks like the League convertion to public trading company is a go.Based on there latest news release its all slated to take place in July and they are asking everyone to make sure they have a brokerge account set up and ready
I just noticed Adam Grant posted on May 22. What’s up with that?
Partners announced that they are going to look at internalizing management but it will take time and is not a priority. Most of the staff are now League/ex-League employees so I wouldn’t count on any changes too soon!
AJ Come on that site is pure fraud. They are going to burn your credit and bankrupt the investor. Essentially “Lend us your creditworthiness- become a straw purchaser.” Just bend over and it will feel good
Partners Reit bounced up in price today. The new trustees announced they are going to re-examine things. What happens to the boys if the new directors actually start thinking.
Manny I hear they are auditioning for a new Howdy Dowdy , you look the part without make up.
Manny I hear they are auditioning for a new Howdy Dowdy , you look the part without make up.
Now thats too funny
Does anyone know what this is? http://www.firsttrinecorp.com/Intergenerational_Wealth.html
They spell things badly, they say Intergenerated Wealth, but the rest of it is Manny speak. Just a broker for IGW?
AJ thats one hell of a interesting web site.gotta Iove this part quote:
22% Distribution, Per Annum, Paid Monthly!*
Here is how you can take full advantage of our new IGW REIT into units.
Start off in a special 6-month term of fixed-rate IGW REIT Intro Units and earn a distribution of 22% per annum, paid monthly. That’s tax-efficient cash flow paid to you each month for 6 months.
Then, once the six-month term is up, you can convert to either the 5- or 7-year terms of the REIT’s Income Priority Units. The Income Priority Units (IPUnits) provide monthly income for the duration of the term you choose, and your original capital is returned to you at maturity.
Or, if you do nothing, your investment automatically will convert into Traditional IGW REIT (Class AAA) Units at the lowest price paid to purchase the Class AAAs during those six months. It’s like a unit price protection feature. Based on the price at the time of conversion, you’ll begin earning the highest monthly distribution rate possible (at the current distribution of 7.25 cents per unit, per annum) based on the price at the time of conversion, while also watching your investment grow when the value of the property portfolio increases.
7.25 cents per unit per annum??
Look at it this way, Timbercreek’s security has tumbled in value by $6 million. As I recall the prior trustee’s held about a million shares so they will be liquidating their positions as should anybody else concerned with what Timbercreek will do when its loan is due or if it feels the security is impaired.It was and probably still is a good short position
The value of Partners REIT shares have plummeted since the Trustees have been voted out. If IGW holds 4 million shares then they have lost nearly $6M in value over the past several weeks. That would also impair the REIT value.
It is interesting to note that the Timbercreek security instruments give Timbercreek priority over any judgment that would be obtained on a guarantee. Basically the guarantees are worthless as to the REIT but not to Manny and Gant. This liability should have been more fully explained in the proposed public offering and will now have to be better disclosed.
It is one more reason why the residual value of the REIT is greatly impaired
It is legit. Everything was disclosed in the IGW OM. On page 34 of the most recent version it states:
26. COMMITMENTS AND CONTINGENCIES
(a) Commitments
The REIT has guaranteed mortgages on the properties for the following related entities:
• Redux Duncan City Centre Limited Partnership
• Fort St. John Retail Limited Partnership
• IGW Residential Capital Limited Partnership
• Colwood City Centre Limited Partnership
• Wesbrooke Limited Partnership
• Eagle Landing Development Limited Partnership
These guarantees will remain until the mortgages mature or the properties are purchased by the REIT.
I realize all that.What strikes me as funny is NONE of these LP ventures are any part of IGW reit.They are stand alone LP ventures.I never realized the IPU money invested in IGW REIT was being secretly funneled into these LP ventures and all these LP ventures also had tons of private investment money via LP shares sold to forsee each LP venture.
makes it even harder to understand how they can then take IGW reit and convert it into public traded shares and have these shares share the risk associated with PRIVATE LP ventures? the exception being Colwood as its included in the proposed IPO
In many cases Adam and Manny are using IGW and their shares in Partners to guarantee mortgages to related entities like Redux Duncan. The loans that have been guaranteed by IGW are listed in the IGW OM. TCC is suing IGW presumably because IGW has guaranteed the mortgage / loan. If IGW is owed $17M by Redux Duncan and they cannot collect on the debt then presumably it will have an impact on the value of IPUs and common units.
OK I personally dont see how they can use shares owned by other people to guarantee loans that they take out on a stand alone LP venture?Duncan LP is NOT part of the league venue thats trying to go public. IGW reit owns the par shares not Adam nor the actor? I wonder how that all works and if its leagle?
IGW is a party to the lawsuit along with Adam and Manny.
correct but like I said.The fact that IGW is owed 17mill by Duncan LP has no bearing on the lawsuit.InFact I really have no idea why this outfit has listed IGW? its really Adam and Arruda that borrowed the money through the convaluted league system.? but maybe seeing as they controll IGW with all of it private investor money through the sale of reit and IPU units the mortgage company is listing anyone they think they may be able to get money from
I checked the last IGW OM and it states that the Redux Duncan LP owes IGW $17M+
so what? has nothing to do with the lawsuit we are talking about. Redux Duncan LP also owes private investors whom bought LP share,s 15 millon which I doubt will ever be paid back
From what I have heard, League paid Oakcrest to settle their lawsuit so you might be correct George. The Duncan LP documents are not public but I am pretty certain that TCC and Timbercreek are different. TCC has loaned IGM $2M but it looks like that was repaid last year.
This is what happens when \mortgages and loans are guaranteed by related parties.
Can someone summarize what the Gateway Property lawsuit is about and how much is claimed and the same for the TCC lawsuit? Is TCC Mortgage related to Timbercreek? Is the shortfall that TCC is claiming on the mortgage going to be that difference of 54 million owed versus 40 million value?
who know for sure?I would say that they must be the main mortgage holders( more than one)there first inline otherwise they would not start a major lawsuit because no matter who does what,the one first in line is always the first inline.Besides this could go on for several years so really a lot about nothing.Just a tactic to force gant and arruda hand in my personal no real knowledge opinion
Two new lawsuits showing up on CSO. https://eservice.ag.gov.bc.ca/cso/index.do
Looks like 3 IGW entities are suing Gateway Property Management which the Blue Books states manages all of League’s properties. TCC Mortgage Holdings is suing Adam, Manny, IGW REIT LP and the Duncan City Centre LP
not a surprize someone sueing Duncan LP.All the Duncn LP unit holders have lost the entire 15 million they invested so far.The 10% distribution was stopped about 8-9 months ago .Duncan mall is worth around 40 million and debt last time i looked was at about 54 million and mounting.
Thomas i hear u loud and clear and iam not in any way sticking up for the likes of Arruda and gant
especially (arruda) but there is construction going on there on a daily basis
“BUT” its like the Duncan mall (small potatoes compared to colwood) the mall turned out brilliant
but investors are losing 20+ million dollars.A very very good friend of mine lost over 400K so far in the Duncan mall so iam not just blowing smoke out my ass here on these statements
Anyone watch the CNBC show called American Greed” Interesting show tonite about a guy called
Phillp Barry whom ran a busines called “the leverage group” he got away with things fo 30 years
hes now in a US federal prison.It was all about real estate investments real estate developments
The fraud is not by them but by the people who sold the investment. The purchasers were given a bill of goods by the investment advisers. Nobody of any intelligence could sell these deals as a conservative investment. Colwood, the basis of the whole empire is a massive speculation. Once it stalled all else failed due to ongoing accumulating finance costs.
BUT Colwood is not stalled and is progressing at a pretty good clip according to latest news release?
Colwood was stalled for at least 4 years and they paid interest for four years burning most of the shareholder equity.Now the investment is being reorganized and everybody gets about 20 cents on the dollar. Tprofit margin on sales will never recoup the lost equity. Gant as much as admits the stall:
While this project was purchased just prior to the credit crisis, which was difficult for many development projects at the time, this project being especially large took longer to re-plan. The re-design was needed to achieve a phasing program that would allow the the overall zoning build out to be constructed in much smaller chunks with distinct classes of real estate in each phase (residential, retail, office). After rebuilding the development team in house and completing a wholesale redesign of the project we began the final development permitting process and started site preparation work. After spending nearly a year moving the RBC retail bank branch which came with a number of special banking legislation requirements taking more time. Along with the rest of the demolition of the old buildings as well as the site clean up and primary general contractor selection, we were still at place where the market was not fully ready to advance the project to the construction stage.
Hello League Members and League watchers, It seems as though there a number of unanswered questions that many of you have and it appears as if some participation in this forum on my part going forward could help to provide further insight into the current plans and work that League is focusing on and why.
We are going to become more active within the blog communities that are interested in our company while adhering to the compliance regime that we fall under as a exempt market dealer and reporting issuer in the case of the activities related to Partners REIT. We realize that the required offering memorandums, prospectus, management information circulars are quite long and full of lots of detailed information including the now converted IFRS financial statements that are not always easily understood.
It may be helpful if in addition to the questions that come up – we also provide more background on the objectives that we are working to achieve with any given project.
There are many points above to cover and it may take a number of days of posting to review most of the ground but there are further results in plain english that can be shared.
First it looks like there are questions on the preferred shares that are part of the IGW REIT-League Financial Partners Transaction.
The preferred shares have a 5.65% dividend paid quarterly on the $25 face value that they are issued at. We chose this dividend rate as it is higher than many of the other preferred shares issued over the last 18 months and as we are hoping for market acceptance we saw this as the best approach.
For any one that has an IPU, they will receive 100% of their IPU value in preferred shares. In addition to the preferred share total there is additional cash “top up” as well as additional common shares which are issued to the IPU holder all up front on the closing of the transaction.
The cash top up along with the additional common shares is used to equalize the benefit of the transaction across the large variety of IPU classes and maturity timelines. With the large number of different types and lengths of term to maturity we needed to create a formula that could be applied to everyone the same way to arrive at the calculation for their participation in the outcome of the transaction.
Both the common shares and the preferred shares will be free trading upon closing for the IGW REIT IPU holders and the common unit holders.
While we are working to achieve a positive outcome for the common unit holders we also want to make sure that the IPU class holders are positioned well in the transaction.
There will be further posts, this is just a start.
Adam Gant
It’s nice to finally have your post in this discussion.
I think that you would have a hard time proving fraud. Two young guys came to town and promised huge returns if people would entrust them with their money. They did the best job that they could and $300+ million later here we are. If anybody read the 300 page OMs then everything that has happened has been outlined as a risk factor. I haven’t heard anyone claim that Manny or Adam misappropriated any funds or did anything illegal and I would be very surprised if it did happen. No law against making bad business decisions and being overly optimistic in marketing.
The one thing investors still have going for them is that the markets are hot and interest rates are very low. Perhaps the lads can still pull a rabbit out of a hat but it isn’t getting any easier as time goes on. I think that next few months will be key when we see whether they get replaced as managers of Partners and if the public offerings actually move forward.
Can we imitate legal action? If there is fraud then the owners personal assets can be seized.
They can be jailed.
I kept my units for what its worth. TO me this is a a loan now. No?
U mean initiate.U kept your IPU units? Iam not a total authority here at all but I dont think thats a good position to take.If u take prefered shares you get quarterly interest payments plus quarterly cash top offs(for 2 years) plus bonus shares.Your unit,s stay stagnet till they have enough cash to pay u out and no interest will be paid in the menatime and it can be 2-3 years or more
its my undersanding that if u own IPU units you will receive A prefered shares when and if the securitys commission allow this deal to go forward.You will not have a choice
You cant keep your units.U will be issued A prefered shares on any outstanding IPU units you held.No if ands or buts.Its not your choice once the yes vote was cast EOS>
The reason why this is not in the media is because this is not a simple story. It takes hours to weave through the different companies and events and put together the complete picture. Journalists don’t have time to do that anymore. They will wait until (if) enforcement action is taken and then they will simply report on that action.
Going to the media does nothing. It makes me think that either they are afraid of being sued, or they can find nothing illegal to report.
the media, can at the very least add a voice, and represent a community of people that are displeased and shortly broke. Lawsuits are not a concern, the last thing League would do is pursue anything in court as they would then open themselves, their books, and everything else up to the courts, law officials and legal teamst for review. That is not something they would do–trust me, being reviewed, questioned and exposed to public inspection is the last thing they would do. There is loads to report on, the media has reported on less.
This fear and communal protectionism of the group at League is insane. Everyone complains, knows they are in trouble, know one does anything, its like your all related and only fight/worry and complain around the family dinning room table. This needs to leave the inner circle of League member partners, and gain a voice thats not internalized, I am telling you this is going to be disastrous if you don’t get aggressive and demand protection, change and legal authority.
i worked at League inthe very early stages and left as soon as I realized the lack of moral fibre the leadership tea, displayed. They always gave less than a crap about its clients. I can’t believe the unit holders, are taking this and staying silent. There should be massive public outcry, utilize media, whatever you can to shine a light on these two thieves. When this hits the TSX, losses will be massive and the time too have protested will have passed.
League is full of untrustworthy, misguided, unskilled and uneducated advisors. I came from Toronto, from a bank run brokerage house too Victoria, then League to find uneducated, uncaring, unaware advisors selling product to people. Unit holders must support the removal of Adam Gant from managing the IGW REIT, sign the blue cards, not Gold. Go to the streets and media–expose the sham that is taking place, if you don’t there really is no one to blame but yourselves.
Makes sense. NOBODY would buy 5yr pref shares from League for a 2% return. Heck you can get a 5yr GIC for better than that! Did you friend say for sure that he was getting class a and not class b pref shares?
I already told you in previous posts that there Type A prefered and I have no idea about any “5 years” so cant comment on that issue.If U own IPU units of 5 and seven years U get Prefered A $25.00 shares plus 5.65% interest.U also get a certain number of regular shares @$10.00 as a bonus ,plus u get a cash pay back every 3 months for 2 years which I beleive is the difference between your IPU rate and the 5.65% the A share pays
Latest news.A friend of mine whom is heavy in IPU units called me today and said Adam himslf says the 56 cents is a “TYPO error” and In FACT the A prefered shares will pay 5.65%
The annual dividend on the preferred is only paid if the company makes a profit. If they bleed the company as has been done in the past deals, there is no profit to pay the any preferred dividend. In other words expect to receive nothing. Currently the businesses run at a loss and once the income stream from the management contract at Partners REIT ends in 6 months if not sooner, the loss only grows.It does not really matter when shares can be traded as there is no income to support share value.
The so called income stream from the management contract At Partners REIT has absolutely nothing to do with the current convertion of IGW and IPU units into public trading shares.The Preferred share promised dividend is obviously linked to available cash no doubt.The share deal could be a bust or could be viable.I have seen many gold mine stocks sell for Big$ all based on market hype and promoters BS
Grizz,
The circular filed with the exchange says that the distribution on class a pref shares is $0.565 per year. That is not 5.65% as the issue price is $25 not $10. There is no distribution on class b shares.
If you have something different fine, just saying what is filed. Policy 3.2 of the TSE filing and disclosure requirements states that the hold period on newly issued shares is 4 months less a day. If there is documentation from the exchange saying otherwise again fine.
Not arguing with anyone, just pointing out what things say.
Yes I saw the .565 cents annual dividend.I was told 5.65%.Iam in the process of finding out whats for real. 4 months maybe true ? but thats a far cry from Thomas saying 5 years Although again I was told point blank NO trade restrictions?
My quote above showing how IPU unit holders are to be treated comes from page 6 of the circular distributed by league which clearly says 5.65%??surely thats not a misprint? as people were asked to vote using this information?
Although it does not appear gant or arruda have any scuples or conscience left so who knows
Would you be able to post a link to the circular, or copy / paste it here?
A preferred shares will pay 5.65% based on a $25.00 share and will be free trading with no restrictions upon deposit in ones tradng account.IF these shares fall to say $15.00 then your return will be around 9.25%
If they fall to $15 and then you buy them at $15, otherwise you are still getting the 5.6% return on your oriignal $25 cost base.
Stuart Little says:
July 12, 2013 at 11:29 pm
If they fall to $15 and then you buy them at $15, otherwise you are still getting the 5.6% return on your oriignal $25 cost base.
OF course you would have to actually purchae them at 15$ Iam pretty sure everyone understood what I meant.
With respect to the IPUs, the IPU Consideration has been calculated to reflect the following: (i) the issuance of Preferred Shares (with an initial interest rate of 5.65%) in an amount that is equal to the face value of a holders current IPUs, (ii) the payment of a “top-up” (in the form of a Note) in an amount equal to (a) the face value of the relevant IPU multiplied by (b) the difference between the interest rate on such IPU and the interest rate on the Preferred Shares for one month for every three months of outstanding term, and (iii) the payment of additional consideration in the form of Common Shares, with the number of Common Shares calculated to equate the value of (i) and (ii) above, to the present value of the holders original IPUs using a discount rate equal to the initial interest rate on the Preferred Shares plus a 10% increase.
Looks like a proxy battle is happening within Partners. Partners is saying “On several occasions [League] has brought forward proposals whereby the REIT would purchase properties held by its affiliates or other entities in which Mr. Gant is involved, As the REIT grows, it has to pay more and more money to the external manager [League]. It also has to pay things like acquisition fees that are embedded into the management contract. Every time Partners buys a new property, it has to pay League 0.5 per cent of the total cost of the deal
Links to relevant articles on Partners REIT
http://www.newswire.ca/en/story/1159723/partners-reit-issues-proxy-circular-highlighting-benefits-of-internalizing-management
http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/partners-reit-announces-management-change-tsx-par.un-1756653.htm
http://ca.linkedin.com/pub/tony-quo-vadis/12/478/648
http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/partners-reit-announces-senior-management-changes-adoption-advance-notice-provisions-tsx-par.un-1776366.htm
http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/igw-nominates-four-trustees-to-the-board-of-partners-real-estate-investment-trust-1786881.htm
There is definitely a divide between the Board of Trustees and IGW. Each is putting up their own slate of trustees. Also note that the CFO left for “personal family reasons” and started at new employer a month before announcement went out in February (see article and LinkedIn). Might be something, might be nothing… who knows.
In regards to Partners REIT, note one director resigned and Adam was repositioned.
It is natural that Partners wants to bring management in house because it will separate from the IGW Reit shortly.. The Timbercreek Credit Facilty which grants security on the shares in the Partners Reit to Timbercreek as well as encumbering all equity in the IGW Reit properties will permit Timbercreek to sell the Partner Reit shares anytime there is a default.(probably occurred) Currently IGW owes Timberline about $30 million.Liquidating Partner Reit shares pays down about $22 million of the debt. Timberline then can pay down the remaining $8 million by selling IGW assets. Basically IGW will end up with about $22 million in assets versus the $90 million investment leaving investors losing 75% of their investment as of now, the balance to be lost shortly. The new structure of converting everything to a public corporation means no more redemptions and no more payments to investors. The preferred shares which are not redeemable for years only pay dividends when funds are available which will be never. Gant and Arruda can be highly paid managers of the corporations plus pay all other expenses from revenue.
The shares of the new company will trade for pennies while they live off the revenue. Bravo to them.
Colwood Corners will be separated into a new public entity with the only debt being the current construction mortgages.
You are very wrong on a lot of your post.Mostly I will correct your BS on the prefered shares.The prefered shares are free trading as soon as they hit the market and the dividend goes with the share.Also to note there is a cash payout to IPU holders paid quarterly over two years on top of the prefered shares they will receive.The cash payout is small around 4% but better than nothing.
Grizz,
There are two classes of preferred shares (page 109-113 of the prelim prospectus). The series a pref shares pay a quarterly dividend of 2.25% per annum. The series b do not. You cannot redeem either series for 5 years although you can sell them in the public market if you wish. Usually there is a hold period on new issues to existing investors but I haven’t seen the document you refer to.
My account manager told me that there will be no hold period on any of the shares given to existing investors as part of the conversion, common or preferred. Everyone is free to trade them as soon as they get them.
Does anyone know if a business reporter is following this story? Is anyone here willing to talk to a reporter about the issues being raised about League Assets and its affiliates? I’m going see if I can get someone interested in the story – maybe they can shed some light on the issues. If you’re interested in talking, lemme know. missarahk01@gmail.com
The email from League said that the vote went through in favor, overwhelmingly.
does anyone know if there were enough yes votes on Friday to allow these shiesters to go forward with a public offering of the league?
It does have an impact as League invested IGW funds into Partners so as a common unit or IPU holder you own a piece of Partners
yes thats true but LLAC was being paid the management fee.The only return that IPU holders see is the monthly distribution that PAR.UN pays and firing Gant will not effect the distribution payments.Anyhow I seriously fail to see how in any way the firing of Gant as manager of PAR will have any effect on our IGW or IPU shares
Firing Gant may make the distributions of PAR.UN increase!
however one looks at this deal or views it.It really in the big picture has buggar all to to with us reit and IPU share holders other than its further proof even the PAR.UN BOD and trustee,s dont trust Gant any longer
As well as all the ancillary fees for refinancing, or whatever they can dream up
Thats gotta hurt the cash flow
how in any way would that hurt cash flow? and what cash flow are u refering to?
My guess is this would be for management fees that League receives from Partners REIT in return for their management services. This revenue source will now end.
Wow,
Looks like Partners REIT is giving notice to League to remove them as the manager. Apparently “conflicts of interest” was a concern.
http://web.tmxmoney.com/article.php?newsid=59924419&qm_symbol=PAR.UN
The League Financial Partners preliminary filing documenets show CC being rolled into the new entity.
Hi Candice, i put in my request last June or July, I think.
Manny just sent me an email threatening ‘action’ against me for my posts in here. Grasping at straws, imho. And Dean is absolutely correct. Who would underwrite this convoluted mess? I drove past the CC center today…looks like work may have stopped? P.S. Manny…bring it on.
The CC is not part of the proposed public share reit/IPU convertion
NONE of the seprate LP projects are as I understand things to be included.
whats weird about that is there all listed as example,s in the public share prospectus
OM. the other weird thing is all the financials are old 2011 stuff etc.
AJ ? how can the actor(arruda) threaten legal action when he himself is not a stand up guy? too funny I say(his threat to u)
Manny claimed at the dog and pony shows last week that all of the negative comments on the internet have been posted by a small handful of individuals he used to work with who have a “hate on” for him for some unknown reason. He also indicated that one person in particular (my guess is suzie1941) has been warned several times and is about to receive official legal action.
I say that where there’s smoke, there’s fire. People don’t normally develop a hate on for no reason, and most definitely not a small handful all at the same time. Wonder if I’m going to get a threatening email now too! 😀
I’m in the industry and needed to do due diligence on them. I have researched them intensively. My other insights are from the way the financial world works. For example, it is next to impossible to create an IPO without an underwriter. Too many things don’t line up for what they say they are trying to do. My previous message may have come off crass… my apologies. I do feel for those that are not able to recoup their investment – I think that what Manny and Adam have done/are doing is dispicable. I do hope that karma comes back to destroy their lives the way I fear they may have done to many Canadians lives as they got rich on the backs of others.
The issue price of $10 for common stock is a bit of a joke in itself. My opinion is that it i a bit of a ruse to get people to think that it is a lift over the $1 issue price of REIT units. It is obvious that 1 common unit will not equal common share.
I can’t understand why they are tying in the Cayman and Hong Kong entities. None make any real money and revenues have been dropping.
Wow… it doesn’t matter what they set the “price” of the common or preferred shares at. The only way you will be able to sell them is on an exchange (if they actually list it) and then the market will set the price you get. This is why everyone here is saying you will get pennies on your dollar. The company that they will create does nothing but lose money – do you think investors will pay a lot for this type of company’s stock? Best of luck guys! I hate to break it to you, but when this goes through (and it will – the vote is a farce becasue Gant and Arruda control the board of trustees) anyone holding these new shares, common or preferred, will take a massive haircut. Sorry guys but you have been legally (kind of) ripped off!
Dean? you may be correct in some ways.what is your involvement in this situation and what makes you the expert in what will or will not happen with the league.You talk(post) like you know everything and have all the answers and i,am ever so curious as to what your credentials are in regards to the league?
Thanks
Grizz
Here is some good information on detecting fraud and scams from the BC Securities Commission:
Fraud awareness: http://www.befraudaware.ca/
Identify con artists: http://www.befraudaware.ca/identify-con-artists
Fictional video series on how con artists work: http://www.befraudaware.ca/fraud-watch
Anyone considering voting no here? Seems to me we do have some power if we band together. This whole process has been way too rushed for my liking, and I feel like the timeline has been intentionally set so that we investors don’t have time to do a proper analysis or get together and make plans of our own.
League needs 2/3 of the votes present or by proxy on Friday in order to go public. For every unit that votes no, they need to find two more to vote yes. If you don’t want this to happen, your vote is worth double those who do – most notably League’s management who are strongly urging us to vote in favour. How about we all band together and vote this down? Doesn’t mean they can’t eventually go public, but we could insist on better information before we let them do so.
I am not submitting a proxy yet as I think I want to attend the meeting and read what is going on in the room. Anyone else thinking of going?
Page 375 of the prospectus states that Ithe net assets of IGW REIT are $46 million.
The way I see it, most people want out and the only way out now is to go with the IPO and hope that the shares dont tank. If they go public, they may attract other investors and existing ones can exit with hopefully not too big a haircut.
That is simply not true.
They could sell all assets to show what the true net asset value is. Likely pennies on the dollar, if any.
The IPO is yet another smoke and mirror attempt to complicate things and raise more money to pay oout earlier investors.
This is a classic damned if you do and damned if you don’t scenario. If you read the recent filings IGW has about $45M in shareholder equity assuming that they can realize all of the money that has been loaned to non arms length entities. Read a little further and you will see that League admits that it is unlikely. There is no short term likelihood that anyone will get their money out of IGW and $29M in redemptions are already in line.
If you roll the dice on the IPO then there is no certainty that you will be able to sell your stock at a price anywhere near what you bought it at and there will be no dividends at all for any of the common share holders. Even worse, I have seen lots of situations like this where shareholders sell for pennies on the dollar out of frsutration only to have the stock purchased back by the very people that set up the compaany in the first place.
It would be one thing if Adam and Manny were feeling the pinch like everyone else but it seems as though that isn’t the case if the stories of Adam’s $10M house on West Saanich road are true.
actually in the IPO prosectus there claiming 310Million in equity.as far as redemptions go.I agree there is non available at this time.If you have IPU,s your in a lot safer(whatever that is) situation than if you hold reit shares that is fact. commen share,s are $10.00 as the circular shows as i found out by reading and the prefered shares are 25.00.If you were offered IPU units for the reit shares back when they stoped the reit distribution you should have took them as they hold prefernece over the reit shares but as you all know your all dealing with what turns out to be a real bag of scum bags.
I only have a few grand invested so its not too bad but I have heard people have 200 or 300k with these guys
Grizz for what it’s worth. I voted No. I’m of the old school, in that a man’s word is his word. I will wait for manny and Adam to step up and deliver. Perhaps I am naive, but I want to give League the benefit of the doubt. I’m glad I only invested an amount I could, if i had to, walk away from without it tearing me up and making me loose sleep. This investment was for my kids. Looks like I was sold a bunch of BS. Again, if it sounds too good to be true, it usually is.
I just endured the BS video Manny and Adam posted regarding the REIT transformation.
http://leagueinvestment.ca/league-igw-reit-transformation.
As a sales and marketing professional I am amused by Manny’s blatant intent to continue to manipulate the facts and recreate League as the victimized saviours via some pathetic story telling. The piece about how they watched as their Dad’s were conned by insurance salesmen had me laughing. Seriously guys, then you take it one step further and reinforce your integrity with regards to your “credo,” honour and word. Classic storytelling right here folks. The down on their luck victims, gaining a powerful skill and then setting out to transforming an opportunity and provide wealth and salvation for everyone around them. Clever marketing and used throughout every decent tv soap opera and screen play out there. If you understand the archetypes like I do, you’ll understand the outcomes or the direction of the narrative arc. Throw in some mumbo jumbo financial facts and it sounds solid right? Look it works. We all bought into it..
My beef is with the ‘bluebook” and the credo and the “integrity” of your word that you blatantly continue to pitch. Seriously boys, if is your honour is to be found in your word, in your trust, into the fidelity and fiduciary responsibility of receiving our money, then step up, be transparent and let those of us who are patiently waiting for our retractions receive what is owed. If other investors want to roll the dice and join in the opportunity of the IPO then good luck to them.
I do not. I bought into League for my children as an alternative to the pathetic returns their RESP’s are generating. I now realise this investment is not going to get past 1 generation let alone “intergenerational”. I invested into your honour, trust and fidelity pitch Manny and Adam.
Now it’s your turn to be the men you said you were when you went and did your Moses retreat and founded the “Blue Book!” Nothing more than empty words between Blue pages right now.
Stop obfuscating the facts and transform the intangible into the tangible. Show us your word and your trust mean something by delivering on our retractions. I’ve been patiently waiting since July like everyone else. It’s time to pay up!
Elaho.As u most likely read what i said you know i agree 100%.Its dumb investors like jeff Cohen that kill me.Hes mad in one way and praises the scum bags in another way?
manny is so full of dog vom its make,s me ill.seriously ill.Your rant on getting retractions is going to fall on deaf ears as there is no money for retractions nor do they have to give you any nor will u get any so forget that idea.Iam voting yes on the share offering as i think it is the only way out of this contest of lies and deceit.
Question for JEFF.If you buy a 3% 5 year GIC from the royal bank and 1/2 way through the royal bank says sorry we changed our minds as the interest rates have changed would u still say oh geez guys I guess thats just business?Your words here and I quote:
I have no issue with changing distro just like a bank changes interest rates, at all times the distro % was fair, and similarily higher than normal market returns – Nor do I have a humungus issue with the decision to suspend distro, that’s business, no different than having to stop issuing dividends .
So you signed up to receive 10% then 11 then 12 then 13 % on your 2005/06 LP units and now you receive nothing and your sticking up for these guys?
your not smart with money my friend with that type of thinking.
I invested with the league Because I beleived all their CRAP.The wealth intergenration,the blue book, the fancy Xmas and thanksgiving cards, and then came the changes and the KPMG book keeping fiasco and then the 11% stayed at 10% then it droped to 7.24% and then 0% and the way of evaluation and all the fees and on and on and on.
Grizz – while I understand and share your anger towards League, I don’t think it’s helpful to name call. Everyone with money invested in League is in the same boat, and rather than turn on each other, let’s try to problem solve together.
If going public, common and preferred share price will most likely going down sharply given the situation as I see it …
I just came across this website/thread
I am an ‘original’ investor in the league dating back to 2005/2006
For years this was an incredible investment, my principle went up considerably, and the payments came regularily, regardless of the changes in distro rates
Being an original investor, the prospectus I was given claimed an automatic 90 day max redemption rate, course when I attempted to redeem, I was told there was a vote in 2011 that changed the rules to a min monthly redemption, and so I’m in the que like everyone else – lol
I do not hold a grudge vs the League for stopping distributions, I understand why they did so!
My biggest complaint is how they have treated their long time ‘original’ investors – They seem to have prioritized paying out IPU’s over anyone in the REIT, not cool, and the whole scheme is all about getting you not to redeem, instead trying to convince you to switch from the old REIT to an IPU, not cool – Even worse, knowing this, they LOWERED all the IPU rates days before they stopped the distro, that IMO was unethical, and an more ethical co that wanted to keep their long time investors would have insured you had access to the pre-May 2012 IPU rates, which included short term IPU’s which they also unethically removed from the IPU portfolio, again days before they stopped the distro, it all comes up smelling like a ponzi scheme that is doing everything they can so you will never see your principle again, which is so far removed from the guaranteed 90 day redemption I signed for in 2005/2006
The fact that their website, which previous to June 2012 had so much information on it, and was east to access regarding your investment and or share value, has been off-line, and then lacks all the pre-June 2012 info is a huge huge red flag
For these reasons, I am no longer interested in keeping any investment with the league, that’s great if they go public and that allows us to sell our shares, but at this point I could not reccomend this investment to anyone
I’m more than happy to share my league stories, good and bad, with anyone and everyone who wants to network about trying to get pur principle back, jc@collectiveconcerts.com
you were not pissed off at the fact they offered 10-11-12-13% in 2006 and then only paid 10% and then down to 7.28%?? To all of us that should have been the biggest warning sign of all.I must admit the blue book and its lies bug me as much as the thousands of dollars I lost in the league Scam
I’m sorry if anyone loses money period but actually I have no issue with changing distro just like a bank changes interest rates, at all times the distro % was fair, and similarily higher than normal market returns – Nor do I have a humungous issue with the decision to suspend distro, that’s business, no different than having to stop issuing dividends – My issues are more about transparency, and changing rules – My prospectus claims a 90 redemption – When I tried to redeem, I was told new rules came into place in May 2011, to me that’s UNETHICAL, ditto prioritizing redemptions of IPU’s over COMMON SHARES, and eliminating all the short term IPU’s days b4 stopping the distro, so yes it all smells PONZI and doing everything possible to force you not to redeem, which is why I just want out now, and why last year when I had the option instead of retracting the shares to an IPU, I declined and am waiting retraction but I am told there’s 8.2 million ahead of me
Again anyone who wants to share information I’d be glad to do so, jc@collectiveconcerts.com
the distributions did not come from the business, the came primarily from new investors !
Peter pays Paul .. and now both Peter and Paul lost all their money !
the distributions did not come from the business, they came primarily from new investors !
Peter pays Paul .. and now both Peter and Paul lost all their money !
the investment never was good. It was just excellent marketing. But that is what yoyu expect from an actor like E Arruda. The distributions came primarily from your own money and from new investors. How is this a good investment, even in 2006 – 2010 ? Peter pays Paul, then both Peter and Paul get new names – several times – and all money is gone while the BC SC and OSC stands idly by and even the auditors get duped.
The final act: total investor loss.
Bravo. A great Canadian play.
I disagree
If you get your principle back you end way ahead than the standard return
For those whom have successfully redeemed they will be up
However if you do not get your principle back that’s a different story
Then I agree with you
In this case I also the past returns/distro were really paid from your own money
But slamming the league does not deal head on with the present issue
Is it better to leave the funds to be redeemed at 95% or less
Or roll the dice, halt the redemption, sell your shares on the public market
What gets us all out quicker
What offers the better return?
jc
From what I have seen, League has 3 public company applications in under Oriana, Norrock and League Financial. They are also circulating a private offering as well. It doesn’t appear as though any of the public offerings have been reviewed or approved by the BCSC or OSC yet. From what I recall, all of the entities share at least some directors and have overlapping transactions.
According to documents filed with the BCSC, retraction requests have increased by $9M to $26M since July of last year. There is no suggestion that anyone has been paid. League OMs have stated for years now that League has the right to enforce a retraction limit of $50K per month and maintains no reserve fund to deal with redemption requests.
On an IPO, existing shareholders are typically prevented from selling their shares for a period of time. The IPO price is rarely the same as the market price 4-6 months later when the locked up shares become free trading.
If you want out then the best thing to do is put in a redemption request. At least it gets you in the queue. Whether League is more viable as a public or private company is anyone’s guess although I find it ironic that they claimed for years that being private gave them big advantages.
hi guys, what was the outcome of the meeting please? is it on the web? if so, link please.
ps. like most of you here, i did put in a retraction for half my investment in the REIT common shares, which i received a couple of months ago. so I’m not too alarmed about them paying, it might take some time.. However i am worried about he REIT going public and the impact it will have on the common and preferred shares. I suspect with the number of people wanting to sell, the share price could drop drastically and lead to significant losses, perhaps in the short term or forever……
Kam – when did you put your retraction request in for the amount you were paid out a couple months ago?
keep dreaming. the equity is zero or close to zero.
Sorry . I meant Tuesday Night.April 23 2013
Meeting in Edmonton tonight . All league members should be there. 7pm at the McDonald Hotel
I got into this mess several years ago through a couple family members who were really happy with how their League investments performed. I didn’t do my due diligence, or pay attention to the “too good to be true” returns, and invested a modest amount which I can’t afford to lose. No need to chastise me about that – I totally know where I went wrong.
I put my retraction request in 7 months ago, miles behind all the people who bailed as soon as distributions stopped, and I have been feeling quite certain that I will never see a dime of it.
I am relieved at least that League is no longer sending me unsolicited emails and letters explaining how the retraction process works and asking me for my continued patience. Even more than that, I appreciate that they are no longer trying to tempt me into removing my retraction by warning me that if the unit price goes up, I will not get to enjoy it as my retraction is locked at the current price. Hmmm, and then when the units were revalued, they went down. Again.
So you fellow suckers out there, has anyone reviewed the fluff piece that was emailed out today and done any calculations yet? It all sounds like a shell game to me, but then I probably shouldn’t be trying to do financial analysis at midnight. If I hadn’t already been convinced that I have lost my investment, I am now. Anyone who watches the video and is not alarmed by the pitch, well, hey… would you like to buy some League REIT units off of me?
The video is advance information from a SIX HUNDRED PAGE prospectus that we are supposed to have reviewed by an independent financial advisor and return our proxies by APRIL 30!!!! And which won’t arrive in the mail, by the way, until next week. Are you serious? Seems to me that they are trying to pull another fast one like they did last May when they adjusted the cap on retractions. But hey, like Manny says,it’s our chance to “participate in the transformation!”
Respectable investment companies don’t run Google Ads. I mean COME ON!
One small bit of information I got out of them is that they have (supposedly) paid out $4 million in retractions since September. I suspect that none of that has been for the IGW REIT.
If you have any information that might be helpful, it would be great if you could post it. I’m trying to figure out what I can salvage, if anything, and how best to do it. Presumably we have to approve the “transformation”, but would voting it down change anything? Damned if I do, damned if I don’t I suspect. That, and even if voting it down would help, I’m afraid their “slick” video piece will fool the more gullible of the lot to send in their proxies. I guess they must need a minimum number of people to vote hence the sales pitch.
League also has an office in Vancouver and Toronto
Is this article about League Investments out of Vancouver?
League Assets is based in Victoria, BC on Vancouver Island.
I have asked for my money back. They keep saying my retraction is in the queue for processing. Is there any hope at all of getting my money back?
League IGW has a choice of selling the Partner’s REIT units they own, or selling buildings. It is a choice not to repay you, as per the OM, and they chose to exercise their rights under the OM.
As stated in my earlier blog posts in September 2011, the IGW REIT’s unit value is highly inflated in my opinion as the huge debt on the Colwood project will liekly be uncollectable, as it is in priority far behind first and second mortgage lenders with high interest rates.
Look at the Colwood OM at the website bcsc.bc.ca to see the extensive over 100,000,000 debt on Colwood with just a hole in the ground to show for, and very wek, if any, presales on condos.
A bad investment in my opinion.
Get out if you can.
You are fooling yourself if you believe League’s products are good investments.
I’ve been trying to redeem my very small investment for the past 9 months. I submitted a retraction notice well in advance and now the term has lapsed and I still haven’t received my money.
They are “selling assets” to free up cash to pay people out…this is the same story I’ve heard for the past 9 months.
if you’re keen to invest, please do so, as this is probably the only way I’ll get my money out…
Sounds familiar, doesn’t it…I invest and can’t redeem until someone else put their money in…what’s that called again?
Grizz… have I got a deal for you then… give me $100,000 and I’ll pay you 10% for 9 years guaranteed! After nine years you will not be able to get your original investment back… I call this the IPU scam. Now I know why people are still invsting in this joke of an investment!
The issue with the IPUs are that you can’t get your money out as the OM clearly states. If you are happy re-investing your money and believe that at some point League will have the funds to redeem the units then it may be a suitable investment for some people.
The LPs were sold at prices between $1 and $1.17 prior to the change in distribution policy this past June. They are currently being sold as low as $0.79. There are very few people that made decent money on the LP units even when you take into consideration the distribution that occured.
I think the league IPU units are very good investements. Should be little downside/.I think the LP units are risky as some have paid off handsomely and others have suffered.I personally think the blue book is all smoke and mirrors but thats my personal opinion.Overall the league has more upside than down
I held out till the end of the term for my IPU’s and I got paid – granted it wasn’t within a few days but it was about 90 days later. i didn’t want the fee for early withdrawal so i just waited til the end.
Kam,
This is from the most recent League OM.
Retraction Restrictions
The retraction rights summarized above, and more fully described elsewhere in this Offering Memorandum, are subject to monthly caps and our ability to allocate sufficient working capital to fund such retractions. As of July 16, 2012, there were $17,335,416 in pending REIT retractions, consisting of $13,267,876 of Common Unit retractions, $1,153,954 of IPU retractions pursuant to the IPU General Retraction Right, $1,329,586 of IPU retractions pursuant to the IPU Anniversary Retraction Rights and $1,584,000 of Convertible Unit retractions pursuant to the Convertible
Unit Retraction Right. Additionally, there was $3,728,627 in pending IGW REIT LP retractions. there are currently insufficient funds to meet existing retraction requests. See ITEM 8: RISK FACTORS.
Has anyone gotten their money out yet?? Has anyone manage to cash out the IPU’s which had their terms expired since the dividend cut announcement? Also there used to be a login button on the league.ca website, which no longer seems to be there….anyone know what happend to that? i’ve written to league and my rep but never heard back.
If anyone in the same boat as I am – waiting to get my money back – wants to contact me at jds@tnc.com we might come up with a way to move this thing along. It just boggles the mind that they can stop distributions and still operate as if nothing is wrong!
A new OM for IGW was just released a few weeks back. There are now $21M in retraction requests outstanding. Doesn’t look like anyone is getting their money back any time soon.
When the Duncan LP was looking shakey last Fall.
My letter to them quote:
Where does the money come from
regarding the losses on the the Duncan deal?Do they just keep borrowing money against the project? Why does Adam not reply to my emails?Iam quite concerned
REPLY quote:
the rental losses were the result of
> tenant vacancies during the redevelopment period. We are
> in the process of finalizing the remaining tenant leases for the
> entire project. The project will likely be rolled into the
> IGW REIT in the first quarter of 2012.>
> In the last couple of months we have renegotiated new terms with
> the native band that holds the land lease for the project.
> The new lease has changed from an escalating land lease to
> a lease based on net revenue, which is favourable to project. In
> addition the native band has agreed to allow the mortgage
> payment to assume priority over the land lease payment, which
> should allow us to receive more favourable refinancing terms on
> the project.
I was told the exact same thing ? must ahve been a form email sent out
Not that I know of but Iam pretty sure they are Honouring the 6 month 10% Income priority introduction units.I am getting burned BIG BIG time on the Duncan LP.I had asked last November why it was showing a 5 million loss and what was happening and AllGant and the Emanual did was lie about things.Iam worrid sick about the whole deal(league)
Has anyone recently (in the past 6 months) submitted a retraction request and received their money back?
I have tried to get my money out of League by filing out a retraction form. They said I was on a 2 year waiting list. However, they never tell you where you sit on the waiting list and they constantly change their story. You can’t believe a word they say. No, I have not been able to get my money out and I doubt that I ever will.
Rochelle
You should be able to call your League Rep up and get a straight answer as to where you are on the list – if not ask to change reps – Problems with the entire league aside, I have always found their staff helpful – Some of them have also invested and share our problems – Unfort many of us invested with a liquidity of a 90 day redemption – In May 2011 they claim to have held a vote that changed the redemption rules (In the IGW REIT) to avoid a run on the bank – On this forum I have suggested that the vote contravenes the original OM but did get positive feedback on this so for now I guess it was changed legally, clearly Adan n Co forsaw that they would not have the cash to pay out redemptions loooonnng b4 we figured it out
The contact for retractions is Siobhain Phagura, or at least it was when I was in the queue. She was always quick in replying to my requests for udpates on where I stood, and would tell me what number I was in line and how much total money was ahead of me. Her email is:
Siobhain.Phagura@leagueis.ca
I agree that the staff themsleves were generally very helpful, with the notable exception for me of Jacqueline Raman-Nair. I asked to be assigned a new “Wealth Manager” and was.
We actually don’t believe there ever was a vote, and Gant has never been able to prove otherwise. Yes, it was in contravention of the OM.
Looks like Duncan LP is going the same route almost.The 10% is through August 21 and Mall is being sold to pay creditors only.LP holders will own 27 acres of development property
I have 50K there, half with Colwood and half with IGW.
These guys apprenticed under Alan Pratten another real estate developer cum scam artist. He ripped me off for about $15K. I have been ignoring warning signs, thinking that they really wanted to be different. It seems they may have just been bigger scammers than Alan.
A third rate former actor and a property manager with many lawsuits does not fit the image of a successful management team.
Adam schemes and Manny writes. A great tag team. Brilliant marketing.
Have they ever pulled off any development project anywhere successfully ?
Looks like someone has gone and had every copy of Manny in Glitter removed from youtube.
Hmmm.
Glitter wasn’t that bad a movie!
I guess someone didn’t like the link to the youtube posting!
Here is a better link with higher resolution video.
Manny is at 6:44
I don’t understand when you say it’ legal, If the value of the assets are deliberately overstated, isn’t that fraud?
Sue,
You were asking in another forum about media interest in your articles. If you can track down 5-6 people who are having difficulty redeeming units then you will likely get interest on that basis (in addition to helping people get their units redeemed!)
You can probably still redeem your units but there may be a discount applied for early redemption.
gotcha – i got my two investments confused and the one I was looking at isn’t redeemable yet. I must say that despite my attitude, they were really nice about it.
Matt,
You need to check the offering memorandum in place at the time you subscribed. The redemption times and limits have changed a few times over the years. What reason is League giving you for not allowing you to redeem your units? If the reason sounds inappropriate and you are sure that you may redeem your units, then a letter written by your lawyer may be helpful.
I just found this because I’m invested with League and they don’t seem to be to receptive to me leaving – do you know a way to get my investments out? could you email me at mattstevenson02@gmail.com and let me know how i can get my investments out?
you have to contact League. Some investments, such as the IGW REIT LP units can be redeemed at any time or with some lag, but others, like the Colwood LP cannot.
Read the offering memorandum or subscription documents you have received.
there in lies a problem.LOTS of small time investers were sold LP units without being given a the offering memorandum or Investment overview documents
which is totally against BCSC law
Emanuel Arruda was a successful actor before he joined League with more than a dozen TV shows and films to his credit. One of the more popular films he worked on was Glitter with Mariah Carey. Check him out as Martin in this clip. http://youtu.be/MrMBbV_v9Iw
His full profile is at http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0037466/#Actor
Who cares – what does that have to do with the quality of this investment?
None at all. Lots of companies use professional actors to pitch their products. Don’t know that many people knew that Emanuel was an actor.
lots if you have any idea of whats going on and what the author is trying to tell us
If u cant see the worth of the comment then your not very smart at all
Interesting that you consider an equity extra a successful actor.